Not Just Another Depression: U.S. enters a dark age

10 posts / 0 new
Last post
Mots's picture
Mots
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Jun 18 2012
Posts: 187
Not Just Another Depression: U.S. enters a dark age

Many people here are optimistic and assume that all we have to do is work on our political  leaders, vote for the right guy etc. to overcome a temporary malaise.  Instead I think that the pivotal shift is more akin to the collapse of the Roman Empire, that was followed by an age of non-enlightenment/non-reason (i.e. dark age).  Over the years seeing this change in America and the differences from Asia, I am convinced that those of us who "believe" in the power of rational thought need to wake up and either leave America (the collapsing empire) for a safer place in the fringes overseas, or else form an intentional/small/self sufficient community in the U.S.  Today the NY Times had a commentary on this topic,  which seems right on: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/22/opinion/welcome-to-the-age-of-denial.html

Of the reader comments to this article, one really struck a chord and illustrates the futility of wasting time going against the stream of modern life led by the MSM:

(in last 10-15 years) polls of uniformed individuals' opinions (have increasingly) assumed more political weight than rigorously derived scientific knowledge. So, naturally, vested financial interests set about swaying citizens' opinions with misinformation, disinformation, lies, and other subterfuge.  Another thing I've noticed, pretty much along the same lines, is that if I mention a book I've read by a serious scholar who has spent his or her entire life studying everything there is to know about a particular subject, the person I mention it to immediately starts spouting media-propagated nonsense as a substitute for reading the book and is incapable of listening to more than a dozen words or so of the argument the author has laid out.    I find it hard to find individuals with whom to have informed conversations outside of a narrow slice of academia, and this includes people who read newspapers and magazines.  It seems that certain over-simplifications -- and poll numbers -- take hold and dominate daily discourse. Net result is a lot of people are walking around thinking that they understand what is going on, and for all intent and purposes they do not know a thing.

We really need to get out and away, or else form small, self reliant communities here, in an analogous fashion to the monesteries that formed during and after the Roman collapse, wherein believers in rational  thought  survived that dark age. 

Christopher H's picture
Christopher H
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: May 29 2009
Posts: 148
That's essentially what Morris Berman has been saying

What you described is essentially what the historian and cultural critic Morris Berman has been saying for a number of years, as evidenced by the titles to some of his books, like The Twilight of American Culture and Dark Ages America.  Some of his basic arguments/points are as follows:

1. The world is passing from "enlightenment" into "endarkenment," and nowhere is this more severe than in America.

2. There is no hope of another enlightenment period taking place in America -- we're just too far gone.

3. The best hope for keeping some light of civilization going within a collapsing American Empire is the formation of monastic communities.

 

While I find that Berman paints with too broad a brush at times, and his perspective is sometimes too heavily influenced by his Marxist approach, I think that he's probably on to something.

Doug's picture
Doug
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 1 2008
Posts: 3125
Good subject

I am beginning to despair that we have entered a world of Idiocracy. 

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387808/quotes

Quote:

Narrator: The years passed, mankind became stupider at a frightening rate. Some had high hopes the genetic engineering would correct this trend in evolution, but sadly the greatest minds and resources where focused on conquering hair loss and prolonging erections.

In arguments between politicians (they no longer have debates) among the most commons phrases are 'the American people believe...' and 'the American people want...'.  If any authority is cited at all, it is likely some push poll that is designed to elicit certain responses.  More depressing is that the response never is that the American people are wrong. 

Leadership demands that occasionally people need to be told they are wrong and the authorities they listen to are wrong.  But, that carries no weight even when backed by reams of sound science.  And, there is a lot of money around (think Koch brothers) to perpetuate myths, no matter how destructive they happen to be.

Here is a prime example of the kind of people who are considered authorities among the scientific illiterati:

It is a sad commentary on our education system that the products of that system are frequently incapable of using math or of understanding even the most fundamental scientific principles.  I recently coached a kid who was an exception to that rule, but had an experience that exemplifies why we are becoming a second rate nation.  He was valdictorian of his HS class and had his pick of colleges to attend.  He visited a very good engineering school that was courting him.  He loved everything about the school except that he couldn't understand the accents of any of the professors he met.  Our intellectual and scientific elite are no longer American by birth.

Doug

Jim H's picture
Jim H
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Jun 8 2009
Posts: 2379
Yes Mots...

Thank you for bringing this up...  I see a subtle shift starting to happen in some of the conversations here at PP.com.. whether it be about alternatives to the internet, community building, or even expatriation... and that is the idea that maybe we have to do this together, somehow.  Maybe we need to form a core of folks willing and able to run a private internet over HAM radios.  Maybe some of us should join Ken Pollinger into Costa Rica ... or maybe we should plan a group purchase of land and simple abodes for future use in an agricultural area of Chile.  

Whatever the actions may be, I think we are getting through with the talking stage, and even to some degree through with the individual actions stage, and in need of some means to organize as groups... not virtual groups.. but real groups, where we can put resources together in a synergistic way.  We all know how hard it is to build community locally... and this goes to Mots' point that most people have been so brainwashed that they don't even think anymore...  My own frustration in this vein runs deep.. and I will give you an example;  I am blessed to have a very sweet and idealistic woman living down the road from me who runs a small (1.5 acres, 15 shares) organically grown CSA farm on her parent's horse boarding property.  I have had a share since inception of the CSA format three years ago.  I initially tried to awaken her to the broader breakdown that was happening, and told her how happy I was that she had chosen to grow food locally.  I offered to pay her in equivalents of Silver if she so desired.  She pegged me as a loon and basically BANNED me from discussing "currency issues" while visiting the farm.  Our relationship has since normalized .. mainly because I simply don't discuss this anymore with her.  When your local small scale organic farmer acts this way...  and your next door neighbor works for Goldman Sachs (IT)... you know you are not going to have much luck with our kind of community building. 

