A 4th E?

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ao's picture
ao
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A 4th E?
I'm just thinking out loud here in view of new stories of this sort increasingly coming to our attention so please bear with me.  A recent news event described the Sinoloa drug cartel threatening an Arizona police department after its officers had made a $250,000 drug bust.  The police officers were strongly advised to wear their vests at all times, have communications gear at the ready, and be vigilant indicating that the threat is a real and serious one.  Another news event in recent days described Mexican "pirates" robbing Texan fisherman on a lake on the Texas-Mexican border.  The Texas fishermen were advised by authorities to stay on their side of the lake for their safety.  We've all heard or read about the escalation of drug related violence along the Mexican border and how it has been spilling over onto to American soil more frequently.  George Friedman of Stratfor wrote in his book, "The Next 100 Years"  that a border war with Mexico was imminent in the future.  Victor David Hansen wrote in "Mexifornia" of the ill effects of illegal immigration.  Dick Lamm has written and spoken on social problems in America related to these cultural issues including his speech which was spread via e-mail entitled "I Have a Plan to Destroy America" which described, what he perceives to be, the dangers of multi-culturalism.
 
 
On the other side of the pond, Islamization is increasingly recognized as spreading throughout Europe.  I recall reading a PhD thesis stating that the dominant ethnic group in the world by 2050 would not be the Chinese nor the Indians but rather Arab Muslims.  While this paper proffered the implications of a peaceful Islam, if past history is any indication, this developing situation raises some concerns.  Recall that Muslim nations sided with Nazi Germany in WW II and with the Soviet Union during the Cold War.  Yassir Arafat, for example, was trained by Otto Skorzeny and other former SS officers in commando and terrorist tactics as well other Palestinians, Arabs, and even the Egyptian army.
 
I could go on and on about these two ethnic demographic issues.
 
The question I am asking is, "In addition to the 3Es, is a fourth E, namely Ethnic equilbrium (for want of a better term) also undergoing exponential changes that are potentially destabilizing to the American and/or Western way of life as we have known it?"  I realize this is a highly controversial topic but I also think it merits intelligent discussion as the long term implications are as enormous as the other Es.  I would hope that no one would resort to playing the fallback trump card of "racism" on this issue in an attempt to torpedo this topic.  
 
I welcome your commentaries and contributions.
 
My apologies for the run-on nature of these paragraphs.  I had originally written what I felt was a better version of this topic but then accidentally lost it.  I rewrote it quickly on a WP and then block copied it but unfortunately, Ican't separate the paragraphs (because I'm a computer idiot).
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Erik T.
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Re: A 4th E?

Hi ao,

Basically, I think you're right, but I don't think it's about ethnicity. It's about violence in general (ok, it doesn't start with an E).

The specific problems you've described happened to involve ethnic boundaries, but there are plenty of other examples where people are "loosing it" in the Celente sense. The guy who flew his plane into the IRS building - the flash mobs in Philly - the looting and general lawlessness that happened in New Orleans after Katrina.

IMHO, the issue is simply that as people loose what they use to have (and still feel entitled to), it's easy to rationalize doing things they would never do in "normal circumstances".

The scary part is that if you look at history, this can get really really bad. Germans are not inherently bad people. But somehow, in the wake of the Weimar hyperinflation, they were so beaten down in terms of their economic despair that a guy like Hitler seemed to make sense and was able to gain the support of enough of the people to take power and do horrible things. Americans like to think they are somehow superior and would never fall for such a terrible thing as Nazism the way the Germans did. But in reality they're falling for it already by putting up with a wholesale dismantling of their constitutional rights. Cameras are everywhere, police requiring fingerprints during routine traffic stops, increasing use of military-style raids over things as trivial as a routine drug case. More and more, most people are tolerating totalitarian government while a few people are going totalitarian on their own.

I think it's all a symptom of the first E.

Erik

 

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Re: A 4th E?

ao's mexican/muslim-baiting comment is indeed racist and has no place on PeakProsperity.com.  Accordingly, I have flagged it and trust that it will be removed by the moderator.

