America the Beautiful

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V's picture
V
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America the Beautiful

i have been reading this site for over a year. I have spent well over four decades dealing with these issues 

and preparing myself for a life un-American. ( I don't have a 3/2 2 car garage home, have never lived in a subdivision

do not have 2.2 kids, never owned a stock, never had an IRA don't have a tv etc.) I spent my life acquiring skills 

which would enable me to provide food and shelter without having to depend on the government and the banks.

I have traveled extensively and lived in SE Asia

Of all the places I have been I have never found one that was more suited for the life I wish to live than my home America.

This country is uniquely blessed (still ) with a wealth of resources.

As the video "Blue Gold" illustrates water is the real key to the future. This country is for the most part extremely well endowed

with water.

I am not only surprised but amused to read al the doom and gloom here on this site. Many here seem to admire those who are contrarian investors.

Well imho there is no better investment than America. A piece of this country that will enable you to live a life of plenty (food, water, peace,

contentment) is right at your finger tips. It is there for a song.

I am quite sure the Amish and the Mennonites are scratching their heads wondering what all the fuss is about.

America is all about opportunity and always has been.

So I guess in response to the  question can this be turned around ? Why bother? that is driving a car looking in the rearview mirror.

There is no better place to do your dream than right here. You just have to have a dream  is all

 

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Re: America the Beautiful

While I appreciate the tone of your post, I think it is a little bit unrealistic for most.  

I have frequently thought "if the whole US economy comes down tomorrow, the rain will keep falling, the sun will still shine and I will be able to plant things to feed my family".  But I, like most, still have the mortgage, and other financial issues dragging me down.  I have everything I need on my property to be self sustaining, except the bank owns the property.  And really, after that, the county owns my property (property taxes).

I think if we all had four decades to prepare with the information we now have, things would be a lot different.  I'm almost 40, and I've prepared enough over the last couple of years to lessen the blow, but will not be unscathed if our economy collapses.  I just have to think that I have a leg up on 99% of society who doesn't even really know that there's a problem.

My main focus now is continuing preparation.  But more importantly, to teach my kids a better way from the start.  I don't think one could orchestrate a better situation to teach the pitfalls of financial irresponsibility than the one we are witnessing around us in real time.

d

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Re: America the Beautiful

I share putaforkinUS's opinion.

I'm 47, wife and two kids. I no longer have the luxury of just worring about myself. Which is good and bad. I don't think I would want to live just for myself. I love being married and nothing beats having children.

My concern is for them and everyone in this country like them. But I also know that wealth and power corrupt everyone and everything they touch. You can own land, set up a self sufficient life but still have many threats that could overturn all you have built. Imminent domain could take your self sufficeint lifestyle and leave you with worthless fiat currency. Your taxes could increase four fold with no work to be found and no gas to get you there if you found it. What about illness? How much money will you need if you get really sick? $500,00? A million? I work in healthcare and I can tell you first hand if you get really sick, even with insurance you can blow through a million dollars in less than 2 years.

V. There is a lot to be afraid of out there. It isn't gloom and doom. Its just life.

 

V's picture
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Re: America the Beautiful

I am not suggesting any one path. I am suggesting not looking in the rearview mirror and that this is 

really a great opportunity in so many ways. There is no need to go to another country. We have it all right here.

on my other post I recommended joel skousen's website. he has ideas for a number of different living situations.

joelskousen.com. He is a great resource.

What ever path  you are on whatever you perceive to be the future , whatever you need to do to take care of your family that is for you to decide.

There is a wealth of things you can do in this country that are not possible in other places. As i said we are a very resource rich country. It might take a good deal of thinking outside the box but that is the fun part and where the adventure lies.

I wish you all the best

V's picture
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Re: America the Beautiful

I hear you. I would suggest you get away from this site for awhile. There is nothing but doom and gloom here. Fear is a crippler.

There are only two emotions in the world fear and love. You have a choice each and every moment to pick one or the other.

You are here for a reason. It is no accident you are johnny oxygen here on this planet. Why are you here? What is your dream?

Live it do it and don't look back. There are no guarantees just opportunities. You are in the best place you can be at this very moment.

