The Refugee Tsunami in Europe

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Wendy S. Delmater's picture
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The Refugee Tsunami in Europe
Czech doctor describes conditions in German hospital
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=681_1444192396 ( if you skip the rest watch this video. Live Leak)

Angry Truck Driver vs. Migrants at Calais (Hungarian w/ Eng. subtitles) Watch the sides of the road leading to the Chunnel

Calais: Illegals complain and throw away food given by French leftists

UK Holds Emergency Meeting over immigrant crisis (CNN)

Watch African Immigrants destroy southern Italy (DailyKen.com)

Drowning for Freedom: Libya's Migrant Jails (part 1 of 3, 10 min)

Refugee Crisis: Hundreds try to storm Vienna Train (RT, from Sept, in case you missed it)  https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=31&v=CzzOZST3olE

PASSPORT TO TERROR: MailOnline reporter buys Syrian papers being sold to ISIS fighters sneaking into Europe hidden among refugees
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3235320/PASSPORT-TERROR-MailOnline-reporter-buys-Syrian-papers-sold-ISIS-fighters-sneaking-Europe-hidden-refugees.html
 

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Ugh

This whole situation just...sucks.

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Heh heh heh.

I distinctly remember the Europeans lecturing the Rhodesians sanctimoniously about Race relations. 

Abrigado Mozambique.

6 months. Set your watch by it.

6 months and the Europeans find their dark side.

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12/15/15 articles

Fights, fury and the Ku Klux Klan: Finland faces wave of vigilante mobs targeting migrants as arrest of an Afghan asylum seeker for rape of 14-year-old schoolgirl pushes one town to the brink  (Daily Mail)

Denmark To Confiscate Gold, Jewelry, & Valuables From Refugees (Zero Hedge)

Hundreds Of Syrian Migrants Had Execution Images On Their Phones (Breitbart London)

Facebook, Twitter, Google Collude With German Government To Censor Discussion On Immigration The two largest social networks, Facebook and Twitter, and the world’s largest search engine, Google, have teamed up with German law enforcement to delete “hate speech” within 24 hours in what is being seen as a last-ditch effort to silence public dissent about a gigantic wave of Syrian immigration. (Breitbart Tech)

 

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Arthur, maybe en masse

I suspect there will be individual pockets of darkness way before then. Remember, too, that this has been going on for months.

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BEGGING for a Police State

This kind of chaos will make the people absolutely BEG for police patrols, barriers, document checks, weapons searches and to microchip everyone to "maintain law and order."

It is inconceivable to me that this is not being done deliberately to trigger a fascist transformation.

 

 

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SP

I point you  back to the Cloward Pivens doctrine, where wealth distribution  (where money is a guaranteed  right, Finland ) is forced by the weight of the poor.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloward%E2%80%93Piven_strategy

How heavy are  Lemings?

 

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EU pop 500,000,000Let's say

EU pop 500,000,000

Let's say 2 million Syrian refugees.

Half of them go back after political settlement in Syria, maybe in five years.

So that's a 0.2% population gain.

Let's say the wealthiest 1% EU citizens have 50% of the total wealth. Tax them by 90% and we should be able to easily handle this and get a free swimming pool each.

What the Right Wing sees                                          What a statistician sees

What the Daily Mail seesWhat a statistician sees

 

 

 

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EU, sovereignity, migrants, refugees

I believe this issue will most likely blow the EU apart.  Brussels will try and dictate policy, but over this particular matter - "who gets to live in my community" - the locals are much more likely to rebel.

This is especially true for immigrants from across a "religious fault line", especially in the current climate of "war on terror", this is just a recipe for disaster.

Who benefits?  Right wing nationalist parties, European national military & intelligence services, Russia, US, & England (divided EU is better than a united EU).

Who loses?  Brussels, holders of Euros - especially in the European periphery.  Eventually.

