"Collateral Murder", WikiLeaks posts US military raid which kills 12 people including 2 Reuters staff

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"Collateral Murder", WikiLeaks posts US military raid which kills 12 people including 2 Reuters staff

Under the E of environment: The war that we support through our tax dollars.

WikiLeaks has released a classified US military video depicting the indiscriminate slaying of over a dozen people in the Iraqi suburb of New Baghdad -- including two Reuters news staff.

As the Youtube version now requires a 'sign-up' to view this vid. I post the wikiLeaks site where it can be viewed.

Get ready to hit the pause button so you can read the helicopter radio transmissions.

Warning: video is very graphic.

http://www.collateralmurder.com/

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Re: “Collateral Murder”, WikiLeaks posts US military ...

I watched this. Ive seen many videos like this.

 

 

Horrible and disgusting.

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Re: “Collateral Murder”, WikiLeaks posts US military ...

That we could have anything to do with such atrocity makes me sick. This is real where people continue to die every day at the point of our guns

It has to stop

 

Jim

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Re: “Collateral Murder”, WikiLeaks posts US military ...

...and they wonder why America's finest are being shot back at and blown up with home-made roadside bombs by 14 year old kids in Iraq? Well, that 14 year old kid had an older brother!!! That older brother had an Uncle/Father/Sister/Brother that he sacrificed himself for in their memory in retaliation, blowing himself up using home made roadside bombs to kill America's finest - and on and on and on and on!!!

 $1,449 Billion to pay for the American war machine per year; some 54% of all US income taxes,  I can confirm: -

Where Your Income Tax Really Goes

http://www.warresisters.org/pages/piechart.htm

Total Outlays (Federal Funds): $2,650 billion
MILITARY: 54% and $1,449 billion
NON-MILITARY: 46% and $1,210 billion

If you watch the film below in whatever format works for the US, not only will you be horrified at the incredible carnage, but you'll see for yourselves that these people are no different from you. Your media has done a wonderful job in brainwashing the majority of your population in demonizing Iraq.

Share My Outrage!!!: -

Jon Snow's Hidden Iraq For Channel 4

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-3886376311962177051&ei=N0m6S4...

You Tube High Quality Equivalent (In the misguided hope that it will actually work in the US)

~ VF ~

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Re: “Collateral Murder”, WikiLeaks posts US military ...

Fucken hell thats just bullshit.. I feel sick

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Re: “Collateral Murder”, WikiLeaks posts US military ...

This was absolutely brutal to watch and even if you believe this war is being fought for good fundamental reasons, I can't understand how anyone could watch this and agree that the way in which we are conducting the war is just or proper.

I don't want to marginalize individuals who are in a life and death war zone, but sorry, this was nothing of the sort. Even if these guys had AK-47s and RPGs, as the troops asserted, I really would like to know how lethal an AK-47 is to a helicopter with armor and rockets. Yes, I'm sure an AK could take down a helicopter, the same way a .22 could take down an elephant. It's all in shot placement, but if you need a 1 in a million shot to take out the target then you are not a threat by my standards.

Most disturbing for me was the way in which these soldiers begged to engage, congratulated each other for massacreing unarmed civilians (what an achievement!), and then actually attempted to justify their behavior by blaming the adults for bringing children outside.

I'm sure there are circumstances I am missing in my jaded, air conditioned, IED-free life. But I personally could not do what these guys did that day. Could not and would not.

It's clear why we have so many suicides and so much PTSD. This is the sickest thing I have ever seen.

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Re: “Collateral Murder”, WikiLeaks posts US military ...

For those who have not yet read it, here is a posting of a small booklet written by an individual who was the most decorated marine at the time of its writing. This is United States Major General Smedley Butler's War Is A Racket. Absolute must read: http://www.ratical.com/ratville/CAH/warisaracket.html

 

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Re: “Collateral Murder”, WikiLeaks posts US military ...

