Guyenot: Who are the Neocons?

335 posts / 0 new
Last post
sand_puppy's picture
sand_puppy
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Apr 13 2011
Posts: 1662
Guyenot: Who are the Neocons?

Mememonkey pointed my to a 2013 essay by Laurent Guyenot, a French historian and writer on the deep state, that addresses the question of "Who Are The Neoconservatives."  If you would like to know about that group that sends the US military into battle and tortures prisoners of war in out name, you need to know about these guys.

 

First, if you are Jewish, or are a GREEN Meme, please stop and take a deep breath.  Please put on your thinking cap and don’t react.  We are NOT disrespecting a religion, spiritual practice or a culture.  We are talking about a radical and very destructive group hidden within a culture and using that culture.  Christianity has similar groups and movements--the Crusades, the KKK, the Spanish Inquisition, the Salem witch trials, etc.
 
My personal investment:  This question has been a subject of intense interest for me since I became convinced that 9/11 was an inside job, that the Iraq war was waged for reasons entirely different from those publically stated.  I have been horrified to see such a shadowy, powerful group operating from a profoundly "pre-moral" developmental level—i.e., not based in even the most rudimentary principles of morality foundational to civilization.

 

Who the hell are these people?!
 

Goyenot’s main points (with a touch of personal editorializing):
 

1.  The American Neocons are Zionists (Their goal is expanding political / military power.  Initially this is focused on the state of Israel.)

Neoconservativism is essentially a modern right wing Jewish version of Machiavelli's political strategy.  What characterizes the neoconservative movement is therefore not as much Judaism as a religious tradition, but rather Judiasm as a political project, i.e. Zionism, by Machiavellian means.

 

This is not a religious movement though it may use religions words and vocabulary.  It is a political and military movement.  They are not concerned with being close to God.  This is a movement to expand political and military power.  Some are Christian and Mormon, culturally.

 
Obviously , if Zionism is synonymous with patriotism in Israel, it cannot be an acceptable label in American politics, where it would mean loyalty to a foreign power.  This is why the neoconservatives do not represent themselves as Zionists on the American scene.  Yet they do not hide it all together either.

 

He points out dual-citizen (Israel / USA) members and self proclaimed Zionists throughout cabinet level positions in the US government, international banking and controlling the US military.  In private writings and occasionally in public, Neocons admit that America’s war policies are actually Israel’s war goals.  (Examples  provided.)

 

2.   Most American Jews are overwhelmingly liberal and do NOT share the perspective of the radical Zionists.

 

The neoconservative movement, which is generally perceived as a radical (rather than “conservative”) Republican right, is, in reality, an intellectual movement born in the late 1960s in the pages of the monthly magazine Commentary, a media arm of the American Jewish Committee, which had replaced the Contemporary Jewish Record in 1945. The Forward, the oldest American Jewish weekly, wrote in a January 6th, 2006 article signed Gal Beckerman: “If there is an intellectual movement in America to whose invention Jews can lay sole claim, neoconservatism is it. It’s a thought one imagines most American Jews, overwhelmingly liberal, will find horrifying. And yet it is a fact that as a political philosophy, neoconservatism was born among the children of Jewish immigrants and is now largely the intellectual domain of those immigrants’ grandchildren”.

 

3.   Intellectual Basis and Moral developmental level

 

Goyenot traces the Neocon’s origins through its influential writers and thinkers.  Highest on the list is Leo Strauss.  (Neocons are sometimes called “the Straussians.”)  Leo Strauss is a great admirer of Machiavelli with his utter contempt for restraining moral principles making him “uniquely effective,” and, “the ideal patriot.”  He gushes over Machiavelli praising the intrepidity of his thought, the grandeur of his vision, and the graceful subtlety of his speech.

 

Other major points:

 

  • believes that Truth is harmful to the common man and the social order and should be reserved for superior minds.

 

  • nations derive their strength from their myths, which are necessary for government and governance.