 

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give, if you want to receive
Carbon Blob wrote:

 

 

Let's say the wealthiest 1% EU citizens have 50% of the total wealth. Tax them by 90% and we should be able to easily handle this and get a free swimming pool each.

so, you think it's ok to steal 90% of your neighbor's wealth so that you can grant yourself a luxury item (swimming pool)?

envy is an ugly thing.

if you want to be wealthy, learn to create wealth, learn to provide goods and services for others that they want, instead of trying to take from others.

 

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OK so it's 2050. The EU has

OK so it's 2050. The EU has broken up after a resurgence of nationalists. Oil and water are being fought over globally. Oil is $350 per barrel and the nascent renewable economy was killed of by the nationalists and their oil company sponsors. Except Spain, which went all out for solar. All the immigrants have been killed off too but the populations of Europe, now freed of foreigners, still have no relief from the crippling depression and collapse around them. Who are they going to blame now ? France eyes Spain's solar economy jealously, and begins conscripting from it's great numbers of poor, unemployed citizens. Germany thinks Norway isn't being honest about it's declared remaining oil and gas reserves, and starts moving tanks to the Danish border. The UK, having lost a long battle with Argentina over Falklands, and having nuked the islands out of spite, starts moving ships to the west coast of Ireland where it's final gas reserves lay..... devil

 

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europe has no choice

CB-

Do you agree that there is an effectively infinite demand from people from poorer countries to move to Europe and live there?  I've spent a great deal of time in emerging market nations.  I have talked with a large number of people who live there.  Almost all of them would give a great deal to have the opportunity to move (to America, Europe, etc) to make a better life.  Those who I know that have succeeded in making it there work very hard - certainly harder than most Americans - and are rich by the standards of the people they left behind.

This does not go unnoticed by those who were left behind.

Recently in Nepal I got to see 8,000 young Nepali men compete for 230 slots in the Royal Ghurka Rifles.  If they get in, and do their duty for 20 years, they are set for life.  There are schools that surround the camp that are devoted to training Nepalis to pass the entrance exam for the RGR.

Nepal's GDP per capita: $694 USD/year.  GDP (PPP) per capita: $1400.

Europe must and will eventually place limits on the ability of others to move there.  It has no choice, in exactly the same way that humanity cannot grow infinitely on a finite planet.  The only question is when it happens, what the limits are, and how it is structured.

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They won't want to come here

They won't want to come here if it all goes WW2 again, will they ? Except the Gurkhas, they'll come in handy.

But seeing the Europeans burning each other's cities on TV might make the developed world thankfull that Europe is too busy to recolonise them.

All's I'm saying is that the last time Europe was a continent of fully sovereign nations it left blown out houses down my street. Better to exchange students than bunker busters, and no nationalist has a genius plan to prevent that happening again. Not that I've seen.

Quick look at how Europeans get along with each other with nothing to bind them..

 

Easily worth it for getting rid of a bit of EU red tape. devil

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false choices

CB-

But seeing the Europeans burning each other's cities on TV might make the developed world thankfull that Europe is too busy to recolonise them.

Wait, so the choice is either a massive war, or unlimited immigration?  That sort of "false choice" approach may work on the Faithful, but to me it just seems like a bid to shut people up.  "The Project is too important to allow for dissent."

A dictatorship is a dictatorship is a dictatorship.

I also notice you declined to describe how a finite Europe can reasonably support unlimited immigration.

If you have the ear of any of the gang in charge, you might suggest to them that it is actually in their interest to allow the individual member states - the ones not named Germany and France - a tiny bit of sovereignty.  Encourage them not to try and influence democratic elections, not to install puppet governments, not to depose elected leaders (even ones that host bunga-bunga parties), and so on.

The structure in place will blow up because the cabal currently in charge have sacrificed any trace of democracy or right of dissent on the altar of the European Project.

 

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i have more than a tiny bit

i have more than a tiny bit of sovereignty or trace of democracy.

And if the EU breaks up, who is to say that a national government will be any more democratic ?