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Re: A 4th E?
Erik T. wrote:

<snip>

The scary part is that if you look at history, this can get really really bad. Germans are not inherently bad people. But somehow, in the wake of the Weimar hyperinflation, they were so beaten down in terms of their economic despair that a guy like Hitler seemed to make sense and was able to gain the support of enough of the people to take power and do horrible things. Americans like to think they are somehow superior and would never fall for such a terrible thing as Nazism the way the Germans did. But in reality they're falling for it already by putting up with a wholesale dismantling of their constitutional rights. Cameras are everywhere, police requiring fingerprints during routine traffic stops, increasing use of military-style raids over things as trivial as a routine drug case. More and more, most people are tolerating totalitarian government while a few people are going totalitarian on their own.

I think it's all a symptom of the first E.

Erik

Eric,

I call the fourth 'E' our Existence because the outcome will depend on how we choose to deal with the three other Es.

Unfortunately we seem to be at a point in our collective Existence that we want our Government to protect us from that which we fear which results in a willingness to have increasing restrictions placed on our liberties. It is seemingly done willingly like the frog in the pot. "Go ahead and turn up the heat but do it slowly so it won't hurt to much."

OPINION and BELIEF: In the End (perhaps a fifth E!) it will be our ability face the truth of our predicament and adapt that will determine what sort of an Existence we will have.

Coop

 

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Re: A 4th E?

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Re: A 4th E?

AO,

Thanks for bringing this up.  I personally don't think this is a racist issue as it's a general concern regarding ALL races and ethnicities as well as religions.  In other words, it's humanity that has the issues, not a specific type of person.  

This argument has been going on for many centuries and won't change in the near future IMO.  The friendly invasions of other ethnic groups has brought down many a nations/empires over the centuries and will continue to do so no matter what we do.  I mean "we" as in the USA and our current situation with immigration.  The fight is over IMO.  Unless we put up a wall and enforce it Soviet style, the southern countries and their citizens will continue to immigrate illegally and integrate their culture into ours, which in turn will change all dynamics of American life.  

And I saw a similar study concerning the Arab Muslim movement and birth rate.  If you go to London at this time and compare it to 10-15 years ago, it's amazing the change!  I honestly don't recognize the city any longer for being British!  There are many more darker skinned persons than the stereotypical Brits walking around.  The face of Southern Britain is very much changed.  Which means, the culture of Britain that we grew up learning and seeing is no longer!  Is this good?  I honestly can't say.  Can it be reversed?  I don't think so.  It's the way of the world and humanity.  

And no culture embraces change that comes from outside, no matter if the change is good or bad.  

Anyway, bottom line is that the "American Way of Life" is probably dead as we knew it.  At least as a whole.  Obviously, there will be pockets and communities that will continue to embrace the "old way of life", just as you'll find pockets/communities in the Southern US that still hold onto much of their heritage from before the Civil War.  But overall, the United States and the Western World are changing rapidly.  Exponentially?  Don't know.  But to fight it is to waste resources on something that really can't be saved.  At least it's never been saved before that I know, in the history of man.

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Re: A 4th E?
ckessel wrote:

Unfortunately we seem to be at a point in our collective Existence that we want our Government to protect us from that which we fear which results in a willingness to have increasing restrictions placed on our liberties. It is seemingly done willingly like the frog in the pot. "Go ahead and turn up the heat but do it slowly so it won't hurt to much."

OPINION and BELIEF: In the End (perhaps a fifth E!) it will be our ability face the truth of our predicament and adapt that will determine what sort of an Existence we will have.

If we interpret the Government's activities as attempts to protect us, and without pause think them logical, will you say we want that protection?  Doesn't everyone (willingly) accept some things without first wanting them?

In order to face truths and adapt adequately, we establish each truth, don't stop at appearances.  More likely to determine what sort of an Existence we will have is our understanding of what kind of being we are.

The industrial age was about reducing people to things.  This thread (re: #1) is a monument to its success.

David

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Re: A 4th E?
debu wrote:

ao's mexican/muslim-baiting comment is indeed racist and has no place on PeakProsperity.com.  Accordingly, I have flagged it and trust that it will be removed by the moderator.

I personally take great offense in this statement.  There have been major conferences on these very issues by respected government leaders.  Are you saying that all the people discussing these issues are racist or if one brings up these issues they are racist?  These false racist accusations simply serve to stifle dialogue on an important issue.  I'd hoped we could rise above this type of immature response.  I'm going to flag your comment for this very reason.

