The whole Catalan mess

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Wendy S. Delmater's picture
Wendy S. Delmater
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The whole Catalan mess

Over 800 people confirmed injured by the police trying to stop the #CatalanReferendum - a hashtag you should use if you want to see what's happening on Twitter or Facebook. The era of the state and "Approved" (read: complicit) media hiding the truth is over. Nearly everyone has a phone with a camera and video camera in it, and access to social media. 

Short version: the Catalan province is basically the economic powerhouse of Spain, sort of like their Texas. They want out. Since a huge amount of the government's revenues come from taxing the province, Spain does not want them to leave. 

Below two pictures of local Catalan firefighters acting as a line of human shields to protect the local protestors from Spanish riot police: 

Not to mention the police raids on polling stations, all on video. 

 

Here they are carrying off a granny, 

...and as the saying goes, "This will not play well in Peoria (or the heartland equivalent in your country).

There's even a video of the police beating a wounded man on the way to the hospital. If I find it again, I'll post. 

And last but not least here are Spanish police beating a guy in a WHEELCHAIR. 

To put it mildly, Spanish PM Ranjoy may have survived one recent vote of confidence but after this I cannot see how he will survive another. 

I just read an unconfirmed report that the Spanish government is freezing bank accounts in Catalonia...big, if true, so stay tuned. 

 

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What Role Will the Police Play?

Charles' article emphasizing the way that the elite will tweak the rules to maintain their plunder seems very timely to me also.  But the elite do not enforce the plundering themselves.  They have LAW ENFORCEMENT personnel do that on their behalf.

The photos above do not even show the elite.

They send in paid "muscle," armed and armored, to beat the people who are not complying with the demands of the elite.

So the question is, What role will our police play in this process?

Whom do you protect and serve?

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Law enforcement will be on BOTH sides

You'll know we've taken another big stairstep down in the societal decay process when you see law enforcement personnel on BOTH sides of violent confrontations, as is now happening in Catalonia.  As long as law enforcement is on ONE side that is indicative of TPTB being in unison and working together.  When you see law enforcement being deployed on opposing sides you'll know that various elites are in open conflict and serious enough about it to begin deploying their forces accordingly.  That is a big risk for the elites, as it exposes them to being on the "wrong" (losing) side.

The other dynamic to look for is when police and other enforcement agents take the initiative to refuse orders they are given or take rogue action because of their personal values and ethics.  That will get into the mix described above.

"Welcome to the Hunger Games. And may the odds be ever in your favor."

 

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Interesting

The Catalunya debacle was trending viral yesterday after the vote, and it was not putting a good light on the EU project.

And now? Not too much of it at all on the MSM feeds, almost nil actually. "Correlation does not imply causation" and some such, of course.

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las vegas

My prediction: Las Vegas shooting will knock Catalonia off the headlines, at least in the US.

When I saw the photos and the videos from Catalonia (especially of the white haired old ladies in various states of distress) who were beaten for the temerity of trying to vote, I had two thoughts:

1) The gang in charge of Catalonia played this perfectly.

2) Rajoy walked right into a trap.  He's literally the worst strategist ever.

The Catalan voters went from a 46% YES position to - perhaps - a 60% YES position after the recent tactics by the central government.  If there ever was a way to push people out, it was exactly the tactics used by Rajoy.  Its almost as if he was working for the Catalan government.  They really couldn't have ordered up a better villain from Central Casting.

After all, Quebec got to vote, and so did Scotland.  When push came to shove, they all voted to stay.  And Catalonia probably would have voted to stay also, if Rajoy had only played nice.

Man.  I just marvel at the idiocy.

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Maybe

After all, Quebec got to vote, and so did Scotland.  When push came to shove, they all voted to stay.  And Catalonia probably would have voted to stay also, if Rajoy had only played nice.

Did Quebec and Scotland really vote to stay?  Uh-huh

AKGranny

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Las Vegas - very odd

To say that the LV shooting was 'odd' is an understatement.

Nothing about the shooter adds up, making this one heck of a mystery, with an extremely weird timing to knock the Catalonia headlines down several important notches.