This moment is all you have. What are you doing with it?

The Dalai Lama once said there is no point to worry. If there is a problem that has a solution there is no problem just find it.

I there is a problem with no solution it is folly to worry about it.

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Re: America the Beautiful

Thanks for the post V, I appreciate your perspective.  

America is beautiful and I'm very grateful to be an American.

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Re: America the Beautiful

Don't forget community. You are much stronger with a group of like minded individuals who can share resources & skills. On line groups are a vast source of information but a local group is required for hands on activities.

Still like our chances here in Canada. We have an abundance of all the resources that will be in demand. Depending on the stress of future events nation states may break apart. James Howard Kunstler discusses this in his book "The Long Emergency" as he looks at the effects on different regions within the USA. Things look grim for both the Southeast and Southwest. Kunstler sees a possibility of the old Union states and Ontario joining together.

The bottom line as always is that knowledge is the key. Prepare yourself and anticipate the skills which will be required in the future.

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Re: America the Beautiful

V nice positive way of being & nice post. Just a couple of things IMO I don't beleive this site is just doom & gloom. If so it doesn't sound like you would even be here. Also it is nice to see people that have a great life without the 2 to 3 car garage & minus the 2.2 kids but I for one have enjoyed the heck out of mine & am not a slave to it at all. I hope it lasts forever but if it doesn't what the heck it was fun while it lastedSmile!

You are right this country is a fanastic place with resources like few others. I just wish the people where happier & smiled more like I see in Central America.

 

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Re: America the Beautiful

"V" - I appreciate what you are trying to say, sort of, and to a point.   I do think you are mischaracterizing this site and its inhabitants to an excessive degree and I think you are missing the main thrust which is that it is possible to be both realistic and optimistic. 

This site lives in a much grayer zone than "this or that" but some people, possibly "V" among them, see the need to live in a more binary world.  Are you a Dem or a Repub?  Are you left or right?  Are you an optimist of a pessimist?  "Everybody here must be the same way..."  Etc and so forth. 

I happen to be none of those things and it turns out this is a complicated site filled with sophisticated people.  I am, as always, an ever changing and evolving person with no set or defined views that fit neatly into the usual boxes portrayed on the box.  I suspect most here are somewhat the same as me.

I'm intrigued that someone could spend a year here and not understand that this site is about seizing the day and the opportunities that await.  A key facet of making the most of any situation is seeing it clearly.  This site is about seeing things clearly.  If those things happen not to be all rainbows and unicorns, well, that's just life sometimes.  I fail to see how you can assume that one cannot hold a dream and see things clearly at the same time.  Strange, really, because the key to creating the future is holding a clear vision of what you want it to be.

This is a great country with great people and I am working very hard to keep it that way so I reject any miscaharacterizations, such as those of "V" that miss the mark so widely, that this site is about "doom and gloom," or this or that.  Our mission and our vision is far more nuanced than that.     

By way of suggestion, if you ever find yourself in a room full of people and arrive at the conclusion that everybody in that room needs to change besides yourself, then you are probably at the wrong party. 

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Re: America the Beautiful

America is the greatest country in history, if greatness is measured in wealth, opportunity, and freedom.  But Americans also use 5 times the energy and natural resources per capita compared to the rest of the world, supported by massive credit from the rest of the world too; that is not something that is beautiful about this country in my opinion.  Gloom and doom is just an attitude or mood that one decides to feel within themselves or not, and I don't.  I am actually more energized and empowered every day as sites like this have helped me to be to become more of actualist. 

V's picture
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Re: America the Beautiful

'then you are probably at the wrong party"

Is that an invitation to leave?

By way of suggestion read the daily digest. Then get back to me about doom and gloom.

Or read the psychology of climate change thread.

Or perhaps the definitive firearms thread.......what need of firearms?

Ihave shared this site with many people and the overwhelming response has been it is very

much a doom and gloom site.

One of the four agreements is to not take things personally.

I don't consider you your site.

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Re: America the Beautiful

V,

While I would agree with your perception that many people on this site are expecting the worse, Dr. M has made it clear on many occasions that he is optimistic about our future. So your criticism of him is severely misplaced.