 

  • national myths have no necessary relationship with historical reality: they are socio-cultural constructions that the State has a duty to disseminate.

 

  • to be effective, any national myth must be based on a clear distinction between good and evil; it derives its cohesive strength from the hatred of an enemy nation.

 

  • As recognized by Abram Shulsky and Gary Schmitt in an article “Leo Strauss and the World of Intelligence” (1999), for Strauss, “deception is the norm in political life” – the rule they [the Neocons] applied to fabricating the lie of weapons of mass destruction by Saddam Hussein when working inside the Office of Special Plans.

 

  • George Bushes speech from the national cathedral after 9/11 exemplifies myth-making at its finest:  “Our responsibility to history is already clear: to answer these attacks and rid the world of Evil. War has been waged against us by stealth and deceit and murder. This nation is peaceful, but fierce when stirred to anger. . . .[W]e ask almighty God to watch over our nation, and grant us patience and resolve in all that is to come. . . . And may He always guide our country. God bless America.

 

 

4.  The Zionist/Neocons are piggy-backing onto, or utilizing, the religious myths of both the Jewish and Christian world to consolidate power.  This is brilliant Machiavellian strategy.

  • the “chosen people” myth (God likes us best, we are better than you)
  • the Holy Land myth (one area of real estate is more holy than another)
  • the second coming of Christ myth
  • the establishment of God’s Kingdom on Earth through global destruction/war (nuclear war for the Glory of God)

 

[The]Pax Judaica will come only when “all the nations shall flow” to the Jerusalem temple, from where “shall go forth the law” (Isaiah 2:1-3). This vision of a new world order with Jerusalem at its center resonates within the Likudnik and neoconservative circles. At the Jerusalem Summit, held from October 12th to 14th, 2003 in the symbolically significant King David Hotel, an alliance was forged between Zionist Jews and Evangelical Christians around a “theopolitical” project, one that would consider Israel… “the key to the harmony of civilizations”, replacing the United Nations that’s become a “a tribalized confederation hijacked by Third World dictatorships”: “Jerusalem’s spiritual and historical importance endows it with a special authority to become a center of world’s unity. [...] We believe that one of the objectives of Israel’s divinely-inspired rebirth is to make it the center of the new unity of the nations, which will lead to an era of peace and prosperity, foretold by the Prophets”. Three acting Israeli ministers spoke at the summit, including Benjamin Netanyahu, and Richard Perle.

 

Jerusalem’s dream empire is expected to come through the nightmare of world war. The prophet Zechariah, often cited on Zionist forums, predicted that the Lord will fight “all nations” allied against Israel. In a single day, the whole earth will become a desert, with the exception of Jerusalem, who “shall remain aloft upon its site” (14:10).

 

With more than 50 millions members, Christians United for Israel is a major political force in the U.S..   Its Chairman, pastor John Haggee, declared: “The United States must join Israel in a pre-emptive military strike against Iran to fulfill God’s plan for both Israel and the West, [...] a biblically prophesied end-time confrontation with Iran, which will lead to the Rapture, Tribulation, and Second Coming of Christ”.

 

And Guyenot concludes:

 

Is it possible that this biblical dream, mixed with the neo-Machiavellianism of Leo Strauss and the militarism of Likud, is what is quietly animating an exceptionally determined and organized ultra-Zionist clan? General Wesley Clark testified on numerous occasions before the cameras, that one month after September 11th, 2001 a general from the Pentagon showed him a memo from neoconservative strategists “that describes how we’re gonna take out seven countries in five years, starting with Iraq, and then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia and Sudan and finishing off with Iran”. Is it just a coincidence that the “seven nations” doomed to be destroyed by Israel form part of the biblical myths?  …[W]hen Yahweh will deliver Israel “seven nations greater and mightier than yourself […] you must utterly destroy them; you shall make no covenant with them, and show no mercy to them.”

