Fish in a Barrel: Las Vegas shooter

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Wendy S. Delmater's picture
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Fish in a Barrel: Las Vegas shooter

Opening a new discussion here about the Las Vegas shooter who sprayed automatic gunfire on an open-air concert from the 32nd floor of the Mandalay. 

I'm not doing much to pull things together here until we have more info (my back is out and I'm in serious pain) but just want to say I find it interesting that everyone who sees this tragedy is interpreting it in a different way. Gun control advocates see one thing, 2nd amendment advocates see another, and they are fighting among themselves before all the facts are in. 

If there was ever a "wait until we have all the facts" situation, this is it. 

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Something is very wrong with this story

So far, we're getting the "lone nut" angle.  All the LEO statements and newspaper articles are reinforcing that.

Here's what I wrote yesterday about a clip I found on-line:

At ~ the 4:50 mark onwards, you can clearly see what appear to be shots fired from, oh, say the tenth or eleventh floor.

https://www.facebook.com/cori.langdon/videos/vb.1655872214/1021215742280...

I see muzzle flashes and that is *not* the 33rd floor.  Unless someone had a strobe going off at about the time of the shooting, I don't have another good explanation for this.

To which rector responded:

Chris,

In my years of firing rifles in the dark (US Army Infantry) I have seen a lot of muzzleflash at night, and I don't believe that was muzzle flash.  It seemed to consistent, too disconnected from the sound, and too slow.  However, I have no idea what in the world it could be other than a bad driver on an LED bulb.  

It might be good to start collecting these videos for examination later.  I am getting the same disconnected feeling I got when I watched the buildings fall on 9/11.  Nothing makes sense and the answers don't make it better.

Rector

To which I would have two responses.

1) The camera used is pretty cheap/unable to handle night scenes well.  Blooming and flare are prominent throughout.  So perhaps the muzzle flashes (if that's what they are) are not showing as you would see them in real life, with your more dynamically adjustable eyes.

2) The sound signature could well be off due to the distance involved.  Even a hundred yards puts a noticeable gap between light and sound.  I judge that distance to be more than that.

This morning, on Twitter, I came across a second angle for that same muzzle flash.  Much more convincing.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BZv4ZmfDHHl/

Unless this represents some twisted individual doing some video spoofing to mess with our minds (always possible), or this is a crazy reflection,  this is beginning to really stink.  

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The Second video has the right cadence

That DOES look like muzzle flash.  I hope more and better videos emerge in the days ahead to bring additional clarity to the situation.  Given the fact that there were 30,000 + smartphones in the area, I suspect that there will be many more surfacing.

Rector

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Movie Theme: The Package w Gene Hackman, Tommy Lee Jones

Webster Tarpley recommended the 1989 movie The Package staring Gene Hackman and (a very young) Tommy Lee Jones.

In this movie, Hackman, an army sergeant, escorts a soldier, Thomas Boyette (played by Jones) home from the Army base in Germany to the US for his court martial.  But during their trip home, the very practical Hackman starts to smell a rat.  The rat gets bigger when Hackman is mugged and Boyette escapes and dissappears. Hackman gets it that the mugging was not random.  Hackman comes to understand that some of "the authorities" may be in on the scam sets out to find Boyette alone.

Meanwhile, a second story line is developing around another person with the same name: Thomas Boyette.  Our second Thomas Boyette is the real one.  A soldier if low intelligence who is given the job of infiltrating a communist group, passing out leaflets and establishing a very visible public presence as "a communist."  He believes he is gathering information on the communists for his case handler--but it turns out that he is not.  He is being set up to be the patsy for an assassination that the other Thomas Boyette is about to commit.

It is a story that illustrates the care with which an intelligence agency positions both the assassin, and prepares the life story of the patsy.

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One more angle with low level flashes and sounds

https://www.facebook.com/genelaratonda/videos/1590101611036464/

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Bump Fire Matches?

The bump fire can create a very close approximation of the cyclic rate of a full machine gun.  But with noticeable slight gaps in the timing which seem to match what I heard in several spots.