Absolutely painful to watch.  Can you imagine what would happen if some other government would have done something like that to a bunch of Americans?  Their would be a Sh*t storm like you can not believe.  When Americans make this kind of mistake, first we deny it and then if actually caught, excuse it away as some accident.  The rules just don't apply to us because we are special.  One day that arrogance will come back to haunt us big time.

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Re: “Collateral Murder”, WikiLeaks posts US military ...

  There are many similar videos out there on the interwebs. 

Some are insurgents, others, who knows? 

 Most of the time I don't think the "insurgents" even know what hit them.

 

The worst part is they tried to cover this incident up.

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Re: “Collateral Murder”, WikiLeaks posts US military ...

well we better keep winning, cuz otherwise there's a lot of newly created terrorists that will come after us. war ad infinitum

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Re: “Collateral Murder”, WikiLeaks posts US military ...

I was horrified watching this but not the least bit surprised. This is what the U.S. military has been doing every day in the Iraq and Afganistan theatres. Every single day. But the reason they hate us isn't because we treat them this way - it's because of our freedoms. President Bush said so, and Britney Spears said "Why doesn't everybody just trust the President?" So there you have it...

The comments from the brass almost implying the helicopter crews were acting in self-defense should be used as a truth calibration index. You saw this video and you heard the language your government used to describe what good guys the U.S. forces were. So please, next time you hear words from the U.S. government about something that happend in Iraq or Afganistan, calibrate your mental image of what really happened using this video as a guideline.

I'm thinking it's past time for me to learn that 'strine accent for cover in the future. Fair dinkum, mates!

Erik

 

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Re: “Collateral Murder”, WikiLeaks posts US military ...
Mike Pilat wrote:

Most disturbing for me was the way in which these soldiers begged to engage, congratulated each other for massacreing unarmed civilians (what an achievement!), and then actually attempted to justify their behavior by blaming the adults for bringing children outside.

I'm sure there are circumstances I am missing in my jaded, air conditioned, IED-free life. But I personally could not do what these guys did that day. Could not and would not.

It's clear why we have so many suicides and so much PTSD. This is the sickest thing I have ever seen.

They begged to engage because this is a game to these 20 somethings that have been raised with the most graphic, disgusting video games.

 The aspect I found most disgusting was engaging clearly unarmed civilians who merely were carrying out a Samaritan act of helping a severely wounded civilian.

You are missing the propaganda that the troops are subjected to. I've also missed that conditioning but past warfare indicates how it works. All Iraqis are demonized as sub-human and not worth living. Skilled propaganda and the group mentality and cohesion of troops is a powerful force.

The suicide and PTSD sets in when the soldier returns to a fairly normal environment and questions his entire experience, beliefs and swallowing of the propaganda.

 

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Re: “Collateral Murder”, WikiLeaks posts US military ...

Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee

V

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Re: “Collateral Murder”, WikiLeaks posts US military ...

Erik,

work that strine accent hard, because the way I'm seeing things going, the American accent, in all of its guises, is well on its way to being treated with the same disgust as a German one after 1945. These soldiers, no more than blood hungry mercenaries, have been the object of my disgust and the thing that has damaged my sleep at night for years now. Your cultured and intelligent writings on this forum are, in many ways, utterly undermined by the sending of such envoys, such ambassadors of your country, to speak 'in volumes' on your behalf.

As a 'rule of thumb', this film evidence is a vindication to my years of study into the truth of many an American lead campaign thats history will never make into the high schools of the States; a media that wins the rights to battle from its viewers apathy by building a perimeter wall against conscience until there isn't a conscience left to describe themselves; nothing but the programming, over-wrote umpteenth times until the scored and ingrained message is so deeply cut that the ability to digest all of that fat and sugar and salt diet isn't stopped between vegetative channel-flicking soap opera's and the movement of shovelling hand to mouth, hand to mouth. Glazed-eyed opera and a drugged concentration span reduced to a state where watching television uses less energy than sleep.