 

My summary:

  • We have a group that wishes greatly expanded power (to rule the world??)
  • Among them are brilliant strategists
  • They operate unrestrained by the most basic moral principles upon which civilization is founded.  They are undisturbed by compassion for the suffering of others.
  • They use consciously and skillfully use deception and “myth-making” to shape policy
  • This is not a spiritual movement in any sense
  • They are utilizing religious myths and language to influence public thinking
  • They envision “winning” in the aftermath world war.
  • They have infiltrated the highest levels of banking, US military, NATO and US government.
     

 

 

Time2help's picture
Time2help
Status: Diamond Member (Online)
Joined: Jun 9 2011
Posts: 2720
Meme

Where would this group fall under the Spiral Dynamics meme model?

sand_puppy's picture
sand_puppy
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Apr 13 2011
Posts: 1662
Lawson Video

This video is from the piece by Guyenot.

I want to assure everyone, again, that I have friends, co-workers and relatives who are Jewish and who are clearly very very good people.  But they are GREEN Meme and ORANGE Meme Jews, not the BLUE/RED Meme level, the norm during the middle ages.

We must look at what is happening here and think deeply.

Time2help's picture
Time2help
Status: Diamond Member (Online)
Joined: Jun 9 2011
Posts: 2720
Hagee

This gets weirder by the day. My dad used to take the family to Cornerstone Church and we would listen to Pastor Hagee every Sunday.

Starting at 0:56:

Quote:

"In our lifetime we have watched the enemies of Israel attack Israel with corrupt peace treaties; Oslo accords, the Kadema treaty with the Palestinians. The next treaty that's coming down the road will be intended to divide the city of Jerusalem. Listen to me! Every Bible believing Christian in America and around the world should resist the effort to divide the city of Jerusalem. Period."

- Pastor John Hagee

sand_puppy's picture
sand_puppy
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Apr 13 2011
Posts: 1662
Michael Chertoff: Role in 9/11

Again, this is offered in great respect for the overwhelmingly decent Jewish people here at PeakProsperity, in my family, and in my work place.

-------------------------------------------------

Laurent Guyenot has another piece posted at Vereran's Today where he asks: Was 9/11 and Inside Job or a Mossad Job?

The role of the Israeli Deep State in the Sept. 11th terror attacks, which have laid the foundation for the 21st century on the biggest lie in human history, is surrounded by a taboo even within the so-called 9/11 Truth Movement.

Most activists groups remain focused on the slogan “9/11 was an Inside Job”, and keep their eyes “wide shut” on the evidence incriminating the role of the Mossad.

One person's potential role was worthy of note:

Michael Chertoff, [a dual citizen of Israel and the United States], son of a rabbi and of a Mossad pioneer, was heading the Criminal Division of the Department of Justice in 2001. As such, he was responsible for the retention and destruction of all the material evidence regarding the 9/11 attacks, from the steel beams of the WTC to the video recordings at the Pentagon. He was also responsible for the quick repatriation of the “dancing Israelis”. In 2003, he was appointed Secretary of Homeland Security, in charge of counter-terrorism on the American soil, which allowed him to control dissenting citizens and restrain access to the evidence under the pretext of Sensitive Security Information.  He was a co-author of the US Patriot Act.

Thus we have a dual-citizen administering the US police state.

In another connection, Michael Chertoff's cousin, Benjamin Chertoff, was the senior researcher who produced the Popular Mechanics issue "Debunking 9/11" which was critical of the 9/11 truth movement.

Yoxa's picture
Yoxa
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Dec 21 2011
Posts: 251
Dual citizen?
Quote:

 a dual citizen of Israel and the United States

Please provide a credible source for that claim. I tried to look it up and couldn't find anything to support it.

mememonkey's picture
mememonkey
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Nov 1 2009
Posts: 211
Citizenship by descent
Yoxa wrote:
Quote:

 a dual citizen of Israel and the United States

Please provide a credible source for that claim. I tried to look it up and couldn't find anything to support it.

I ordinarily wouldn't quote Wikipedia as a reliable source however, this particular statement is factual.