Can you imagine a UKIP government, with it's antipathy towards human rights, and it's desire to remove climate change from a school curriculum, to be any more democratic ?

It's nonsense. Why should I care wherther it's some dickhead in Brussels or some dickhead in London running my life ?

The UK still has Lords, and a Queen !

Women had only had full suffrage for a decade in Britain before dictatorships started sprouting all over Europe. The period of democracy has been longer within the European community than outside of it.

Installing puppet governments is an area of British expertise, it wasn't the British that refused to go along with Iraq war, it was the French. My family served all over the British empire until it collapsed, I don't see the Biritish holding any great democratic superiority over other European nations or the EU as a whole.

So it blows up. What then ? Having just finished the longest ever period of European peace, where is the power and wisdom that will prevent a return to outbreaks of war ? It won't be found in nationalism.

Fine, we leave the EU, and rapidly find we have to maintain other anti-democratic alliances.

Barack Obama sent his pollster Jim Messina to the UK in 2014 with his blessing and a message to stop Ed Miliband winning the general election, it was claimed in a victory speech given by a Conservative Party co-chairman the night of the election.

 

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it depends

CB-

So somewhere in your response you explained how a finite Europe can support unlimited immigration?

The more local the authority, the easier it is for the irritated local citizens to either a) move to a different, more pleasant locale, or b) knock the door of the pinheads causing the problem.

So while right-wing nationalism isn't the fix per se, devolving power downwards is (in my opinion) usually better than centralizing it.  Its just that in Europe the left and center have abandoned democracy in favor of The Project (gotta prevent war, you see - and to do this, we must Rule with an Iron Fist), and so all the right wing nationalists have to do is pick up the mantle to eventually win the day.  The gang currently in charge are really making it easy for them.

I also would like to remind you that Peace lasted for a 50 solid years in Europe prior to the introduction of the Euro.  Euro is not a requirement for peace in Europe.  That's another false choice.

I suspect the Euro is just the Bridge Too Far, since the force that has clearly been required to keep such a disparate group in line is anathema to local self-determination.

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Asking what should be done

Asking what should be done with infinite migration isn't any sort of maths problem that can be answered. It's certanly not a realistic biology problem.

Where is this European iron fist ? I haven't notice any tanks with EU flags rumbling down my street like a new Prague Spring.

Do what you like with the Euro, it obviously doesn't work. The financial system worldwide is awful, and especially in Europe.

The more locally devolved the power, the easier it is for citizens to refuse entry to their pleasant locale. It cuts both ways. You'd have London refusing housing to poor Northerners in case they lower the tone.

 

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We can look at th old Soviet

We can look at th old Soviet territory to see what happens when a power bloc breaks up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-Soviet_conflicts

Suddenly warring factions proliferate.

EU breaks up, several East European countries might prefer forming a bloc with Russia. That would likely mean more migrants.

OK I'm being pedantic about the inifinite migration. I get your gist. But if it's not infinite then what is it ? How about some proper numbers - and not just something from Breitbart ?

Plus - if France and Germany are bullying the rest of Europe, especially Germany on Greece - that's a nationalist sentiment isn't it ?

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reality in europe

Border controls and quotas are required, in a finite Europe with finite resources with infinite immigration demand.  To imagine otherwise is just fantasy - its just the center-left choosing not to deal with the hard issues because the implications run counter to a worldview that doesn't excel at saying no or looking mean.

This leaves the field clear for the folks who have no problem saying no, ranging from Marine Le Pen all the way to pick-your-neo-Nazi party.  And as the economy turns down, that choice will become easier and easier for the locals in each country to make.  Blame the immigrant is a very common strategy when times get harder.

Its really astonishing to me that, in the push to keep the Eurozone together "in the name of peace", the current political class is acting in such a way as to guarantee the rise of the far right.

I strongly believe that each nation has its own culture, its own way of looking at things, and Europe especially is not a homogenous place.  A loose confederation would be a far better idea than a strict monetary union.   That way Germany won't feel the need (or have the ability) to execute a cramdown on Greece.

