An Alternative Investment Worth Considering

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JAG's picture
JAG
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An Alternative Investment Worth Considering

After watching Michael Ruppert's Collapse documentary last night, I woke up this morning with a new investment in mind: Seeds. Ruppert makes the argument that you shouldn't be storing food, you should be storing the ability to make food.

Last year I bought enough heirloom vegetable seed to last me 4-5 years, but after watching that documentary I think maybe I should really stock up on a diversified allocation of seeds as a possible barter currency. I know many here have mentioned that they are doing the same thing, so I wanted to ask the following questions:

  • What is your climate zone and what type of seeds have you bought?
  • What is the best way to store seeds?
  • Are there any specialized hybrid (or rather non re-producing) seeds that you are buying and why?

Once again thanks for your input, I continue to learn a great deal from the community braintrust.

Jeff

 

earthwise's picture
earthwise
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Re: An Alternative Investment Worth Considering

 

JAG,

 It appears from your post that you may have missed the special quality of heirloom seeds in that they reproduce true to the parent plant. In other words the seeds yielded by the plant you grow will reproduce that same plant, which isn't always true of hybrids. The upshot of this is that the need to stockpile seeds is alleviated by learning how to harvest seeds from your own plants. A couple of good books on this topic:

"SAVING SEEDS, A Gardeners Guide to Growing and Storing Vegetable and Flower Seeds" by Marc Rogers

"SEED TO SEED, Seed Saving and Growing Techniques for Vegetable Gardeners" by Suzanne Ashworth

Also answered is your question about storage: freezing

EndGamePlayer's picture
EndGamePlayer
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Michael Ruppert's Collapse ????!!!!

Jeff- where did you see it? Is it available online? Been looking for it since it was first mentioned here.

plato1965's picture
plato1965
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Re: An Alternative Investment Worth Considering

 

 Agreed Earthwise. Even a single tomato seed can produce a lifetime+ of tomatoes..  and it's all "open source".  Nature doesn't do copyright..

 

 Some basic info here:  http://www.realseeds.co.uk/seedsavinginfo.html

 More here: http://alanbishop.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=saving

 

 I wouldn't class seeds as a barter item particularly ( a bit like stockpiling linux CD's.. ), but as a giveaway item for neighbours, friends etc.

 

 An investment in security and relationships, rather than a financial one..

 

 

( re collapse:  It was on Youtube briefly , taken down today.)

 

cpkj's picture
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Re: An Alternative Investment Worth Considering

If you have Netflix, Collapse is available via the streaming service.

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cpkj
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Re: An Alternative Investment Worth Considering

Double post, apologies.

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Re: An Alternative Investment Worth Considering

The seeds themselves aren't worth much (maybe a few calories) after a couple of years. I agree with earthwise. It's best to learn how to save seed if you are concerned about food system disruption and even that is more of a food security move than a speculative investment. One could argue that keeping one's self fed is an investment worth making though. My brother and I are buying seeds soon from Seed Savers. It's a good time to get what you want now or soon, they run out of some things and I for one don't want to be caught without garlic.

I would add to the list of books: Gardening When It Counts by Steve Solomon. He was a commercial seed grower for years, and explains gardening very well. He has resources in there about dependable seed sources.

One thing about heirlooms is that they are inbred like crazy. This is nessicarily the case for pure bred anything (dogs eg). That can make them vulnerable to diseases and bugs. Market growers often depend on commercial strains because they are potentially more resilent but that's amoung many reasons. To be clear I am not talking about GMOs. I like heirlooms, but I am not farming for profit... yet.

Cheers,

Joel

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Re: An Alternative Investment Worth Considering

 

 

WOW!!! Going to Watch COLLAPSE again.  Seems like Mike is advocating a push toward a Resource Based Economy.  He doesn't come out and say it, but when he points out how money is pointless and useless, and of course the root of all EVIL, it seems that a different kind of thinking or Paradigm will have to emerge or we will all perish some how some way.  

End Monetary Economics,  I am all for it.  Money was invested thousands of years ago, and can no longer help us out of the coming crisis.  

 

 

Aaron M's picture
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Re: An Alternative Investment Worth Considering

Couldn't.

Agree.

More.