Before I begin, let me clearly state two things. First, as I note in the title of this post, my observations are based on early reports, and early reports are often wrong. Second, do not read this post as implying any sort of conspiracy theory of any kind. I’m merely noting the facts as we currently understand them — and how they differ from recent mass shootings.

As virtually everyone has noted from the abundant video footage of the incident, it certainly sounds as if the shooter used either fully-automatic weapons or semi-automatic weapons modified (through, for example, a bump fire stock) to closely simulate automatic fire.

Moreover, the police are reporting that he had “more than 10 rifles.” He apparently rented his corner room for days and may have even set up cameras to detect when police were approaching. That’s all strange enough, but it’s even more unusual when you consider that his own family apparently didn’t know that he maintained a stockpile of guns. H

ere’s this, from the gunman’s brother, suggesting that the gunman wasn’t an avid gun guy at all: “Not an avid gun guy at all…where the hell did he get automatic weapons? He has no military background,” gunman’s brother says

So, a person who’s “not a gun guy” has either expended untold thousands of dollars to legally purchase fully-automatic weapons, somehow found them on the black market, or purchased and substantially modified multiple semi-automatic weapons — and did so with enough competence to create a sustained rate of fire.

This same person also spent substantial sums purchasing just the right hotel room to maximize casualties. I cannot think of a single other mass shooter who went to this level of expense and planning in the entire history of the United States.

And there was no real warning? His family was unaware? His brother also reported that the shooter had no meaningful political or religious affiliations. “He just hung out.” At the same time, however, there are reports that a woman told a group of concert-goers, “You’re all going to die tonight.”

I’m not ready to draw any conclusions from these reports, but it’s worth highlighting how extraordinary this attack seems to be.

Given the firepower and the packed mass of people, it’s easy to see how the casualty count was so high, even firing from an extreme range (by the standards of mass shootings.) This was the University of Texas tower attack on steroids, conducted out of nowhere, with meticulous planning and at great expense, from a person who doesn’t seem to fit any normal profile of a mass shooter.

There is much we have yet to learn, but for now, this is one of the most chilling and mysterious events I’ve ever seen.

(Source @ National Review )

This is truly very odd.

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About Catalonia

Here's what I put on my Facebook page earlier:

Here's the thing about moral and values-based positions. They do not change based on circumstances. If they do, they are revealed as fraudulent. Can you imagine the fuss on CNN right now if the police behavior in Catalonia was actually happening in Russia?

Oh the (faux) outrage!!

Conclusion: The US does care about democracy. It does not (currently) hold a morals or values based position on democracy and voting. It holds a position of political convenience on the matter....which also explains the severe lack of vote count security that exists in the US thanks to wildly insecure e-vote machines and central tabulators.

And here's how the EU bureaucracy central decided to respond to this...and this from Boris Johnson the (formerly) firebrand London mayor who has clearly been assimilated by the Borg.

Responding to the unfolding crisis, Boris Johnson, the Foreign Secretary, told the Daily Telegraph last night: "Obviously we are very anxious about any violence. We hope that things will sort themselves out, though clearly you have to be sensitive to the constitutional proprieties."

He added: "As I understand it the referendum is not legal, so there are difficulties."

(Source

Wow.  That's pathetic.  

The referendum wasn't "legal" so that justifies the raw brutality against peaceful voters?  Seriously EU?  This is where you stand now?

This is really messed up.

Time to drive stocks a little higher and gold lower.  What else is an increasingly scared elite to do besides pat themselves on the back with more market returns?

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Lets see what happens to the girl friend

If she should become unable to tell her story, my suspicions would rise significantly.

And what is with the "10 guns" thing?  A person can only fire one gun and reloading depends on having more magazines, not more guns.

Remember the 9/11 hijackers who left a satchel in an airport rental car that contained the 19 names, the flight manual for the jet, an audiotape about preparing for jihad and a will.  Planted evidence found immediately leading to a certain explanation.

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It's okay to say it's odd, Chris

I would point out that the University of texas shooter in 1966 was an odd case too.

Not that there was anything of conspiracy there. Just, sometimes, things go wrong in a wierd way.