This created and manipulated global depression has far more sinister gain than most can contemplate. It has perpetuity to further maintain those 90% of Americans who think World Of Sport really is a 'World Of Sport', for a game that no other on the planet is contender. That 90%, who have never seen the value and will never hold a passport, think themselves as members of a democracy of freedom; are more caged inside their own skulls in such number than any culture in human history.

The inescapable fact is, there is nothing that can be done now. It is all so very very late in the day. If Tel Aviv and New York are still standing in ten years, I'll be so very surprised indeed. With their demise, from what came before there destruction will be perpetuated, far forward of that, without once having access to the truth. A truth as plain as the nose on your face. That studied history proves that the carnage of today was started by the same alliances. That those strapped to IED's are not only justified, but innocent victims of their own destruction to boot ...

A democracy is a good thing if the populace with the vote are both intelligent and well informed. An ignorant and uninformed populace however, have no such action in maintaining and developing democracy, in such cases as that rabble of cannon fodder, those 40 million uninsured; Americans who couldn't so much as spell the word, let alone contend that theirs has been long undermined. To then send that depth-less non sophistication; that proven inability to perform the act of democracy into another country, with all of its half-truths and misdeed, and sell the fraud as genuine, beggars my belief.

My clock said 4.14am when the draw to write this overtook my need for sleep. Now the birds are calling ...

~ VF ~

 

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Re: “Collateral Murder”, WikiLeaks posts US military ...

G'day, VF.

Good on yer for that bonzer post, mate!

It made me realize a serious omission in my decision process to evalute the option I eventually chose to leave the country.

After WWII, Germany was an absolute mess and mayhem was rampant. But as you described, Germans were not met elsewhere with warm receptions. So I wonder, if you were a German in Germany in 1946 and were somehow fortunate enough as to be able to leave if yo wanted to, would you be better off staying in Germany for the safe-haven aspect of being surrounded by other Germans, or would you be better off getting out and lookng for greener pastures, and just accepting that you would be the victim of extreme prejudice and perhaps violence elsewhere?

I really take this seriously. If Marc Faber is right and the U.S. deals with its impending fiscal disaster by starting a few more wars, the anti-American sentiment that already exists worldwide will grow exponentially. Telling folks "But don't blame me, I didn't support those policies" will work about as well for me as it worked for the post-WWII Germans.

Racism sucks!

Erik

 

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Re: “Collateral Murder”, WikiLeaks posts US military ...

Here's a Dylan Rattigan piece that puts this in context with interviews from both wikileaks co-founder and military reps.

I'm surprised and delighted to see the MSM actually picking up on the news for once.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/ratigan-discusses-wikileaks-video-obser...

Erik

 

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Re: “Collateral Murder”, WikiLeaks posts US military ...

Erik,

Checkmate. The trap is set ...

I'm glad you're in Japan and can watch the US from the outside in. It is as much the horror that I watch from the UK. The UK, again, is devolving down also ...

BBC breakfast television just did its usual poll of the newspapers here, with a study of The Times newspaper, stating that the Conservative party is 4% ahead of the Labour party, yet the Sun newspaper states its 10%. Stranger still that both newspapers are owned by the same group. More strange still, if you have a mind to remember how the Labour party gained its majority vote in 1997, when The Sun news group changed its allegiance from Conservative to Labour with great fanfare, but that is a role for contention. That would be a case of getting drawn into the left/right paradigm; drawn into the world of Rupert Murdoch.

In other news that my unslept mind is drawn to: - The game of Scrabble has had the rules of the game changed so that celebrity names (from A list through D) can now be used for points, but what of the Michael Jackson death and the trial of the doctor who supposedly administered the fateful overdoes; streamed into my living room, 24 hours a day if I had a mind to leave it on and allow the talking heads to infiltrate!

With the march of the Red Army into Berlin and the slaughter of those remaining, the vacuum left behind by the castrated escapee militarized paradigm of Germany was re-inflated, all be it with a double bulge, where the east met the west and, old enemies, old borders and raging mineral rights, cast the country with the old masters of murder, rape and pillage, through to 1948 and the raising of the iron curtain.