Citizenship by descent

A child of an Israeli citizen (including children born outside of Israel as first generation out of Israel) is considered an Israeli citizen. Persons born outside Israel are Israeli citizens if their father or mother holds Israeli citizenship, acquired either by birth in Israel, according to the Law of Return, by residence, or by naturalization.[2]

______________________________

 

Michael Chertoff's mother is an Israeli citizen and a famous one at that. 

similar scenario with Rahm Emanual who's citizenship is a function of his Father's

 

mememonkey

Time2help's picture
Time2help
Status: Diamond Member (Online)
Joined: Jun 9 2011
Posts: 2720
Article from Commentary

How the GOP Went Zionist (Commentary)

Quote:

The movement to isolate Israel may be in full swing on college campuses across the country, and Israel may be the subject of ever-louder international denunciations, but when it comes to a Republican Party riven by squabbles, the Jewish state has become a unifying glue.

Support for Israel is all but unanimous among the party’s politicians in Washington, and in the presidential race, candidates vie to outdo one another when it comes to expressing their commitment to it; even the isolationist presidential candidate Rand Paul has gone to great pains to attempt to establish his pro-Israel bona fides.

Bankers Slave's picture
Bankers Slave
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Jul 26 2012
Posts: 513
To question 9/11

in the UK, you are branded anti Semitic by many! WTF!

Even David Scameron falsely claims that 9/11 truthers are spreading lies that the event was a Jewish plot!

I wore my latest custom made tee shirt, which is a direct swipe at Bushes infamous axis of evil speech(NWO axis of evil USA, UK & Israel. 9/11 and 7/7 false flag terror attacks!)  on the esplanade of Edinburgh Castle last summer at a TTIP demonstration.

One of the security goons staff, told me that my tee shirt would be offensive to Israeli tourists and I was ordered to leave otherwise the police would be called! There was no consideration at all for the possible offense  that could be caused to the sheeple  citizens of the UK or USA, even though they outnumbered the  Israelis by 1000s at that venue!

Famous quote that I find very applicable, was it Oscar Wilde?

"If you are going to tell people the truth, you better be prepared to make them laugh, otherwise they might kill you!"

Thanks to Sand Puppy for starting this thread.

Yoxa's picture
Yoxa
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Dec 21 2011
Posts: 251
Not verified
Quote:

 Persons born outside Israel are Israeli citizens if their father or mother holds Israeli citizenship

That doesn't tell me whether Chertoff has dual citizenship -now-. Many people relinquish dual citizenship when they take positions in the government so what's his status now?

Give me a credible source, please.

Another thought: even if someone has dual citizenship because of a parent, it's a knee-jerk assumption to think that makes them less loyal to the country where they were born and raised. Inferences to that effect need to be backed up by a lot more than hearsay evidence, assumptions and speculation, which is all I've seen so far.

 

Time2help's picture
Time2help
Status: Diamond Member (Online)
Joined: Jun 9 2011
Posts: 2720
Dual Allegiance more relevant than Dual Citizenship

Let’s Talk about Dual Allegiance (National Review)

Quote:

The concept of dual allegiance — the idea that some Americans have political allegiance to a foreign state as well as to the United States — is inconsistent with the moral foundation of American democracy. Our form of government is based on equality of citizenship, and dual-allegiance citizens are by definition civic bigamists.

Dual-allegiance citizens exist in a political space beyond the American constitutional community. Besides being part of “We the People of the United States,” they are apparently members of another “people” — a foreign political community — with different and competing responsibilities and commitments. These foreign interests and commitments dilute their commitment, attachment, and allegiance to the United States.

Dual Allegiance: A Challenge to Immigration Reform and Patriotic Assimilation (Center for Immigration Studies)

Quote:

In 1967, the U.S. Supreme Court in Afroyim v. Rusk, by a vote of 5-4, overturned 200 years of traditional American practice toward dual allegiance. Nevertheless, there is plenty of effective action that Congress could take within current Supreme Court interpretations.