The function of the Daily Digest is to provide a contrarian take on the news for a balanced perspective. There is plenty of "blue sky" news in the MSM if that is what you seek.

Personally I'm here because last year's crash in the stock market was a unique event. I had never seen all financial assets fall in price simultaneously, so in my search for an explanation I concluded that it must be a macro-economic phenomenon, thus I ended up here.

From the nature of this post I must conclude that you have been reading too many of DamnTheMatrix's posts. While I wouldn't suggest that you ignore his posts because he is a smart guy, I would suggest that you take them with a grain of salt so to speak. LOL

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Re: America the Beautiful
Great_White_Mudshark wrote:

Still like our chances here in Canada. We have an abundance of all the resources that will be in demand.

I've often thought about this.  One thing about having abundant resources is that others will covet those resources ... others that have more military might and manpower ... like Russia and China.  I wonder if Canada have the capability of defending itself if not for the US intervening?  The Russias are already claiming a large portion of the Arctic seabed.  How does Canada propose to keep Russia from extending their claims even further? 

V's picture
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Re: America the Beautiful

It never ceases to amaze me how threads get hijacked.

I appreciate your response Jeff.

But I never criticised Mr. Martenson.

What his mission is and his vision is fine. What  he posts here is his business.

That being said most of what is posted on this site is on the forums. Very little in percentage

comes from him. If you want more info from him you have to go to the aid area of this site.

. I just wish people would not cherry pick one sentence or word 

and instead look at the context and totality of what is said.

To get this back on track, there has been much discussion of 

how bad things are in this country on this site. That is a fact I hope I would not have to defend that statement.

The object of my post was to point out that i believe we are in the best place to 

deal with any eventuality in this country. We are in possession of some of th ebest farmland in the world.

We are blessed with more than adequate water in many places. We are not over populated, etc. etc.etc.

Each of us has great opportunity here that is unique to this country........period.

As for Mr Matrix. it has been mostly his posts that have turned the people off that 

I have recommended this site to. It is not only his negativity but his bashing of this country.

 

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Re: America the Beautiful

V resources are all fine & good if they are ours to use. Bad management is what it is BAD. If we can not use these resources because it has been made illegal by bad management or we have to give them away to pay for our debts again from BAD management how does this help us? Should we just default on our debts? Hope this doesn't come across as too negative LOL.

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Re: America the Beautiful
V wrote:

I hear you. I would suggest you get away from this site for awhile. There is nothing but doom and gloom here. 

Disagree.  I find hope and help here.  YMMV.

Viva -- Sager

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Re: America the Beautiful
V wrote:

By way of suggestion read the daily digest. Then get back to me about doom and gloom.

Or read the psychology of climate change thread.

Or perhaps the definitive firearms thread.......what need of firearms?

Try the Homesteading thread.  The alternative medicine thread.  Try the community building thread.  Try the definitive humor thread.  

or  What Kind Of Food Did Your Grandmother Make?

or  Food Storage, Lessons Learned and Recommendations

or  The importance of paying it forward

or  The Definitive Tool Thread

or.....

Viva -- Sager

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Re: America the Beautiful

Here's a quote I love that may help illuminate the misconception of gloom and doom.

WE ARE SURVIVALISTS

He who fails to prepare for the night, fails to prepare for the dawn.

I am a survivalalist and by nature a survivalist is an OPTIMIST. I do nothave one pessimistic bone in my body. If what I just said sounds odd to you then you are not yet a survivalist and you do not understand the modern survivalist at all. It has been very difficult to communicate to the public and the mass communications media, the concept of an optimistic, hopeful survivalist.

A fireman is a fireman, not because he believes everything will burn, but because he believes much can be saved. Doctors don't believe in death, they believe in life, and a survivalist is not a survivalist becuase he beleives everything must be destroyed and everyone must die, he believes that life and freedom can be saved, if people of good will are prepared. A fireman does not start fires, a doctor does not make disease and a survivalist does not make disaster.