That Hitler held his allegiance toward the UK prior to 1937, seeing Russia as the enemy, was two-fold when Russia was seen to be an allie, in part, only because of its own inner political structure being tenuous. To gain both power and control over much of Eastern Europe, Russia sent millions of its people to their deaths with the long onslaught across the frozen rutted headlands of the Ukraine, Poland, Chekoslovakia and Hungary. It was, in and of itself, a connectable cause and effect that later gave McCarthy power during the 50's communist witch hunts.

There really isn't a gap between the first and second world wars, just a perpetuation of the same raging human need for resource. There isn't really a gap between the first Gulf War of the early 1990's and the invasion of Iraq in 2003, just a shuffle in the president's and Prime Minister's and those same raging human needs for resources. That, and 4 million indirect and 1 million direct Iraqi deaths as a consequence.

Rail lines for Iranian oil by the Germans in the 30's is no different from oil pipelines through to Syria at the turn of this century, with the added onous of pipelines conjoining Uzbekistan to Georgia and the Ukraine with a little antilliary skermish in Poland over a missile defense umbrella between the US and (former?) USSR in 2008/2009.

Nigeria starves in tin huts, while the military make examples of disident armies (surprisingly shod with American and Russian fire-power), by making show of shooting them after Kangaroo Court public trials on behalf of the Shell Corporation.

From length to bredth of the globe, every cruelty performed using military in the years building up toward, during and after the first world war are as plain to see, as I noted earlier, as the nose on your face. The only difference between then and now is scale and firepower. No matter. As long as the American population remains dumb, it will continue to send trained baboons such as those in the helicoptor in the Wikileaks film. Cannon fodder ...

Checkmate to Racism ...

I wonder quite how, considering it appears that the US is losing both its war and its debt to Russia and China, as to whether it really won the fight against Communism back in the 80's?  Quite frankly, it didn't. The identifying paradigm had a name change is all.

Reagans 'Third way' ideal was drawn from Isaiah Berlin. This is our new global reality, all but a bastardised one. It is steered by a plutocracy, while the world sleep-walks on ...

~ VF ~

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Re: “Collateral Murder”, WikiLeaks posts US military ...

This behaviour is in no way new or unique to Iraq.

Why do you think 9/11 happened in the first place?

 

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Re: “Collateral Murder”, WikiLeaks posts US military ...

Tapani,

The destruction of the Reichstag?

... Wash, Rinse, Repeat ...

~ VF ~

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Re: “Collateral Murder”, WikiLeaks posts US military ...

FWIW, Gerald Celente and Bob Chapman believe we'll also go to war in the next couple years. This seems to be the historical pattern. If it's not a war overseas, it seems an internal conflict at home is likely.

The scariest thing about this video to me is that these are the guys who are going to come home and potentially be asked to patrol American streets. This is not to make a blanket statement about all members of the military, but perhaps after fighting in a war like Iraq or Afpak, they truly need some time to decompress and deal with the potential PTSD effects before being asked to patrol America.

The real  issue is the economy. If they come home and are going to be counted as "unemployed" while they sort through any personal, mental, or physical health issues they might have, that is going to be deemed politically unacceptable. The problem is that the economy is so gutted at this point, it doesn't much matter if you are "employed" or "unemployed" - half the jobs in this country are in unproductive industries or are unproductive functions. The lack of well paying, viable jobs certainly makes the military look more attractive for some, if not for patriotic reasons, then for purely economic ones. While I don't think any amount of money can compensate someone for losing a limb or going through severe mental trauma, many of these people are being paid far, far more than they could possibly make in the economy at home. That should be an indicator of just how disturbing it is to work in the war zones we have created.

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Re: “Collateral Murder”, WikiLeaks posts US military ...

How many of you have ever served in combat?