Though his tumor triggered his "fight or flight", he practically made it impossible for himself to take down the police when they got up to him. That implies to me that he really did want to be stopped. Just, because of the tumor, he was crazy.

Sad, but odd.

Does that mean that odd things here are not of conspiracy? No. But it doesn't mean it is, either. Eventually, we may know. With all the shenanagans of our government, it probably won't be in this lifetime. And that isn't odd either.

It is what it is.

Wendy S. Delmater's picture
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moving LV shooter to new discussion

Let's move any discussion about the Las Vegas shooter to a new discussion to keep the issues separate. 

Time2help's picture
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M240B?

Cyclic rate seems to match. Anyone with crew fired weapons experience feel free to chime in.

Another anomaly, at 2:23 and 2:40: What, exactly, does the man filming via cellphone say?

Fine with moving this to an alternate thread.

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Sounds like it.

Sure sounds like it.  Of course someone would have to have pulled the tracers out of the belt.  If true, it will not be possible to hide the 7.62 bullet holes all over the place.  The caliber will come out and I'm going to guess 7.62X39.

If it is a M240B, there are profound implications.  Ours weren't issued until the late 1990's and so almost NONE are in the Class III NFA transferable inventory.  Only a Class III Dealer SOT (Special Occupational Taxpayer) could possibly have one as a dealer "sample".  I found ONE for sale as a post 86 dealer sample and it was $27,500.00! 

I would also have a hard time believing one could be found on the "black market" as they just aren't available through civilian channels.  

That being said, the sound and cadence were compellingly similar.

Rector

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error

.

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"Shooter's" girlfriend
sand_puppy wrote:

If she should become unable to tell her story, my suspicions would rise significantly.

 

The first [big] mistake she made was to return to US soil.

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Catalonia shows the danger of disarming civilians

https://fee.org/articles/catalonia-shows-the-danger-of-disarming-civilians/

Since the tragic murder of 59 peaceful concertgoers in Las Vegas Sunday, I’ve heard well-intentioned Americans from all political corners echoing heartbroken and tempting refrains:

Can’t we just ban guns?

Surely we can all get together on the rocket launchers.

Things like this would happen less often.

We have enough military.

While victims were still in surgery, some took to television and social media to criticize the “outdated” and “dangerous” Second Amendment to the Constitution. They have lived so long in a safe, stable society that they falsely believe armed citizens are a threat to life and liberty for everyone.

Those who claim to see no necessity or benefits of individual gun ownership need only look to the rolling hills of Catalonia, where a live social experiment is currently unfolding.

Unarmed Patriots

Just hours before an alleged lone gunman opened fire from the Mandalay Bay casino, the citizens of a small region surrounding Barcelona, Spain, cast a vote for their regional independence. Catalonia’s citizens have a unique language, culture, and history, and consider Spain a neighboring power, not their rightful rulers. So as America’s Continental Congress heroically did (and as Texans and Californians occasionally threaten to do) Catalonia wished to declare independence and secede.

Polling stations in Catalonia were attacked by heavily armed agents of the state with riot gear and pointed rifles. Spanish National Police fired rubber bullets and unleashed tear gas canisters on voters, broke down polling center doors, disrupted the vote, and destroyed enough ballots to throw results into serious doubt. 

Exceedingly few of those would-be patriots were armed.

In Spain, firearm ownership is not a protected individual right. Civilian firearms licenses are restricted to “cases of extreme necessity” if the government finds “genuine reason.” Background checks, medical exams, and license restrictions further restrict access. Licenses are granted individually by caliber and model, with automatic weapons strictly forbidden to civilians. Police can demand a citizen produce a firearm at any time for inspection or confiscation. Spain has enacted, it would seem, the kind of “common sense restrictions” American gun-control advocates crave.

But of course, that doesn’t mean that Spanish citizens don’t buy guns. In fact, Spanish taxpayers maintain an enormous arsenal of weapons, which are all in the hands “professional armed police forces within the administration of the state, who are the persons in charge of providing security to the population.”

Those agents of the state weren’t “providing security to the population” of Catalonia on Sunday — they were pointing guns at would-be founding patriots who had challenged the rule of their oppressors.