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Re: A 4th E?

As an addendum to this post, I'd like to comment on a related issue that was part of the reason I wrote the post.  The high school I attended 40 years ago was a reasonably good high school (and actually, the honors classes were excellent) with a student body with mixed racial characteristics including white, African-American, Hispanic-American, and Asian-American students.  A couple years ago I re-visited the area, drove by my old high school with my daughter, and was surprised at the transformation of the student body.  I got online and found that the student body had changed to 45% African-American, 45% Hispanic-American, 8% Middle Eastern (primarily Moroccan), 2% Asian-American, and 0% white.  What concerned me what that the school had fallen to third from bottom in academic ranking in a heavily populated state.  Certainly, the poor standing of the school is not good for the students nor is it good for the region nor the nation as a whole.  An additional question is, what can be done to change this downward educational trend?  From what I've read, money alone is not the issue.  Throwing money at schools with these problems has been spectacularly unsuccessful in the past.  Yet apparently, throwing money is what has being done.  I've just read where they've recently built a new 185 million dollar high school.  Spending such a huge sum of money would appear to be just another unsustainable component of one of the Es (Economy).  Knowing the area, I can't fathom how they possibly expect to pay for a school of this expense.  Again, your comments are welcome (except for the race card comments).    

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Re: A 4th E?
Erik T. wrote:

Basically, I think you're right, but I don't think it's about ethnicity. It's about violence in general (ok, it doesn't start with an E).

Certainly, the violence which can potentially result is the biggest problem and I agree that Economics is a core issue.  With regards to ethnicity, I agree that it isn't about ethnicity per se.  I'm not sure how to express this best but as I attempted to state, I think ethnic equilibrium is an issue.  The rapidity of change in the population of one ethnic group in relationship to other ethnic groups via both reproduction rates and immigration influx (whether legal or illegal) engenders social changes and stresses which create disturbances in the economic status quo.  As Logan's Run so correctly pointed out, these types of changes have occurred throughout history but I just wonder what the best ways are to facilitate the transition such that it can be a positive event for all parties concerned rather than a disruptive and fractionating occurrence. 

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Re: A 4th E?

Basically I don't think there is another "E" here in that I don't see the linkage to the other "E"'s.  History is full of violence going way way back.  Here is, for example, a list of massacres from Wikipedia (oh no, not Wikipedia again) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres which is probably not any where near complete.  You will notice that many if not most are related to ethnic divisions.  Ethnic migration patterns also go way way back to the original migration out of Africa hundreds of thousands of years ago.

It is interesting to think about how ethnic violence and migration patterns will change when we reach the resource limits predicted by Dr. CM.  It's easy to predict there will be more violence but more cooperation is possible.

If how free we are in the US was a function of how free we are to complain about it, then I'd say we're still pretty free.  And again, looking back, we're lucky we don't live under the corrupt police department in LA in the 1920's.  Or got massacred by the Colorado National Guard around the same time. Or got blacklisted in the 1950's etc.  Don't misunderstand, you have to be vigilent, you have to fight for it over and over, but you shouldn't at the same time dismiss things as totalitarian and give up.

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Re: A 4th E?

Here is a brief audio clip from a recent Q&A session with Stoneleigh from The Automatic Earth

Play mp3

She is speaking in regards to Europe in this clip, but I think it basically applies to any nation. During the Great Depression, huge numbers of Illegal Mexicans were deported because they were competing for a shrinking supply of jobs. 

Look out Erik....the Hong Kong authorities will be rounding up all the round-eyes and deporting them in the future, LOL.

Edit: There seems to be a problem with my dropbox server, so the mp3 won't play. I will be uploading a video to youtube with her entire presentation in a day or so, and I will post it here.

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Re: A 4th E?

A sovereign nation has the right and responsibility to secure it's borders.  We have a major problem with crime, unemployment, health care and social services in part because we are deluged by illegal immigrants.  Instead of fighting phony wars and occupying Muslim countries we should be protecting the border with Mexico.

We have by far the largest military budget in the world but we can't even defend our land.