Here's the AR-15 with a bump stock and a drum mag.  The action starts at ~2:20

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Paul Joseph Watson with some early sane reasoning

Let's not freak out, yet.  Let's have the details come out. Let's apply some unemotional logic and reasoning.

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M240B? (copied from Catalonia thread)
Time2help wrote:

Cyclic rate seems to match. Anyone with crew fired weapons experience feel free to chime in.

Another anomaly, at 2:23 and 2:40: What, exactly, does the man filming via cellphone say?

Rector wrote:

Sure sounds like it.  Of course someone would have to have pulled the tracers out of the belt.  If true, it will not be possible to hide the 7.62 bullet holes all over the place.  The caliber will come out and I'm going to guess 7.62X39.

If it is a M240B, there are profound implications.  Ours weren't issued until the late 1990's and so almost NONE are in the Class III NFA transferable inventory.  Only a Class III Dealer SOT (Special Occupational Taxpayer) could possibly have one as a dealer "sample".  I found ONE for sale as a post 86 dealer sample and it was $27,500.00! 

I would also have a hard time believing one could be found on the "black market" as they just aren't available through civilian channels.  

That being said, the sound and cadence were compellingly similar.

Rector

 

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Some early facts, but not from US MSM (from Daily Mail)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4942856/Las-Vegas-gunman-SIXTEEN-guns-TEN-suitcases.html

"Bump fire" rifles found but no true, belt-fed machine guns like M240.

Seems like wise, legitimate uses of police armored vehicles.  Too bad one equipped with a real M240 wasn't at the venue when the shooting started.

Maybe he had a brain tumor... or dementia.

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No muzzle flashes

Interestingly, from this angle I didn't see any muzzle flashes.  Same is true from a number of vids I've seen.  Suggests that those shown in the above linked vids may have just been reflections, video editing or perhaps the gunman was shooting from deep in the room so that flashes could only be seen from relatively narrow angles.  It would be interesting to see where the victims were concentrated from an aerial perspective.

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oops dup

duplicate

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Stinks to high heaven

Just read through the "early facts" from the Daily Mail article...nice narrative for pushing a pre-packaged agenda.

Calling bullshit on this one...add it to the list.

Welcome to the Occupied States of America.

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For you conspiracy theorists...

I don't know how many of you follow the Dilbert cartoonist Scott Adams, but he does some rather interesting Periscopes. 

Scott Adams Periscope: LV shooter thought experiment

This one is about 40 minutes long, and to get the whole impact you really need to listen to/watch the whole thing. He brings up some points to ponder. 

And he was immediately attacked afterward. Hm. 

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Police Scanner Audio

Listen.

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Strategy of Tension

I do not know if the LV mass shooting event comes from the proverbial "lone deranged gunman" or will eventually come to be regarded as an element of the "Strategy of Tension."   I believe that it is good to know about this strategy so that we can see it when it shows up before our eyes.

Daniele Ganser, a Swiss historian on faculty at University of Basil, first wrote about it in his book NATOs Secret Armies:  Operation GLADIO and Terrorism in Western Europe.

He wrote an abbreviated paper on this topic that is published in the Journal of 9/11 Studies.

I'll summarize by extracting his main points and interjecting comments in brackets.

The “Strategy of Tension” in the Cold War Period*

In this essay, I will not deal directly with 9/11 but will look at what we can learn from history. I will report on some of the newest academic data about secret warfare during the Cold War. A secret military strategy that targets domestic populations with terrorism does indeed exist. It is called the “strategy of tension.” And it was implemented by Western democracies.  

[SP--as stated in the last paragraph below, the ultimate goal of the strategy was to cause the frightened population to turn to the state for security--i.e.--it is a strategy for growing the police/surveillance/control systems.  Disarming the population, hyper-arming the police, and conducting global citizen surveillance "for your protection."]

In its essence, the strategy of tension targets the emotions of human beings and aims to spread maximum fear among the target group.Tension” refers to emotional distress and psychological fear, whereas “strategy” refers to the technique of bringing about such distress and fear. A terrorist attack in a public place, such as a railway station, a market place, or a school bus, is the typical technique through which the strategy of tension is implemented. After the attack—and this is a crucial element—the secret agents who carried out the crime blame it on a political opponent by removing and planting evidence.