Crime, disease, war, revolution, fire, flood, periodic financial collapse and famine are the results of nature and the nature of man and unfortunately are not within the power of anyone on this earth to prevent.

We all know that the sun will set each day, leaving us in darkness and we all know that warm summers give way to cold winters and that we can do nothing to keep the sun from setting ot the cold winds from coming, does this make us pessimistic? I think not! So then why is the survivalist called a pessimist when he makes ready to face events that are just as much part of history and nature as the sunset and changing of the seasons.

Another misconception is that survivalists are predicting world disaster. On the contrary, we seem to be the OPTIMISTIC MINORITY that is predicting world survival. We are hard pressed to find any well recommended historians, economists, political scientists, sociologists or military strategists that can come up with a scenario that gives even a fifty-fifty chance of avoiding a large scale catastrophe, yet we survivalist dare to be OPTIMISTIC about the future. We survivalists do not need to predict the probability of disaster anymore than we need to predict the sun setting.

Those who critize survivalists, are like men who refuse to look at a calendar, in the hope that through self-imposed ignorance they can keep from aging another year.

"You survivalists will be disappointed if we don't have a world cataclysm", here is another accusation that is pure B.S. and I could not think of a milder phrase to describe it. We survivalists have loved ones we don't want to see hurt or killed, we have homes we don't want to see destroyed, we are not fools to think that just because we are suvrvivalists a world cataclysm would be fun for us or the we would not experiance danger, loss, hunger, injury, cold or even despair and death.

We have spent time and money to improve our chances for survival and recovery from disaster, but we would have a great celebration if some day we could be assured that we had wasted our time. No, we will not be disappointed if there is no disaster to survive, anymore than the Red Cross is disappointed when there are no floods and storms or the man who buys an insurance policy is disappointed when his house fails to burn down.

It may be said that the survivalist would much prefer the pleasant (but unlikely) surprise of being wrong to the (probable) deadly rude awakening that the nonsurvivalist will face if he is wrong.

So, you see the survivalist can not lose because his survival preparations will be of value regardless of what the future has in store. In time of crisis, those who have not prepared to turn to each other, will turn on each other.

It is most regrettable indeed, that many people consider survivalists as a threat and regard them with suspicion and even hostility. This attitude is logically indefensible and is rooted in the nonsurvivalists own sense of fear and guilt. Subconsciously, the nonsurvivalist may hate the survivalist for reminding him of how fragile his lifestyle is. Now, let's get the facts turned around right. THE MOST DANGEROUS PEOPLE IN AMERICA TODAY ARE THE NONSURVIVALists. Every person who has not made provisions for surviving without food, water, fuel and other essential needs from the outside, is a mortal danger to his neighbors.

What will a man do when he and his family are freezing, hungry, thirsty, sick and starving? He may ask or beg his neighbors for help, but when they have no extra fuel, food, water or medicine to give, will he just go back home to die with his wife and kids? What do you think? We survivalists who stock up on food and other supplies, now do a favor to society because what we now buy is replaced on the shelves so there will be that much more available in an emergency. We survivalists won't be looting and killing for food. We won't be a burden on the medical facilities or a danger to the police. Since we will be able to turn to each other, we will not need to turn on anyone and we may be able to help at least some.

Survival preparation should be regarded as a social obligation, one that every individual owes to his family and community and his nation. The nonsurvivalist is simply a poor and irresponsible citizen.

So the reality is, that survivalists are optimistic, self-reliant individuals, who cannot help but see the imperitive of preparing for the worst possible events, while hoping sincerely, that they won't happen. Today's survivalist is an asset to his community and to the world and should be proud to be called SURVIVALIST.

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Re: America the Beautiful

Gungnir writes:

"Survival preparation should be regarded as a social obligation, one that every individual owes to his family and community and his nation. The nonsurvivalist is simply a poor and irresponsible citizen."

My friend, I believe you fail to appreciate that 'survival' means different things to each individual.  Where you have made your case eloquently, I could make another, and another, etc.  Each person who contributes here has a different view based on their own life experience.

I do agree with you that most people can not understand the survivalist's perspective.  You are to commended for living out your beliefs, something very few have the courage to do.  But how about those who refuse to allow time to measure their lives?   