“If somebody tries to declare the independence of part of the territory — something that cannot be done — we will have to do everything possible to apply the law,” Spain’s justice minister said in a public address.  While many polling places were closed or barricaded, 2.3 million voters (90% in favor of independence) were permitted to vote, he claimed, “because the security forces decided that it wasn’t worth using force because of the consequences that it could have.”

The consequences of a government using force to control those it is sworn to protect must be high. When citizens are armed, the consequences for tyranny rise and its likelihood falls.

How different things might have been in Catalonia if the police and politicians knew that the citizens were armed with handguns and rifles.  My guess is the police thugs would've been much more circumspect than they were, dragging old ladies out of polling stations by their hair.

The citizens of Athens, Tennessee took up arms and revolted against the political corruption in their county in 1946.  They restored the rule of law and ejected the local power elite.  If you don't know the story, you should.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Athens_(1946)

 
Wendy S. Delmater's picture
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Distributed government

Successes and failures in the use of digital tools in Catalonia’s rebellion

The battle presently being fought in the streets and polling stations in towns and cities throughout Catalonia before, during and after October 1, in which a diverse civil society has come together in huge numbers, putting their bodies and knowledge in the service of the shared goal of defending what is considered to be real democracy, has also had a crucial battleground in the case of the Internet.

This is a very long article, but worth your time. 

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Catelonia today.

As collapse moves from the outside in, we have a chance to see how things work in other locations.  Greece, Venezuela, Cyprus, Yemen, Syria....

And now Catalonia. 

Armstrong reports that the Catalan Police are siding with the people against the national police (Madrid).

What is going on in Spain is the blueprint what what other governments will do. The Spanish people themselves outside of Catalonia are deeply divided. Many see this as offensive and others see the government as offensive. We are looking at the breakup of the USA as well and do not forget the civil war to prevent separatists in America. The real issue is that people ban together for creating society and civilization and then government abuses its power and the process of decline begins. This is throughout history and it really does not matter what culture or country. It is all the same.

Spain’s Constitutional Court, the puppet of Rajoy, on Thursday ordered the suspension of Monday’s session of the regional Catalan parliament. Rajoy is demonstrating that government will not tolerate losing power. You can always write a law and claim it is unconstitutional to separate. 

 

"With the results of October 1, Catalonia has won the right to be an independent state," Puigdemont said. "If everyone acts responsibly, the conflict can be resolved with calm."

The question then was how the Spanish central government would respond, which it did when it appears to have purposefully misinterpreted Puigdemont speech, declaring that "Catalonia has declared deferred independence" and, as El Pais reports, "Central government sources say they consider Puigdemont's speech to be a declaration of independence" with a press officer for the Rajoy cabinet telling Bloomberg that "it’s not acceptable to make an implicit declaration of independence and then explicitly leave it hanging." adding that Puigdemont“has taken his irresponsibility to the absolute extreme by ignoring the laws, citizens.”

As a result, "the Rajoy government will take measures, and is expected to apply Article 155 of the Constitution."

 

 

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I lived in Catalonia for a

I lived in Catalonia for a time.  It is by far the most prosperous area of Spain. Their efforts to leave Spain and I am assuming, divorce their share of the national debt, would leave Spain much worse off than Greece ever was. The Castillianos shouldn't be beating up the Spaniards though. Not pretty!  

A word of caution, don't ever ask a Catalonian to explain the roots of the problem unless you are prepared to spend several hours being confused. Spanish history is mind bending. As any Spaniards will tell you, Europe is a collection of hatreds.  The EU was created to address this, make it more homogenous. Unfortunately, that is a next to impossible task. 

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Catalonia as blueprint for battle for decentralization

Michael Krieger points out that Catalonia is offering us a blueprint for the battle between forces seeking to centralize versus decentralize power.  This issue may be the big theme of the next decade.

I believe what’s currently happening in Spain represents a crucial microcosm for what we’ll see sweep across the entire planet over the next ten years.

...  It doesn’t matter which side you favor, what matters is that Madrid/Catalonia is an example of the forces of centralization duking it out with forces of decentralization.