Given the current structure of the Eurozone, Germany is acting in her own self interest, at the expense of most everyone else.  If the structure were different, they would no longer feel this need, and I really do think everyone would be happier as a result.

See, its not nationalism per se causing the trouble.  Its the structure of the Eurozone is causing the problem.  Having Greece in the same currency block as Germany just makes no sense.  Its just guaranteed to fail, without inter-state transfers and a common debt.

Things were fine in the EC prior to the Eurozone.  There was no threat of war then.  Why use scare tactics now if all we contemplate is a move back to status quo ante?  Executing a cramdown from Brussels is what will bring war to Europe - those right-wingers will get in power, and that's when all hell will break loose.

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Your saying infinite again.

Your saying infinite again. How about large, or great, and attach some numbers ?

As it is, even with a million Syrian immigrants it's just a 0.2% pop growth. That's enough to look after the old folks in an ageing region.

But yeah, it riles the right so someone has to strike a balance between kow-towing to the right, and not taking notice of danger signs.

The left is busy sweeping the discomfort of the working classes under the carpet, and the right is trying to sweep away the wealth inequality of recent years. Factories didn't close in my town because of immigration but because of bank failure.

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No one has the guts to perform TRIAGE

From Merriam's Dictionary:  TRIAGE - 

1a  :  the sorting of and allocation of treatment to patients and especially battle and disaster victims according to a system of priorities designed to maximize the number of survivors 
 

b  :  the sorting of patients (as in an emergency room) according to the urgency of their need for care 

2:  the assigning of priority order to projects on the basis of where funds and other resources can be best used, are most needed, or are most likely to achieve success
People understand the concept of triage, but it seems practically no one has the intestinal fortitude to make and enforce the appropriate decisions.  No one wants to decide who suffers and who survives because it's painful to live with the decision, even if it's the right decision.  So we can't decide, after one of Dr. Martenson's "adult conversations," how many and what kind of immigrants we can safely absorb.  So instead of making the right decision, we make no decision and allow ourselves to be overwhelmed by events.  Of course, not deciding is a decision, and that not deciding will cause much more suffering than making the difficult triage decisions from the beginning.  But somehow, not deciding feels better (even though the results are worse).
 
None of this comes as a surprise to me, because we have become so focused on our tender feelings while becoming absolutely phobic about being courageous, emotionally tough and working/sacrificing for the greater good.  
 
Everybody gets a trophy for participating (so the low performers don't get their feelings hurt).
 
All moral choices are equally as good as all other moral choices, and must be defended with the law, with force and with social control against those who would claim some moral choices are good and right, and others are wrong and evil.  After all, there is NO moral standard by which we can measure right and wrong.  There is only what each person subjectively believes is right and wrong, better and worse.  Each person determines right and wrong for themselves and none can criticize.
 
Political and financial leaders don't have the guts to face our 3E's dilemmas.  No one can contemplate letting the economy naturally clean out all the old bad debts and malinvestments.  And one reason they don't have the courage to face the truth and deal with it courageously is that almost no one among We The People do either.  No one wants to be hung from a lamppost by an angry mob.
 
I have gone through Kubler-Ross's five steps of grief about these things, and now I've accepted that this is the way things are (for now).  As a result, I'm preparing for the wave of darkness to overtake us all rather than devising a way out of our collective mess (that was the bargaining stage).  There's no way out.  (It's not that there aren't theoretical ways out because there are.  But there are no ways out because we are who we are.)  What we have brought on ourselves is what we are in the process of receiving.  The good news about that bad news is that a cleansing will result and we who survive can start over on a firmer, healthier foundation.

 

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Wave of darkness ? Is that

Wave of darkness ? Is that code for wave of dark people ?

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Refugees need help!

Perhaps Israel might step up to the plate and assist Europe by taking in some of these refugees from Syria and MENA? Might there be some room now given the growth in available real estate there?