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Re: America the Beautiful
Gungnir wrote:

Here's a quote I love that may help illuminate the misconception of gloom and doom.

WE ARE SURVIVALISTS

He who fails to prepare for the night, fails to prepare for the dawn.

I am a survivalalist and by nature a survivalist is an OPTIMIST.  (etc. -- content snipped)

I found this li'l essay a coupla days ago, and printed it out.  (I have an ever-fattening folder of printed-out pieces I've found on the net...just the best stuff...some of it is informative [so I print it out in case of net outage] and some inspirational [so I can share it around in my social circle]...)  My wife found it lying about and read it.  I figured she'd be dismissive (she's still on the early side of acceptance re 'The Next 20 Years'), but to my surprise and pleasure she thought it was rather good.  She dug the idea that prepping is the act of an optimist.  

Once again, I get tutelage that the key in all this upheaval is perspective/attitude, i.e. -- is it The End Of The World?  Or the Dawn of a New World?

Viva -- Sager

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Re: America the Beautiful
anarkst wrote:

Gungnir writes:

"Survival preparation should be regarded as a social obligation, one that every individual owes to his family and community and his nation. The nonsurvivalist is simply a poor and irresponsible citizen."

My friend, I believe you fail to appreciate that 'survival' means different things to each individual.  Where you have made your case eloquently, I could make another, and another, etc.  Each person who contributes here has a different view based on their own life experience.

Nice to see you back anarkst.

You my friend fail to recognize that survival is not defined, each person defines their survival differently according to their morales, ethics, and beliefs. Anything else is not survival, I don't believe survival is the extension of life, I believe that it's living how you want to live by your own terms.

YMMV

Wink

JAG's picture
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Re: America the Beautiful

Here is some Holiday Cheer for you V Laughing

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Re: America the Beautiful
JAG wrote:

Here is some Holiday Cheer for you V Laughing

 

JAG,

Thanks for sharing that. It is cute.

 

Ken

 

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Re: America the Beautiful

Gungnir wriites:

Nice to see you back anarkst.

You my friend fail to recognize that survival is not defined, each person defines their survival differently according to their morales, ethics, and beliefs. Anything else is not survival, I don't believe survival is the extension of life, I believe that it's living how you want to live by your own terms.

Thank you.  It's nice to be back.

Living life by your own terms?  As I have mentioned here previously, I am a doctor and have always been fairly alternative.  Over the years, I have had many patients comment on how wonderful it is that I have take this 'radical' path.  And although it is nice to hear, I tell these people that 99.9% of everything that happens in my office is not determined by me.  There are many, many layers of guidelines that insure that the health care provided is "standardized.'  There are many reasons for this, but I bring this up only as a metaphor for life itself.  What kind of control do you really believe you have over your life?

When it comes down to it, you must live within the limitations of nature itself.  Individually, you really control a minuscule portion of your life. This is why there is really so little difference between any of us.  That is not to minimize your choices, but only to suggest that the real difference between any of us lies only in perception.  

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Re: America the Beautiful

OMG!

What the heck is it with the Gloom and Doom tag.

I suppose in 1937 when people were warning that this Hitler guy was up to no good they were gloom and doomers. Or the many voices who warned, years ahead, of the 1929 crash were gloom and doomers. I suppose when howler monkeys sound off about predators they are gloom and doomer too. Sheesh people should we all fart sunshine and rainbows?

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Re: America the Beautiful

Johnny like they say the truth always hurts.....

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Re: America the Beautiful

Johnny like they say the truth always hurts.....

Yep. And for some reason people don't want to feel any pain any time ever. I suppose thats very Keynesian.

Here comes the truth train...hang on.

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Re: America the Beautiful
ao wrote:
Great_White_Mudshark wrote:

Still like our chances here in Canada. We have an abundance of all the resources that will be in demand.

I've often thought about this.  One thing about having abundant resources is that others will covet those resources ... others that have more military might and manpower ... like Russia and China.  I wonder if Canada have the capability of defending itself if not for the US intervening?  The Russias are already claiming a large portion of the Arctic seabed.  How does Canada propose to keep Russia from extending their claims even further? 