Bankers Slave's picture
Bankers Slave
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Jul 26 2012
Posts: 513
Dual citizenship or not,

Chertoff has proven himself to be a traitor to the people of America! Enjoy your Homeland security and ever diminishing freedom thanks to scum like him!

sand_puppy's picture
sand_puppy
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Apr 13 2011
Posts: 1662
Confirming and Denying Dual Citizenship Status

Yoxa,

Documenting Israeli citizenship is difficult.  And, as noted above by others, the real issue is "Whom do you serve?"

I can find some 20 articles where Michael Chertoff is described as a dual citizen, others where he is praised by known neocons, and others where the exploits of both of his parents (Rabbi Dr. Gershon B. Chertoff and Livia Chertoff (nee Eisen)) for the Mossad are praised.  Is this a credible indicator?

Please let me enlist your help with this research project and reveal the difficulty of finding "proof." 

Can anyone document that Michael Chertoff is NOT an Israeli citizen? 

 

mememonkey's picture
mememonkey
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Nov 1 2009
Posts: 211
Me thinks you protest too much
Yoxa wrote:
Quote:

 Persons born outside Israel are Israeli citizens if their father or mother holds Israeli citizenship

That doesn't tell me whether Chertoff has dual citizenship -now-. Many people relinquish dual citizenship when they take positions in the government so what's his status now?

Give me a credible source, please.

Another thought: even if someone has dual citizenship because of a parent, it's a knee-jerk assumption to think that makes them less loyal to the country where they were born and raised. Inferences to that effect need to be backed up by a lot more than hearsay evidence, assumptions and speculation, which is all I've seen so far.

 

so what your saying is he MIGHT not be a dual citizen because it's POSSIBLE he renounced his Israeli citizenship.  but... even if he is a dual citizen, that doesn't impugn his loyalty to the US  despite his public role and documented actions with regards to the 9 11 / investigation /patriot act etc.

So what?  You will need to hear authenticated wiretap recordings for this to resonate with you??

Normal investigative technique RELIES on your  "hearsay evidence, assumptions and speculation" in order to produce suspects and motives and to eventually allow the collection of hard and circumstantial evidence for a court of law. 

  While Guyenot does not have subpoena power, he does a credible job of connecting the dots with rigorous sourcing.

Putting out calls for 'hard evidence'  of internal loyalties /motivation  on something like this is disingenuous at best.  This is a discussion in a blog post,  Not a court in the Hague.

I honestly can't tell if you are purposefully being obdurate,  or lack  the ability   to draw common sense inferences from context. 

Given the context of Chertoff's upbringing,  I can confidently infer that he has a profound loyalty to the State of Israel. Given his actions and career path and Israel's documented history and methodology  of covert operations, I would conclude that he is likely a Mossad asset.  Can I prove it?  No. 

Even if you could prove this in a court of law.  I'm sure the investigation would be stymied  by the state secrets provisions of the Patriot Act.     wait,  he helped author that?    wow that's a coincidence!

 

mememonkey

 

 

 

 

Time2help's picture
Time2help
Status: Diamond Member (Online)
Joined: Jun 9 2011
Posts: 2720
Citizenship or not...

...it would seem to come down to loyalties. Where (and with whom) do a persons loyalties lie?

Is getting all tied up in the specific details of citizenship (which may well be difficult to prove or disprove) missing the point?

jtwalsh's picture
jtwalsh
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 1 2008
Posts: 260
Competing Interests

Mememonkey said:    

“Given the context of Chertoff's upbringing, I can confidently infer that he has a profound loyalty to the State of Israel. Given his actions and career path and Israel's documented history and methodology of covert operations, I would conclude that he is likely a Mossad asset.  Can I prove it?  No.” 

This entire thread is giving me chills. Having three grandparents who were immigrants (the fourth was a child of immigrants) I am fairly terrified by the “guilt by where your genes came from” tone of what is being discussed by otherwise rational people. Chertoff should be judged by what we know of him in his career and public life.  There is certainly plenty of grist there without creating an un-provable, conspiratorial, traitorous, dark side for him.  