Larry  

 

 

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Re: A 4th E?
DrKrbyLuv wrote:

A sovereign nation has the right and responsibility to secure it's borders.  We have a major problem with crime, unemployment, health care and social services in part because we are deluged by illegal immigrants.  Instead of fighting phony wars and occupying Muslim countries we should be protecting the border with Mexico.

We have by far the largest military budget in the world but we can't even defend our land.

Larry  

This is the type of situation I was referencing.  It is unconscionable that we would cede sovereign control of U.S. territory to foreign entities because of fear.  Yet it is being done as this video points out.

Indeed, so many of the actions being taken by our federal government are irrational if  we view those actions as being taken in an attempt to improve the situation in our country.  I have a hard time, however, believing that our leaders are that stupid.  On the other hand, if their actions have a more sinister motivation, many of their actions make perfect sense.  Perhaps there is some truth to what this individual says.

http://www.lvrj.com/opinion/obama-s-agenda--overwhelm-the-system-95716764.html 

Certainly, if one were trying to destroy our country from within, the agenda being followed by our federal government would be an effective strategy.  Unfortunately, it seems to be working.    

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Re: A 4th E?

You know damn well AO why our leaders aren't doing anything about illegal immigration in this country!!! (as well as many European countries)  But unfortunately, too many members of this site have decided that what's in front of their eyes is the illusion of nut jobs.  Which in turn makes true discussion of this issue, nil.  

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Re: A 4th E?

Canada has a stated Federal Government policy of promoting multiculturalism through immigration with the Canadian Multicultural Act of 1988. Our hate crimes act dates to 1989 but recognizes several other identifying characteristics beyond race, where individuals can be charged with a hate crime. This act balances on a fine line between free speech and bigotry that incites violence. Simple assault may in addition include a hate crime charge, if the circumstances warrant.

On balance I think our multicultural policy is working well, although there are problems when recent immigrants bring their hatreds and prejudices with them, most notably the terrorist bombing of Air India flight 182 in 1985. Unfortunately the personal beliefs of our current Prime Minister have revamped our foreign policy in many ways, most notably as the most rabid pro-Israel state much to the dismay of the National Council on Canada-Arab relations.

Mixed marriages (including common-law) account for 4% of relationships increasing with an apparent 10 year doubling interval. My personal experience is that the Canadian mosaic is more finely grained in some regions than others and there are substantial differences across Canada of racial distribution. For example the vast majority of Blacks live in Eastern Canada, Nova-Scotians from the Freedom train and Quebecois from French speaking Africa.

Throughout history one sees politicians and religious leaders deriding those who are different, for their own personal advantage. Racial and religious tension, also fuelled by nationalist fevour, has been responsible for most of our past and current wars. People migrate for the simple reason they hope to establish a better life for themselves and their children and not because they are part of some fifth column of Islamists intent on the destruction of Europe. However it is critical that they accept leaving behind some of their cultural beliefs, particularly those that conflict with equality and autonomy that are fundamental to an equal and just society. A recent tragic case in Canada involved a 16 year old girl of Pakistani descent who was murdered by her father and brother for failing to follow their orders and consorting with her friends in Western style dress. Other cultural tenets, such as the hijab, are of less consequence to the general society and the recent refusal of Quebec to provide driving licences without full face exposure could have been handled better, by for example regulating the use of a fingerprint instead. The same solution is possible for the Hutterites in Alberta, who now plan to drive unlicenced.

I see the problems along the US Southern border as a direct outcome of 16 years of NAFTA. The agreement was made between economically unequal partners allowing a flood of subsidized US corporate food to displace small farmers, destabilizing the society and the economy, and providing the environment for organized crime.

As the economy worsens and those who have little blame those who have less I see the potential for violent social unrest. Most here won't recall the race riots beginning in 1965 that destroyed many inner cities but it was really ugly. Which brings me to Martin Luther King's central message. Its not a racial problem that is the issue but one of systemic economic inequality.

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Re: A 4th E?

Thank you, SteveW, for that very thoughtful remark.  ErikT has it exactly right: growing ethno/cultural tensions are more a symptom than a cause of the daunting array of problems we face.  As things become dicier the tendency to scapegoat certain races or cultures must be challenged at every turn. 

The three E’s on our plate are quite enough as it is.  Let’s keep our focus on them as individuals, and collectively, on this constructive site that ChrisM makes available to us.

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