It must be noted that the targets of the strategy of tension are not the dead and the wounded ... but the millions of people who survive physically unharmed but emotionally distressed. [SP--DaveF has described this as "killing the chicken to scare the monkey."  And "All terrorism is theater."]

The strategy of tension forms part of what is called “psychological warfare” or PSYWAR. As the term indicates, this form of warfare does not attack human bodies ,,,[but] our human ability to think and feel. If a group can get access to our thinking and our feeling without our noticing, it can exercise great power over us. Once we notice that our psyches are being manipulated through psychological warfare, the technique loses some of its effect.  [SP--and this is why I write about it!  Understanding the mechanism renders it much less powerful.] ...

I will now give some historical examples of strategy-of-tension terrorism. Arguably the best historical data available today on the strategy of tension come from Italy, where judges, parliamentarians, and academics together continue to make great efforts to understand and describe this secret strategy.

Judge Casson and the Peteano Terror

Italian Judge Felice Casson rediscovered the strategy during his investigation into a number of terrorist attacks Italy had suffered in the 1960s, 1970s, and 1980s. According to Casson, the best documented historical case in which the strategy of tension was implemented occurred in the Italian village of Peteano. There, on May 31, 1972, three members of the Italian paramilitary police, the Carabinieri, were lured to an abandoned Fiat 500 by an anonymous phone call and were killed when they opened the hood of the car, thereby triggering a bomb. For many years, this terrorist attack was blamed on the Red Brigades, a left-wing terror organization in Italy. But after Casson reopened the case, he found that the Catholic neofascist Vincenzo Vinciguerra, a militant anti-communist, had carried out the crime.

Casson also found to his great surprise that Vinciguerra had not operated alone, but had been protected by members of the Italian military intelligence service. ... Judge Casson arrested Vinciguerra, who on trial in 1984 confirmed that it had been relatively easy for him to escape and hide because large segments of the Italian security apparatus, including the SISMI, had shared his anti-communist convictions and had, therefore, silently supported crimes that discredited the Italian left and especially the Communist Party, which was quite strong. After the bombing, Vinciguerra recalled, “A whole mechanism came into action.... [T]he Carabinieri, the Minister of the Interior, the customs services, and the military and civilian intelligence services accepted the ideological reasoning behind the attack.

Casson found that by this crime and other attacks being blamed on the leftwing Red Brigades, the primary political enemy, the Italian Communist Party, was discredited. The directors of the military intelligence service and politicians argued after the crime that the “Communist danger” justified increased military spending and a reduction of civil liberties in the interest of state security. In this way, the strategy of tension, as executed through the Peteano terror, spread fear across Italy, discredited a political opponent, and allowed for the implementation of conservative security policies. It was very effective, for nobody knew at the time that the intelligence services had themselves supported the crime.

... Peteano was not an isolated tragedy in Italy, but part of a long series of terrorist attacks that had started in 1969. On December 12 of that year, four bombs exploded in public places in Rome and Milan, killing 16 and maiming and wounding 80 innocent civilians, with most of the deaths and injuries occurring in Milan’s Piazza Fontana. After the massacre, according to the rules of the strategy of tension, the Italian military intelligence service SID planted bomb parts in the villa of well-known leftist editor Giangiacomo Feltrinelli in order to blame the terror on the Communists and other members of the extreme left.  Only years later was it revealed that Feltrinelli had absolutely nothing at all to do with the crime and that, in reality, the Italian extreme right, including Ordine Nuovo, had carried out the atrocity in order to promote the strategy of tension.

...

Major attacks came in 1974, a couple years after the Peteano tragedy. On May 28, a bomb exploded at an anti-fascist rally for which 3,000 had gathered in the Italian city of Brescia, killing 8 and injuring and maiming 102 people.   Neofascist Vincenzo Vinciguerra explained after his arrest:

“You had to attack civilians, the people, women, children, innocent people, unknown people far removed from any political game.”  ... The reason was quite simple [he continued]. They were supposed to force these people, the Italian public, to turn to the State to ask for greater security. This is the political logic that lies behind all the massacres and the bombings which remain unpunished, because the State cannot convict itself or declare itself responsible for what happened.