By virtue of my father’s mother being born in Ireland he was automatically a dual-citizen.  I have the right to claim dual citizenship as a native born citizen of the United States and as a citizen abroad of the Irish Republic.  I have not formally applied for my Irish passport but have assembled the paperwork necessary and have studied the process. I do not consider my residual loyalty to the land of my ancestors as compromising my loyalty to the United States.  I can work and hope for the success of both peoples.  I can and I have supported American politicians who I felt were supportive and understanding of the needs and struggles of Ireland and the Irish, and who would use their authority to foster the well being of both Ireland and the US.  I have spoken my views on the British government’s violence to quell Northern Irish moves towards independence. (Often assisted by our government looking the other way.) I do not believe that my views and loyalties to the land of my ancestors, or my speaking of them and supporting them politically, should exclude me from economic or political positions in the United States. These activities do not make me a traitor to the country where I was raised and have lived my life.

On the other side of my gene pool, my mother’s parents came from Poland. With my Anglo-Irish last name and my practiced New England accent few people I meet suspect my half Slavic ancestry. I have endured uncounted episodes where ignorant Anglos tell a stupid Polack joke, only to be thoroughly embarrassed as I reveal my ancestry.  The response is an almost universal “well I didn’t mean you personally.”  Of course they did, the fools.  They were lumping all people of a particular culture and genetic makeup into an impersonal negative stereotype without regard of individual differences. In line with these experiences, I am sorry, but hearing some of the allegations presented here, the earnest declarations of “I don’t mean all Jews” rings very hollow with me.  “I didn’t mean all Polacks, just the dumb ones.”

Things are not good for many people at present.  It is a near certainty that things will not improve in the short term.  A large part of what we do at PP is to assist each other in preparing for the physical, intellectual and emotional turmoil to come. In the current election cycle the political folks on both right and left have already been working the ethnic, religious, racial, divide to conquer meme. If we give into this process while things are still relatively tranquil, dividing into tribal groups with multiple grudges will be the death of many of us when things really get interesting.

The enemy here is a sociopathic group of people who crave power, wealth and fame and who have their hands on the levers of our economic and political systems.  They come from every race, every nationality, every socio-economic group and they have corrupted systems to the point of collapsing them.  Their one commonality is that they would allow people, nations, economies, science, medicine, cultures, indeed the planet itself, to die, if they thought it would advance their aims and satisfy their insatiable appetites for one minute.

Our goal should be to survive their folly and then to be looking to create a better future.

JT

Yoxa's picture
Yoxa
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Dec 21 2011
Posts: 251
Obdurate indeed

I asked for a credible source to verify a claim that was made in this thread.

I'm still waiting.

If that makes me obdurate, so be it.

 

 

Tim Ladson's picture
Tim Ladson
Status: Bronze Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 22 2012
Posts: 74
Obdurate Smoke Screen

It seems to me that S/P and Mememonkey have provided enough "coincidental" dot connection to support a reasonable conclusion of culpability or suspicion, that overcomes a self righteous demand for satisfaction on a minor point.   

mememonkey's picture
mememonkey
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Nov 1 2009
Posts: 211
Misconstrued

Jt Walsh,

I understand your concern, but feel that it is misconstrued. If you read the source article that started this thread and follow the arguments presented.  It is explicitly clear that the discussion is about a political agenda, that happens to be manifested in the context of the objectives of  a National State. 

The fact that Israel is by definition a religious State muddies the water and allows for conflating exploration of these issues with charges of  bigotry Anti Semitism etc.  

 I stand by the statement you quoted,  as a matter of logic.   I am taking into consideration in  toto,  both the actions of Michael Chertoff and his background  (being raised by Mossad agents) as being indicative of implicit support of Zionist agenda.    