The Arctic dispute is among all polar nations and is to be settled legally based on scientifically verified findings. You are correct that others will covet the resources. In a global economy many countries have large investments within Canada including the Chinese who are already buying into the oil sands. A resource grab could draw hostile responses from many countries with large investments to protect. Canada is also part of larger alliances such as Nato whose members would not want these resources to be lost to the Chinese or the Russians. It is unlikely the US would allow Russian or Chinese armies to occupy a border with the continental United States. In future the US may not be the predominent military power so may no longer have the ability to stop Russian or Chinese armies. Canada on its own would be at a dramatic disadvantage but the Russians and the Chinese have previously both been turned back by much smaller countries such as in the Russian Finnish war http://www.smilespedia.com/finland-be-afraid-be-very-afraid/.

You are not knowledgeable about Canadian military history. We are a country that tries to find consensus but when given no choice have always produced well trained armed forces that fought with a ferocity second to no one. The resource wars have already started but have until now involved non aligned countries. If it really hits the fan in years to come then obviously all bets are off. At present though, under NAFTA rules the US has access to our oil as if it were American owned. In a world of peak oil it would have to be a pretty impotent US to allow the Russians to seize Americas energy security. Many scenarios could be played out depending on just how bad the international situation deteriorates. With luck cooler heads will prevail.

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Re: America the Beautiful
Great_White_Mudshark wrote:

You are not knowledgeable about Canadian military history. We are a country that tries to find consensus but when given no choice have always produced well trained armed forces that fought with a ferocity second to no one.

I wonder why you presume I don't know about Canadian military history?  As far as I know, you don't have any evidence for making this assertion and if you did, it would be fallacious.

With all due respect, almost every country assumes their armed forces fight with "a ferocity second to one".  Have you ever heard a major country ever claim its armed forces don't fight well?  That being said, without the security provided by the U.S., Canada would be in a much more tenuous position with regards to protecting its resources.   

 

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Re: America the Beautiful

Still unconvinced about your historical knowledge but will let that go.

Canada has always worked as a middle power through alliances (such as NATO, Commonwealth) & negotiation. We have a vast country that would be hard to defend in all areas at all times but if we are talking resource wars there would be specific targets such as the oil sands. With globalization and peak oil many countries have invested billions in the oil sands and the list continues to grow longer. Major investors now include Norway, Korea, the UK, Netherlands, France, Italy, China the United States and Japan. A resource grab by another country during a time of critical energy shortages will likely provoke a strong response from some of those countries as well.

Agreed, Canada would be in a more tenuous situation without the US but again that is where alliances come in. There are many more members of NATO than just the US. Some whom have large investments to protect. The flip side of the argument is that the US would be in a more tenuous situation without Canadian resources and a stable border. A vast energy & resource supply from a stable, allied country next door is impossible to replace. Consider the situation of the EU who are at the mercy of Russian geopolitics or the Chinese and Indians who must scour the world for all available oil supplies. The list of friendly countries supplying oil to the US is very short and most of those countries have oil production in rapid decline. Canada is actually increasing exports. A regime change or any attacks on oil infrastructure in Saudi Arabia would spell disaster for US energy security. Just having a stable ally on your border is a major advantage. Consider the differences between the Canada / US border and the Mexico / US border. Mexico is on the verge of becoming a narco state and is a conduit for millions of illegal immigrants.

The USA will be vastly overstretched if the resource wars present simultaneous conflict around the globe at a time of critical energy shortages. The USA is overstretched now (militarily and financially) fighting 2 wars in third world countries that in the long run may be both unwinable. When conflict breaks out with major powers around the world the USA will need all the help it can get from allied nations to protect vital interests. If nations can work together then problems can be solved or at least the negative effects can be reduced. If it comes down to an all out slug fest then it is easy to get started but no telling where it will end, who will be involved or if anybody will be left standing.

 

ao's picture
ao
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Feb 4 2009
Posts: 2220
Re: America the Beautiful

Canada has been indeed been an effective buffer country and continues to serve American interests that way. 

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