 

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Re: Strategy of Tension

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Re: M240B
Rector wrote:

Sure sounds like it.  Of course someone would have to have pulled the tracers out of the belt.  If true, it will not be possible to hide the 7.62 bullet holes all over the place.  The caliber will come out and I'm going to guess 7.62X39.

7.62X51 NATO (308 US)

 

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I know what caliber a 240 is. . .

I was guessing he was using an AK or AKM variant b/c the rate of fire sounded slower than normal (assuming it's not a 240).  Now it appears it was a bump stock which would explain the low cyclic rate.

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Paddock

Wonder what meds he has/was on?

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Such stupid sh*t. . .

The labyrinth of legal definitions on what constitutes "full auto" a "firearm" or a "short barrelled rifle" have created a cottage industry of legal (in word only) substitutes for firearm features otherwise outlawed.  The "arm brace" comes to mind with regard to SBRs (short barrelled rifles).  Easy targets for legislation because they only exist by virtue of ATF letter declaring them to be "legal".  

It has always been my opinion that these devices serve only to infuriate the anti gun crowd and contribute little to the firearms world.  Bump fire stocks are stupid toys to most people who own them and "bump fire" has been around long before the stocks were invented or deemed legal by ATF.  I would say the SlideFire company is in for some dark days.

Rector

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A healthy dose of skepticism and a keen investigatory mind

https://westernrifleshooters.wordpress.com/2017/10/03/aesop-on-las-vegas/

Conclusions:

1. We need a lot more information.

2. This is highly suspicious.

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Scanner traffic

That police scanner video, as the author said, was cleaned up so it could be presented in an understandable way in a relatively short format. If you've never listened to police radio traffic during a large critical incident like this, it would be impossible for me to convey to you how chaotic it is and how many things are said turn out not to have been accurate (eg. number of suspects, where the suspects are, where the suspects went, etc.).  Keep that in mind when listening.  There are always erroneous reports, even from police on the scene.  Chaos, emotion and adrenaline (not to mention echoes, poor lighting, mistaken identities, human fallibility, etc.) cause those dynamics.  Sorting through it all afterwards is a huge task and there are always loose ends that never get tracked down.

Regarding the issue of multiple shooters in various places in Mandalay Bay (besides where the one dead shooter was) have to include evidence that other windows were broken/shot through, or could be opened and fired out of without breaking the glass.  I don't think the windows in the building could be opened without being disassembled and removed.

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The whole event stinks to high hell

The surprising thing to me is that it all seems so ineptly laid out.  Either the people who planned this did a very amateurish job, or they have a blazing contempt for the intelligence level of the general population.  

If the ramshackle nature of this event is deliberate, what is that supposed to accomplish?  Further erosion of respect for TPTB and the MSM?  If more and more of the population openly disbelieves/jeers at the manufactured narrative, what's the upside for TPTB?

Or, are there competing factions amongst TPTB?  Could this be an example of such a conflict?  Somebody resorted to less-than-smooth operators because they don't have official access to top-level craft practitioners?

I'm not the world's most paranoid guy, but I'm no ostrich either.  This story has so many angles that don't add up.  I'm wondering if we're not seeing conflict between elite factions breaking out (with a clumsily-arranged patsy and a mass murder intended to advance somebody's agenda).  

(NB:  I don't see the gun control people getting too much traction here.  Just wait for a whole phalanx of family and friends of victims to step forward and demand this event not be used as a pretext to weaken or destroy the 2nd Amendment.  I'm fully expecting such in the next 48 hours or so.)

What a world.  VIVA -- Sager

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Perhaps the real target?

Speaker Paul Ryan Pulls SHARE Act From Consideration (TruthAboutGuns)

Quote:

As predicted by, well, anyone with any knowledge of gun politics and the Congressional sausage making process, House Speaker Paul Ryan announced that he’s pulled the SHARE Act — a measure that would have greatly de-regulated suppressors — off the table.

From cnbc.com:

House Speaker Paul Ryan on Tuesday said Republicans have no scheduled plan to vote on a bill that would ease rules on gun silencers, in the wake of the deadliest shooting in modern U.S. history.