Edit: How about 25,000 families to start? That's just a drop in the bucket given the current flux into Europe...would that be fair?

 

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Yeah basically anyone putting

Yeah basically anyone putting money into the conflict should be putting money into help. Step forward Saudi and Qatar !

How about if either of those finally get their pipeline through Syria, they pay Europe a refugee support fee for services rendered ?

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So should I take this as your desire, T2H?

So, considering that the Saudis take not one Syrian refugee or Palestinian, and despite the efforts to live together, the motto of the Palestinian leadership is "death to all Jews (Mein Kampf style), Even if it costs us our children",

Should I take it that this is your desire, too?

Thank you for letting me know: your intentions towards others who have done you no harm are evil, and you are not to be trusted.

Even if this was just a snyde remark, and not actually your intent.

That is extremely valuable information in this day and age. Thanks, again.

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How about both?
Michael_Rudmin wrote:

So, considering that the Saudis take not one Syrian refugee or Palestinian, and despite the efforts to live together, the motto of the Palestinian leadership is "death to all Jews (Mein Kampf style), Even if it costs us our children", Should I take it that this is your desire, too?

Not at all...how about Saudi Arabia and Israel take 25,000 families each?

Would that be fair?

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one million

CB-

So that one million figure is just for this year.  If I had to guess, there are probably 5 million more people who would be happy to come to Europe next year under the "everyone is welcome" policy that Germany is forcing on the other nations in the zone.

And once that five million are there, they'll send off for their families.  So call that fifteen million.  And that's just in the next year.  I'd have to see rates for next year to assess the follow-on demand.

As Mish would say, there is an effectively infinite demand for free stuff.  And compared to the rest of the world, Europe is offering a whole lot of free stuff.  Who doesn't like free stuff?  Especially when you have nothing.

As a matter of principle, I believe that each nation has the right to determine how many immigrants it wants to accept, especially if their taxpayers are footing the bill for all the free stuff.  Anything less than that risks causing the very breakup that the Brussels dictators claim to be so intent on avoiding.

 

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I pulled the one million

I pulled the one million figure from my bottom for arguments's sake, as nobody had bothered to provide a real one. I don't see any corrections. You don't have to guess at any numbers, you have a computer.

Nor do I see anyone saying-

According to Nabil Othman, the UNHCR regional representative to the Gulf region, there were 500,000 Syrian refugees in Saudi Arabia at the time of his statement. The government itself of Saudi Arabia has stated that it has, over the past five years since the start of the conflict hosted 2.5 million refugees.

Gonna have to leave this fact-free zone 'm fraid.

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Far as I can tell the

Far as I can tell the refugees are a by-product of the energy business. If you want the fuels you're going to have to kill and displace some people. And there we are, some of them turn up on our borders.

By 2025, when a Syrian refugee turns on her cooker in Britain or Germany, she could be cooking her chickpeas on the gas sent via her old home from Qatar.

It's only fair, after being kicked out of the old country for it, that she should have the opportunity to use some of that Qatari gas. Doesn't seem exactly like an equal deal to me, though.

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number supplied

CB-

I pulled the one million figure from my bottom for arguments's sake, as nobody had bothered to provide a real one. I don't see any corrections.

I didn't correct you on the million - because the number happened to be roughly correct.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34131911

You know, the fact-free zone can be transformed into a fact-full zone if we all use that newfangled "google" thing the kids are talking about so much these days.

 

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Carbon Blob wrote: Gonna have
Carbon Blob wrote:

Gonna have to leave this fact-free zone 'm fraid.

I thought you were leaving? :)

And besides, the concept was sound - insatiable appetite + incapacity to supply = infinite demand

It's not really fair running your mouth at other people just because you don't understand.

As an aside, CB, do you have your own garden? Do you know how much water it takes to grow a tomato plant from seedling in the spring the fruit bearing in the autumn? Do you know how many tomatoes people eat in year? Now how much water do you think is required to feed the UK? Seeing the problem yet?

 

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