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Re: “Collateral Murder”, WikiLeaks posts US military ...
Dogs_In_A_Pile wrote:

How many of you have ever served in combat?

What difference does that make in right and wrong?  If combat so clouds an issue that is seemingly clear to an outside observer, then maybe the choice to take a country to cambat should be considered more seriously.

Are you implying that because I have not served in combat that I somehow cannot possibly be correct in my evaluation of what happens in a "combat" situation?

DIAP, let's hear your inner voice on what you see in the video...and hear in the voices of the men wearing our uniform.

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Re: “Collateral Murder”, WikiLeaks posts US military ...

DIAP has a point.  I served,  but never in combat.  I know many people who did.  Take for just one moment a different perspective.  I am not in any way shape or form justifying what happened in this video,  but there are all kinds of issues here that I hear being arm chair quarterbacked by citizens safe at home.  

We take very young people and strip them down,  Then we replace the basic building blocks with what is needed to go to war.  And some of that is not pretty stuff.  Then we send youngsters who have in many cases never even left their state, and send them to a foreign country where they do not speak the language and put them to war with an enemy that they do not understand and does not follow rules as we understand them.

As a medic my own sister has seen medics and ambulances called in to help wounded get  bombed and shot at as they tried to rescue Iraqi citizens.  Cell phones are often the trigger mechanism of choice.  I do not blame the Iraqi's for hating us.  We have no business being there in the first place.  

But, it is strange the mental gymnastics that the human mind will take to be able to live with what they are doing.  I know everyone is going to jump all over me.  Go ahead.  All I am asking is not that you pardon or condone what was done here,  but that you pause for just one moment before jumping to conclusions or casting blame.  As is often the case, we cannot fix problems if we have a poor understanding of exactly what the nature of the problem is.

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Re: “Collateral Murder”, WikiLeaks posts US military ...
Dogs_In_A_Pile wrote:

How many of you have ever served in combat?

I will tell you that I have not but I really don't see how that is relevant. That sort of demand can make an argument ridiculous very quickly.  In this case it is not like the helicopter was engaged in combat to begin with.  It is one thing to make bad decissions in the heat of battle and quite another to make them from the safety of a seat in the sky where you cannot really see the faces of your so called enemies.  Then to double down on that mistake seems close to criminal.  I am sure if it was another military and those were american civilians, this would be a criminal matter.

If you want to argue that engaging people walking down the street of a busy city carrying a camera that is mistaken for a weapon as justifiable, go right ahead.  However there is no justification for that helicopter engaging the minivan that arrived to help the wounded.  It is far too easy to imagine that these were just good samaritans trying to help wounded than to assume they were hostile and needed to be killed.  They were clearly not a threat and I find the American military response to be immoral and sickening.

The belief that we Americans are somehow special and that the rules of human decency do not apply to us must end.

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Re: “Collateral Murder”, WikiLeaks posts US military ...

Mark -

Thank you for a civil response.  My simple question was intended to generate the type of reply you had.

I am not implying that because you haven't served in combat that you can't be correct in your assessment of what HAPPENED in a combat situation.  Anyone can see that the APACHE pilots were wrong - despite the fact that the initial engagement was within LOAC (albeit borderline). 

What I can say from a position of experience is that unless you have been in combat, and felt the numbing fear and doubt about your actions, and prayed to whatever God you pray to that your actions and your decisions were correct then you can't know what service men and women go through every day when a situation like this begins to unfold - Who is an enemy?  Are my fellow service members at risk?  Dear God what am I supposed to do?  What we don't know is what these pilots are going through today because of their actions on that day.

How much gun camera footage is out there about F/A-18 Hornet pilots aborting a strike because non-combatants MIGHT be in the area?  A hell of a lot more than you will ever see covered in the media.

That said, this event needs to be brought to the forefront and an investigation needs to be reopened. 

My "inner voice" tells me that these pilots were so very wrong.  Their chain of command was so very wrong in authorizing weapons release.  My "inner voice" tells me that they should be punished. 