Reports had suggested the House could vote on the National Rifle Association-backed legislation, known as the SHARE Act, soon.

“That bill is not scheduled now,” Ryan told reporters. “I don’t know when it’s going to be scheduled.”

Quote:

...the Hearing Protection Act was scheduled come before a House committee on June 15. However, on the 14th, James Hodgkinson opened fire on a group of GOP legislators practicing for the annual Congressional baseball game. The HPA was then shelved....

Quote:

A hearing on the bill was previously delayed this summer when a shooter opened fire at a congressional baseball practice, severely wounding House Majority Whip Steve Scalise.

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So...

Your speculation is that gun control advocates would commit mass murder to delay legislation that has little chance of passing anyway?  Isn't that a bit far-fetched?  

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Strobe light

It's a constant, blinking light....

https://twitter.com/i/videos/914847463424507904?embed_source=facebook

The reason it looks like the flashing light stops in a previous video posted is because the camera is refocusing. 

Here is the strobe light mentioned in an interview...

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Another perspective

Around 1:20 the CNN footage of interest starts.

What is the typical frame capture rate of a modern cell phone camera?

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Five Glaring Inconsistencies in the Vegas Shooting

 

Five Glaring Inconsistencies in the Vegas Shooting

that Need to be Addressed

By  Matt Agorist  October 3, 2017

There is a fine line to walk, however, between questioning everything and automatically assuming everything is a government conspiracy or false flag. …

Every time an event happens it is important to keep an open mind, look for inconsistencies, try to find contradictions or impossibilities made to look possible, and always avoid jumping to conclusions.

1. Stephen Paddock did not fit the bill for a mass murderer.

This is perhaps the most glaring of all the inconsistencies as most of the recent psychopath mass murderers in recent history made moves prior to killing that were consistent with being a psychopathic killer. Paddock did not. Most odd was the fact that Paddock was rich. He was an accountant, lived in a half million dollar home in a retirement community and had no criminal record.

Paddock’s brother, Eric Paddock was equally stunned to hear about what his brother had done as he had just talked to him. “We’re still just completely befuddled. Dumbstruck,” he said.   He described his brother as having “no history of violence. No history of anything couldn’t give a s*** less about politics, religion, pointy hatted people etc, etc. He just wanted to get a freaking royal flush.”

Eric said he had last talked to his brother when he called down to Florida to see how his mother was making out after losing power from hurricane Irma. How many mass murderers call to check on their mother before going on to slaughter dozens of innocent people?

2. Paddock was still playing with his girlfriend’s casino card trying to rack up points the night of the shooting.

Eric Paddock said how his brother “loved to gamble. He loved — when I say loved — it was a job. It was fun because people were nice to him.”   Paddock was a regular in Vegas. He’d even been captured on surveillance footage in the Cosmopolitan Casino in 2011 in which he was seen falling. He later tried to sue the hotel for getting hurt and even then everyone remained cordial and nice to him.

Prior to the shooting, Paddock had been at the Mandalay Bay casino for four days and had not done anything out of the ordinary to garner the attention of hotel security.   He had simply been gambling. While it is possible that he was simply blending in to maintain his cover and wait for the moment to strike, the fact that he used his girlfriend’s slot machine card seems completely out of the ordinary.

For those that don’t know, slot cards or gambling cards are ways casinos track loyal customers. When you rack up enough points, they will comp a room or a meal for you. Paddock was playing with this card—essentially planning for future comps—on the very night he opened fire on a crowd of 22,000 people.

Blending in is one thing, but racking up points to plan for future benefits on the night you are going to commit mass murder seems glaringly inconsistent.

3. Surveillance footage of Paddock inside the hotel has yet to be released.

In most mass shootings, within 24-hours, we usually see at least a still image of the perpetrator as captured by the building’s surveillance cameras. In Paddock’s case, as of the time this article was published, none of this footage has been released.

Why not release at least a single shot of Paddock walking into the hotel lobby?

4. Neither room service, house cleaning, surveillance footage, nor security saw him bring hundreds of pounds of guns and ammo into the room.

Original reports noted that Paddock had somewhere around ten firearms in his hotel room after it was breached by SWAT. However, reports as of Tuesday morning now say authorities recovered a whopping 23 weapons.