So...  this is it for me... my community is here.  I need to get actions underway to develop, with others, either something in the NE section of the US, or something in South America.  Maybe PP.com could have some kind of online meeting place, or posting place, where folks who need to buy-in to a "monastery" could meet with folks who have a " monastery", like Ferralhen seems to have, that has some room and may be in need of some more incremental investment.  Match.com for the awakened.  Does this make sense?           

Mots's picture
Mots
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Jun 18 2012
Posts: 187
community building here

Jim :
Re: "So... this is it for me... my community is here. I need to get actions underway to develop with others, .... Does this make sense?"

Yes, this makes sense.
Of course, there are small groups forming and listed on this blog.  

I have two comments:
1. if the main challenge is dealing with an  information society that has been hijacked by TPTB and their govt servants, much CAN be done to address this over the internet as an internet grouping: form a banking / emailing / browsing barrier at a small group level where we can screen out or protect our privacy by our own defensive- group oriented software, coupled with a superior news and information gathering system that is not commercially corrupted by the financial needs of the big  players.  This seems like much work, a tall order.  I  cannot pursue this path, too busy.

2. even if we do NOT physically form a village between us, those of us with common goals can get together on weekends and work on things.  I have met a few ham radio guys and worked with them in Connecticut, Niagara falls, and New Jersey.  We make much progress  without having to actually buy land/houses and create our own Galt's Gulch.  In this context, I would like to work with some MD's to develop community (and family) medical kits and also communications to allow medical services via ham radio linkups.  These kinds of activities can TURN INTO a real community in a location, but I am mindful of all the experiences we learned from the comments of Charles  H Smith review on Intentional Communities.  Space, both physical and spiritual between members must be maintained.

Experts or enthusiasts in a given field can and should get together.  Anyone interested in ham radio, or solar electric power devices (off grid power for all home appliances using DIY circuits for example) I would like to meet, since I am working in that area.

Relationships with reliable, trusted friends OUTSIDE a community are important and actually desirable in some situations:  Judicial systems work best when the adjudicator is brought in from OUTSIDE the community to help resolve disputes (like in colonial US where we had Circuit Judges who went from town to town).  ALso, within the present grouping, there are some very outstanding technical experts in each field and each top talent person can and should make himself available inter-community.  A real expert can be of value, trade services with your community, while located outside.

I would like to have a list of such talents/persons as well as a list of would be mentors and would be apprentices for education, while acknowledging that the apprendice has a heavy burden initially to prove that he is real serious about learning and will not waste the expert's time (by studying free internet courses and learning the basics of a field before getting practical hands on training, for example).

Your comments resonart with me, and these are my thoughts in response.
best wishes

Mots

Mots's picture
Mots
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Jun 18 2012
Posts: 187
The Twilight of American Culture

Going Galt from the MSM: thank you Christopher for bringing up Berman and his writings.
I am obtaining Berman's book and would like to pursue this topic after reviewing his observations and insights.
Lets have a skype discussion about this book/topic.  Anyone interested in a skype discussion about Berman's writings on this problem and our individual Galtish possibilities?  I suggest a Friday or Sunday night (Eastern time 8 PM) in October. 

Anyone interested please contact me.  Let's have a book discussion and hopefully review our own responses.
Marvin

 

Harlzen's picture
Harlzen
Status: Bronze Member (Offline)
Joined: Apr 30 2012
Posts: 43
Going galt?

The phrase "going galt" is a symptom of how you got there.

If you have a system which believes everyone else is dragging you down, that it's every man for themselves, then what sort of society is going to result?

When citizens withdraw from politics corporations and cronies will happily take their place and start rebuilding the system for their own benefit. Which includes controlling the media and having a suitably desperate work-force that happily turns on each other rather than resolve issues.

... Thankfully it seems to be a mainly American view. My Brother worries a lot about such things (I don't like people enough) but his thoughts naturally turn to trying to inspire and strengthen his local community.

VitalyGo's picture
VitalyGo
Status: Member (Offline)
Joined: Aug 9 2013
Posts: 22
It's not that bad, cheer up

Cheer up guys. There are tremendous opportunities out there that can be very rewarding for people in stable countries. Now if you lived in Syria right now that might be a different story. 

deen's picture
deen
Status: Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 5 2013
Posts: 1
Depression it is worrying me
When i listen word depression i start worrying about it. I some times feel it but not daily but weekly. I am getting episodes every week. i have spent one full week to research on it and found it was not easy it treat. I noted some points and now going to psychiatrist.
 
Depression is not easy to treat but some self help methods are valuable like  meditation. It took me several weeks but i was doing it interestingly. I know how much pain it gives especially major depression or manic depression. It can take months for a person to get this pain over. So solid advice for thouse persons suffering from depression is to go to depression help not to look what will help and what not.
 
I took a depression test and sharing the link below and it was some what helpfull.
jdye51's picture
jdye51
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Feb 16 2011
Posts: 157
Welcome Deen

Glad to hear you are getting treatment for depression. Depression can be very painful and debilitating (I speak from experience). I think meditation is great - that and exercise can make a difference in mood.

Since you are on this site, I'm guessing that your concerns over the state of the world brought you here. I've found this a great place to share and to learn. I hope being able to hear other people's concerns will help you to know that you are not alone.

Let us know how you are doing.

Joyce

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Login or Register to post comments