My "inner voice" also tells me that demonizing military service members because of the actions of a few is also so very wrong.  Especially when done so by those who in their own words do it from their air conditioned, IED free lives.

This footage made me ill - all the more so because I have been there and have been through the decision making process these pilots went through.  Some of the responses here have also made me ill - yours was not one of them.

Thanks again - I hope the thread stays civil.  If it blows up, feel free to take it off line with me.

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Re: “Collateral Murder”, WikiLeaks posts US military ...
goes211 wrote:

I will tell you that I have not but I really don't see how that is relevant......

Joel -

I was hoping to get my response to Mark written before other posts hit. 

If I am not mistaken, I think we are in agreement on this one.  I hope you understand the point I was trying to make.  Let me know if otherwise and I will try to clarify.

Thanks to you as well for a civil response....

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Re: “Collateral Murder”, WikiLeaks posts US military ...

We are watching this video from the "safety of our seat in front of our computers".   To imply that the soldiers in the helicopter were safe is ridiculous.  Chances are they were sleep deprived, eating crappy food for 6 months or a year or more, and well aware that there were probably guns pointed at them at that same moment.  Every time they went anywhere, in fact, they were targets 24/7.  That is war and the stress of it is unfathomable to me.  Also, chances are that these soldiers think about this situation every day and lose sleep about it every night. 

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Re: “Collateral Murder”, WikiLeaks posts US military ...

Dogs,

I saw your reponse after I posted and I do understand.  I just want my friends that are in the military to come home safely and quickly.  Cheers!

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Re: “Collateral Murder”, WikiLeaks posts US military ...
Mary Ellen wrote:

We are watching this video from the "safety of our seat in front of our computers".   To imply that the soldiers in the helicopter were safe is ridiculous.  Chances are they were sleep deprived, eating crappy food for 6 months or a year or more, and well aware that there were probably guns pointed at them at that same moment.  Every time they went anywhere, in fact, they were targets 24/7.  That is war and the stress of it is unfathomable to me.  Also, chances are that these soldiers think about this situation every day and lose sleep about it every night. 

I just want to say you are correct. From an aircraft maintanence persepctive, thinking that it takes one well placed round to drop a chopper is simply untrue. I haven't watched the video yet, but having worked in the USAF on choppers, fighters, and heavies alike, I can safely say that there are airframes out there that are not armored up from the belly. I do not mean this to condone what ever wrong doings that could have occured, or to stick up for all wrongful deaths, just simply the comments about a chopper attacking those on the ground. In many cases, that is the choppers job, AND if they were taking fire, it could very easily harmed the chopper and themselves.

I want to note CLEARLY though, that this is ONLY from an aircraft maintanence perspective. NOT a war is right, wrong, or justified or not persepctive...........just from the perspective of actually working on these types of airframes. To assume that they were perfectly safe is not logical.

Mike

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Re: “Collateral Murder”, WikiLeaks posts US military ...

Dogs,

We are in total agreement on this one.  It is unfortunate that many will demonize the military collectively for the actions of a few. My opinion is that the demonization should be directed at our government for the misuse of our resources and the unintended consequences of those actions.

On a deeper note, this footage saddens and disturbs me on many levels. As was mentioned by another poster, this will weigh heavy on the minds of those involved once they are removed from the situation.  I fear that so many of our young men and women will have suffered irreparable harm, physically and mentally, by the time they return home.  As well as the innocent people and families that just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Young. impressionable minds will later turn reflective.

I, personally, just see little to gain and so much to lose by the actions of our government in this area.

I am sure I am shouting into the wind, but, just bring them home.

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Re: “Collateral Murder”, WikiLeaks posts US military ...

Well I cant stick up for the video............I didnt see anyone aiming anything at them, or anyone else. Unfortunitly, that camera, though it had a long lens....i dont think looked much like an RPG.......or anything that looed like AK's................ In any case, I stand by my maintanence perspective......

 

 

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