Police noted that only one of these weapons was a handgun, meaning that 22 of them were long-form rifles or shotguns.

Just to put the sheer logistics of bringing in these guns into perspective, here is an image of 23 rifles. [Though NOT the guns Paddock had, just a collection of 23 guns.]

 

This image shows just the guns, not the hundreds of rounds of ammo to fill them. [I would estimate more like 2,000+ rounds of ammo based on the number of people hit.]

He had brought “in excess of 10” suitcases to the suite over several days, Sheriff Joe Lombardo said. Yet no one thought this to be suspicious?  Housekeepers said they “saw no signs of anything” suspicious, Nevada Rep. Dina Titus told CNN.

Paddock had a “pretty well hidden” arsenal, she said.  Authorities believe Paddock brought the weapons into the hotel by himself but did not provide specifics.

5. If Paddock acted alone, who was this mystery woman who warned everyone they were going to die 45 minutes before the shooting?

Caught on video after the shooting was an eyewitness report given to a local NBC affiliate in which a woman was described to have warned of the attack. The eyewitness claims to have seen a woman push her way to the first row of the concert roughly 45 minutes before the shooting began and levy threats indicating that everyone would soon be dead.

“So there was a lady who pushed her way forward into the first row and she started messing with another lady. She told us we were all going to die tonight – it was about forty-five minutes before the shots were fired,” the witness states.

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So what could explain those five things?

SP, suppose the guy had debts to the level that he was going to get killed, and he blamed the whole Vegas culture. So he sends his GF away, and gambles, hoping to win enough to pay off his debts.

He fails, and the girl he has on his arm hears him say "they're all going to die". She tries to attract attention and help, but meanwhile he slips away and loses her, heading up to his room. So then she puts two and two together, and tries to call the whole concert off with a warning...

Do I think that happened?

No.

Maybe it was a maid who HAD had suspicions, and satisfied herself that something untoward was happening. But she's an illegal alien, and disappeared before she could be arrested...

There's millions of possibilities. I don't think I have the answer.

And COULD it be conspiracy? Certainly. But I don't presume it. I guess someone should.

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GUN CONTROL NOBODY DEBATES

Aloha! It is predictable that Congress and mostly liberals go into a frenzy of "gun control" debate and grandstanding. They at least waited until the shooter was dead!

My position is how can we have serious "gun control" debates when we are the world's largest arms dealer?

Why kill 59 when we can kill millions?

The hypocrisy is clearly noteworthy! When politicians quit exporting gun violence to other nations then maybe they can lecture us about our morals!

Lest we forget the victims of government overreach here and the world. 

I have friends in Las Vegas but none were injured. One was at the concert but did not get shot but he saw numerous bodies on the ground. VEGAS STRONG!

 

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Diazepam

https://www.infowars.com/las-vegas-gunman-was-prescribed-drug-linked-to-violent-outbursts/

Las Vegas massacre gunman Stephen Paddock was taking a drug linked to violent outbursts in yet another example of a mass shooter being on a pharmaceutical medication that causes aggressive behavior.

According to the Las Vegas Review Journal, Paddock “was prescribed an anti-anxiety drug in June that can lead to aggressive behavior”.

The drug in question – diazepam – more commonly known as its brand name Valium – was prescribed by Henderson physician Dr. Steven Winkler on June 21 and Paddock purchased 50 10-milligram diazepam tablets from a Walgreens store in Reno on the same day. Paddock was also previously prescribed the same drug in 2016.

The article cites DrugAbuse.com, which warns that diazepam can trigger “aggressive behavior” and “psychotic experiences,” which can be amplified by alcohol consumption.

“If somebody has an underlying aggression problem and you sedate them with that drug, they can become aggressive,” said Dr. Mel Pohl, chief medical officer of the Las Vegas Recovery Center. “It can disinhibit an underlying emotional state. … It is much like what happens when you give alcohol to some people … they become aggressive instead of going to sleep.”

A 2015 study published in World Psychiatry found that teens convicted of homicide were 45 per cent more likely to kill during time periods when they were on benzodiazepines.

 

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