  This is in no way     "lumping all people of a particular culture and genetic makeup into an impersonal negative stereotype without regard of individual differences"

I would make a similar observations about Lynn Cheney, daughter of Darth Cheney as she is a rabid Neocon as well  Parental influence a significant (albeit not determining) factor in examining character and motivation and a data point worth consideration.

The record of explicit support of Zionism by the Neocons both Jewish and non Jewish is both public and unambiguous. If you read the article you would see that Neocon agenda is by definition a Zionist agenda.

I don't disagree  with your concept of 'the enemy' as:

"The enemy here is a sociopathic group of people who crave power, wealth and fame and who have their hands on the levers of our economic and political systems.  They come from every race, every nationality, every socio-economic group"

But we are talking about one very critical subset of that group, and attempting to dissect their actions and motivations based on a particular misguided Nationalistic, political objective.

Discussing the people with agency in this matter  includes the context of their ties to the political objectives of a foreign National State hence the 'dual citizen' issue. ( which has been pointed out in this discussion is inadequate and distracting  label relative to the more relevant issue of loyalty/motivation

If a group of actors act in the interests of a foreign state to the detriment of their resident state, is it not fair to question and examine their relationship to that foreign state?   Or do we ignore this because it requires crossing a minefield of political correctness?

 

mememonkey

Yoxa's picture
Yoxa
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Dec 21 2011
Posts: 251
Quote: It seems to me that
Quote:

 It seems to me that S/P and Mememonkey have provided enough "coincidental" dot connection to support a reasonable conclusion of culpability or suspicion, that overcomes a self righteous demand for satisfaction on a minor point.

Nope, they haven't. On my planet, it takes more than assumption, speculation and innuendo to connect dots.

If wanting verification of "a minor point" is self-righteous, then hey, I'm self-righteous as well as obdurate.

I'm reminded of Van Halen's performance contract which required that the band be provided with a bowl of M&Ms from which the candies of a certain color had all been removed. Some people thought that was a prima-donna demand, but actually the bowl of candies was a quick, clear signal to the band about whether the set-up team in the concert city had been careful or sloppy with the details in the job specs. The "minor point" was sometimes a signal of much larger problems.

 

mememonkey's picture
mememonkey
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Nov 1 2009
Posts: 211
Planet Yoxa
Yoxa wrote:

Nope, they haven't. On my planet, it takes more than assumption, speculation and innuendo to connect dots.

If wanting verification of "a minor point" is self-righteous, then hey, I'm self-righteous as well as obdurate.

 

Ok,  I understand now.

From wikipedia:   Planet Yoxa  :

A small but very dense planet in the Obdurata solar system revolves around a single point.  Vision from the surface is obscured by a layer of smoke that prevents inhabitants from seeing the larger picture

Inhabitants are known to be stubborn, enjoy 80's hair bands  and eat M&M's

mememonkey

Yoxa's picture
Yoxa
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Dec 21 2011
Posts: 251
Symbolic
Quote:

 Inhabitants are known to be stubborn, enjoy 80's hair bands  and eat M&M's

That's one part fact, two parts speculation.

Symbolic of this whole topic, methinks.

 

mememonkey's picture
mememonkey
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Nov 1 2009
Posts: 211
touche'

well played sir!

 

mememonkey

Satanic Reptilian NWO EUSSR Mind Control Paid Troll's picture
Satanic Reptili...
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Jun 1 2015
Posts: 331
What about this

What about this ?

http://phil.uregina.ca/CRC/

Satanic Reptilian NWO EUSSR Mind Control Paid Troll's picture
Satanic Reptili...
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Jun 1 2015
Posts: 331
Does this mean that they are,

Does this mean that they are, in fact, atheists, but prepared to stay within their religion because of the psychological levers it offers ?

 - as here https://www.opendemocracy.net/faith-iraqwarphiloshophy/article_1542.jsp

sand_puppy's picture
sand_puppy
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Apr 13 2011
Posts: 1662
Neocon/Zionist Athiests? -- Maybe!