Cheers,

Aaron

cmartenson's picture
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Please don't mention: Seed. Savers. Exchange.

I winced a little when I read the topic of this thread because a few months ago certain organization with the words "seed", "savers" and "exchange" in their name sent me a cease and desist letter from their crack legal department (by overnight certified mail, no less) because they detected that our site was infringing on their legal trademark. 

While irksome, it was really more of an amusement to me as a sign of how litigious and unnecessary so much of our economy happens to be.  I certainly would not donate my money to any organization that frivolously engages in legal maneuverings for sport, but to each their own.

For your possible amusement, here was my response sent to their legal firm and the board of directors. 

(And please don't mention "them" here, if possible.  TIA)  :)


Dear Sirs:

Concerning the eight page legal document express-mailed to our organization alleging trademark infringement:

We are entirely sympathetic to the very recent and public troubles as SSE attempts to navigate from “founder's syndrome” to a stable platform of growth and longevity. Further, protecting one’s trademark can be an important activity. However, your recent cease and desist legal missive to our organization (and former webhost which may have confused them) alleging trademark infringement stands as the oddest and perhaps most unnecessary communication we’ve yet received in all our years in business.

We here at PeakProsperity.com have a very specific mission of educating people about an impending shift in our economic landscape and apply all of our resources towards furthering that mission. As a part of that, we believe fully support the important goals of SSE.

Thus it comes as a complete surprise, and not without some amusement here, that your organization has somehow come to the conclusion that we are in competition with your economic and strategic goals. To repeat, and quite unnecessarily to anyone who has spent more than one minute at our site, we offer financial and economic education. SSE offers programs and education relating to seed saving. Your claim of an obvious overlap and infringement escapes us but we admit to not being steeped in legal minutia so perhaps our past business experience is not the most helpful instrumentation when it comes to matters involving trademarks?

While it is not our place to provide counsel, our observation is that the most serious and lasting damage to a brand or trademark is usually caused by a jarring misalignment between the words and the actions of an organization. In this vein, we wonder how many seeds could have been saved or distributed for the same cost as the eight-page legal document you had crafted and sent on your behalf?

Regardless, we are further confused by the allegation of trademark infringement both because of the nature of the alleged infraction (involving an anonymous posting to a public board) and because:

(a) it is completely obvious to even the most casual observer that a website offering financial and economic educational services is not even remotely in a position to economically compete with SSE or otherwise “sow confusion” and;

(b) hinting at an obvious (to you) economic benefit to our organization resulting from public postings made to a free forum leaves us extremely jealous of your business prowess because we’ve not yet figured out how to make any money from free forums maintained for public benefit at our sole expense and;

(c) the “infringements” involved public posts made to a public forum which included links to both your copyrighted book (with a functioning Amazon link too for heaven’s sake) and the SSE website. The only possible outcome of these posts would have been to drive traffic to your site and increase awareness of your mission.

Again, possibly overstepping our bounds, we might offer you the insight that some organizations consider additional website traffic and spontaneous book promotions to be desirable, although we concede that we do not possess the details attending your specific business plan(s) and so it is possible we were working at cross purposes to an unstated internal goal to reduce SSE's book sales, web presence, and reach. If so, let us apologize for inadvertently thwarting these plans.

So let us cut to the chase in this unfortunate exchange; without conceding liability or admitting to any violation of intellectual property rights, PeakProsperity.com has removed all references to Seed Savers™ and Seed Savers Exchange™ as titles in its forum threads and elsewhere in the website.

Further, any and all references to the book in question as well as any and all links to your website as could be located by us have been removed wherever found on our site. We will endeavor through all points in the future to keep any and all references to SSE off of our website and its public forums now and as far into the future as we can foresee.

Because we strive to please, we are eager to assure you that going forward we will be vigilant in our efforts to prevent any accidental free promotion, links, mention or advertising for SSE at our website.

Unfortunately, while we generally seek to be accommodating, at this point we cannot, will not, as you implied we do, remove references to such common words as “seeds”, “saving”, “savers” or “exchange” as these are not specific trademarks. Of course, as you undoubtedly already know, the trademark office required SSE to disclaim the right to exclusive use of the words “seed” and “exchange” except in conjunction with the entire trademark of “Seed Savers” and “Seed Savers Exchange”.