Madrid represents the nation-state as we know it, with its leaders claiming Spain is forever indivisible according to the constitution. ...

[T]his isn’t coming out of nowhere. Humanity’s current established centralized institutions and nation-states have become clownishly corrupt, merely existing to protect and enrich the powerful/connected as opposed to benefiting the population at large. As such, legitimacy has been shattered and people have begun to demand a new way.

-------------------

Other quotes from this issue

 

“No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?”
George Orwell, Animal Farm

“This work was strictly voluntary, but any animal who absented himself from it would have his rations reduced by half.”
George Orwell, Animal Farm

 

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decentralization

I agree with the concept.  A lower energy situation probably ends up - eventually - with a lot more power moved down to the local level.  "States rights", as it were.

The cartels will not be pleased - they really like the one-stop-shopping experience provided by our current Congress.

Catalonia may end up providing a learning opportunity for the central planners.  It is better to grant some independence and retain the province, vs. playing hardball and indirectly causing a revolution.  I think Madrid's actions have pushed a number of people from "oh we should probably stay" to "gosh, what a bunch of jerks!"

Armstrong had this observation:

https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/international-news/europes-current-economy/rajoy-continues-to-act-in-the-spirit-of-franco-warning-spain-cannot-be-trusted/

Behind closed doors, many are becoming very disturbed by the action of Madrid. They fear this is spilling over as a contagion within Europe for populist movements. The election in the Czech Republic with the overwhelming vote against the EU many fear will be repeated next year in Italy and much of the finger-pointing behind the closed doors our sources are calling Rajoy a “f**king idiot” to directly quote some political sources.

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Catalan leaders to be charged with Rebellion

I appreciate DaveF's observations about the unwillingness of the oligarchy to let the Catalonian milk-cow wonder free of the barn.

The oligarchy lives by skimming from the entire milk production and distribution process.  Thus, both the milk drinkers and the oligarchy have much to lose by letting the milk-cow choose its own life direction.

I also appreciate the observation that self-determination is considered an unalienable right of all human beings granted by the creator.  It is a self-evident truth.  A given.  Closely related to basic equality of all human beings.  It is now deeply embedded in the Western sense of justice.  This is a GREEN Meme and higher perspective (YELLOW, TURQUOIS).

But this is true, at least in the west, at this point in history.

But BLUE Meme thinks very differently.  BLUE believes in hierarchies and the rightness of the superior group to rule.  For example:  aristocracy over the commoners, the Brahmin over the untouchables, Our race over "those savages,"  the plantation owner over his slaves, and men over women (in some cultures).  Sometimes it is "God" who imparts this superiority, sometimes, "Natural Laws."

RED Meme also thinks differently.  RED believes in the rule of might.  The strong dominate the weak and rule by force.  The strong rightfully rule the weak.

Dominator hierarchies are much more enjoyable for the dominators than the dominatees.  Until we humans have the experiences of being in both roles and reflect on how this all works, we are not likely to grow out of this BLUE and RED Memes into GREEN, where the equality of all persons is self-evident.

So, I expect the EU to wear the mask of GREEN (we are doing this for the good of the children), but to preserve and extend the dominator hierarchy with themselves as dominators, using as much ruthlessly as is needed.

 

 

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a structural problem

Thanks SP.

The "meme" problems stem from the structure of the EU itself.  The gang in charge aren't elected, and as such, they don't actually need to be responsive to the people they allegedly lead - and so they aren't.

Instead, they are responsive to the politicians from the richest nations, who provide the money for the project to operate.  Money is the life blood of any project.  No money = no project = no role for them personally = no power, no salary, and no pensions.  So when Merkel speaks, they listen.  The rest is just window dressing.

Its all about the money.  Notice the big sticking point with BRExit.  "Pay us our divorce fee" is the #1 issue.  Not jobs for the people of Germany - its about money to fund the project.  Salaries, pensions, continuity of the bureaucracy.  10% of the EU budget is leaving, and the gang in charge (whose salaries come directly from that budget) are not pleased.

Its BLUE wrapped in GREEN.

 

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