Carbon Blob,

I read the article you linked above with interest.  I also was wondering about whether the religious myths were really believed by the highest level of the Zionist / Neocon thinkers. 

Strauss described 3 levels of people: 

  • the philosopher, who was an elite superior person who was designed to rule,
  • the gentlemen, who could be motivated by patriotism and religion to run off and fight wars, and
  • the vulgar, (masses) who were only interested in crude comforts.

One of the big questions in my mind is would the elite "philosopher" believe a religious mythology?  From all that I can gather the answer is absolutely not.  Leo Strauss felt that the elite "philosopher" should have no morality at all, no believe in the afterlife, no belief in God and no belief in any moral code

Basically, morals, religion and patriotism were for sissies.

If this understanding of Strauss is correct, then the Jewish people and nation of Israel are being used by these "philosopher elites" also.  Perhaps we are all being herded into actions that serve the purpose of the herder.

Suppose I envisioned myself as a pure Machiavellian master and wished to reshape the world.  I would work with the natural resources available.  These include 1) Judeo-Christian mythology believed by billions, and, 2)  the largest military force on earth (the USA).

 

Satanic Reptilian NWO EUSSR Mind Control Paid Troll's picture
Satanic Reptili...
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Jun 1 2015
Posts: 331
..except there's nothing more

..except there's nothing more sissy than spending your life behind a desk reading Plato.

These look like very one dimensional characters. I don't know much about them but they hardly strike me as examples of a life being fully lived, despite their superior pretensions.

Let's say you are a Machiavellian string puller of the largest military. One aspect of military life, apart from the obvious tragedies and stupidities involved, is that it makes people physically robust and can provide extreme thrills. Neither of these are notable qualities of philosophers and their lives. A lot of them seem to be absent of any intense feeling. Or maybe they are sensitive individuals who get the same buzz from winning an argument as a paratrooper does from jumping out of planes.Who knows - nobody seems to be asking such questions. One wonders if it's the jealousy the dweeb holds for the jock, taken to extremes.

And the idea that they hold some sort of secret seems laughable too. At least in the philosophical sense. They might weave secret schemes, but pretty much all human secrets are out in the open. You can buy manuals in any bookshop to guide you to all ends of the human psyche nowadays.

Example - esoteric secrets, free, on youtube. No need for any Harvard Phd. What was Strauss teaching that was so much more profound ? Whatever it was, it's not showing when I see Wolfowitz and his ilk on my TV screen.

 

sand_puppy's picture
sand_puppy
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Apr 13 2011
Posts: 1662
Bin Laden's Mountain Fortress In Tora Bora

In an interview on a Sunday Morning News show Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld explained the command and control structure of Osama Bin Ladin in Afghanistan. 

Never ever underestimate the SH*T we are being fed by our leaders as they build the myths in the minds of a gullible public.

 

Bankers Slave's picture
Bankers Slave
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Jul 26 2012
Posts: 513
Irresistible

Satanic Reptilian NWO EUSSR Mind Control Paid Troll's picture
Satanic Reptili...
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Jun 1 2015
Posts: 331
Where do they park

Where do they park Thunderbird 2 in that ?

sand_puppy's picture
sand_puppy
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Apr 13 2011
Posts: 1662
No Parent Should Have To See His Child Gunned Down.....

Twice.

First on one continent, then on another.  This is the twice murdered Noah Pozner.

(Thanks Time2Help for the links)

This sweet young boy was killed at Sandy Hook Elementary School on December 14, 2012, leaving a grieving family.  His name is Noah Pozner.

His parents do a professional photo-shoot with the editors of People Magazine to show readers their grief.

Then on another continent poor little Noah is shot again at the Peshawar School in Pakistan.  His Pakistani  family grieves for him.  (I believe that he had two families that each loved him equally.)

 

The BBC reporter shows the photos of the murdered children, including Noah.

A candle light service is held for the victims at the Peshawar School.  Noah's picture is in the middle.

Anyone killed twice needs to be included in such a prayer circle.

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Login or Register to post comments