In order to assure that our community understands this matter completely and respects your wishes, as well as any interest they may have in the manner in which SSE chooses to deploy its donated resources, and because we lack sufficient moderation resources to prevent accidental future postings made by public persons unknown to us, we feel it is probably most cost-effective for us to post this entire exchange on our website. This way we can best assure that we do not have to spend valuable future time responding to your vigilant legal team(s).

Finally, and because we take education seriously, you should know that a simple and respectful email would have sufficed.

Sincerely,
Chris Martenson

plato1965's picture
plato1965
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Re: An Alternative Investment Worth Considering

 Good grief...

 I know ignorance and litigiousness are common bedfellows   ... but I'm amazed at seeing it in whats usually a "progressive" movement.

 Foot, shot. Pyrrhic victory accomplished...

 

 way to go SSE, if there were Darwin awards for business .. you'd be a very strong contender.

 

 

 

JAG's picture
JAG
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Re: An Alternative Investment Worth Considering
plato1965 wrote:

 way to go SSE, if there were Darwin awards for business .. you'd be a very strong contender.

LOL!!!

Seriously, sorry Dr. M, I had no idea. I certainly won't be doing business with them.

Ken C's picture
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Re: An Alternative Investment Worth Considering

 

Chris,

 

I really enjoyed your response.

In regards to:

"Finally, and because we take education seriously, you should know that a simple and respectful email would have sufficed."

 

It amazes me that they could not just simply communicate that they were concerned and try to be adults about the whole thing. I guess lawyers need to keep ocupied too.

 

Ken

 

plato1965's picture
plato1965
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Re: An Alternative Investment Worth Considering

 

 If you look at their "about us" page.. there's an indication of what went wrong...

   "Et tu, Brute ?"

SagerXX's picture
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Re: Please don't mention: Seed. Savers. Exchange.
cmartenson wrote:

Again, possibly overstepping our bounds, we might offer you the insight that some organizations consider additional website traffic and spontaneous book promotions to be desirable, although we concede that we do not possess the details attending your specific business plan(s) and so it is possible we were working at cross purposes to an unstated internal goal to reduce SSE's book sales, web presence, and reach. If so, let us apologize for inadvertently thwarting these plans.

ROTFL

Viva!

tx_floods's picture
tx_floods
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Re: An Alternative Investment Worth Considering

I always like to recommend another alternative company. Perhaps I shouldn't ~ Look for a company located in Arizona that specializes in native seeds.

 

Oh, no. Did I just go too far?

Gungnir's picture
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Re: An Alternative Investment Worth Considering

Hey Jag,

Yeah me and Plickety did this prior to leaving the lower 48th for the majority of our seed stocks, with exceptions for potatoes, they're all heirloom varieties so they can replace what we use.

As far as hybrids/GMO we don't have any, mainly because those nice guys at Monsanto and other such places, didn't consider that by creating a massive yield round-up resistant crop, that they'd go and fubar the climate resilience, which works out anyway since I don't particularly want to eat them, but not so rabid about it that I'd starve, and of course they're single generation, so you need to continue to buy seeds.

This is perhaps the best investment that money can buy, plant a seed, give it a little water, a little sunlight, and you can feed yourself indefinitely.

Add in a fishing rod, and you get fish too.

 

plato1965's picture
plato1965
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Re: An Alternative Investment Worth Considering

 

 Here's an interesting idea that appeals to my bottom up, informal, +ve sum game values..

 Start a local "seed circle".  (nb. no lawyers required! )

 http://www.realseeds.co.uk/seedcircle.htm

 Not a bad way to build community either.. if you have similarly minded neighbours/friends or have an allotment.. (are allotments a UK specific thing.. ? - don't want to seem too parochial........ )

 

 

 

goes211's picture
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Re: An Alternative Investment Worth Considering

If you have Netflix, Collapse is available via the streaming service.

Is this true?  It is not available on DirectTV and I want to find a way to see it.  I have been thinking about Netflix and this might be a good reason to give it a try.

bluestone's picture
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Re: An Alternative Investment Worth Considering

goes211

i just checked on Netflix.  Collapse is not available as of yet.  the movie Crude Awakening is available on netflix via streaming service.  it is definitely worthwhile watching as is Collapse

Brian

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