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ZeitGeist Moving Forward

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  • Sun, Mar 27, 2011 - 01:17pm

    #201
    ao

    ao

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    try again

[quote=jneo]

 “The last I checked, no one that I know had counselling because of their water problems or the presence or absence of computer connectivity”

What are you trying to point out in that statement?  

Money is not the problem?  You have 45 million people on welfare in this country, this entire money system is broken, the money system is not even functioning to satisfy peoples basic needs or physiological needs.   

Again please enlighten me on how exactly you could fix the current system, more QE programs, Bailouts, a new what?  

[/quote]

You creating a strawman here.  I offered no proposal on how to fix the current system.  Getting back to the issue of your claim that human problems are technical problems, I’m refuting it.

If you have enlightened individuals such as Jesus, Buddha, Confucius, Lao Tzu, etc., are you telling me they had technical solutions superior to those of Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc?  Those enlightened individuals all experienced resource deprivation yet they rose above it whereas the evil individuals mentioned all had resources at their disposal greater than anyone in their society yet they sank lower. 

As I said above, once the lower levels of Maslow’s hierarchy of needs have been met, human problems are not technical problems.  If you give every human being everything they need from a material sense, there will still be problems.

The deep, core, essential human problems are not technical problems. 

  • Sun, Mar 27, 2011 - 01:49pm

    #203
    concernedcitizenx5

    concernedcitizenx5

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    To all that have posted on this subject

First a little background on myself so that you will know where I come from when I write. I grew up in a poor section of Philadelphia, PA. My life started out on the “wrong side of the tracks”. Violence, alcoholic men and poor living conditions where a constant. Fighting, stealing, drinking and poor school habits were with me all the time. I barely finished high school. At 18 I joined the service to get away from all of it. A new start. I have never looked back. Although I lived what I wrote, it was not a part of me. I hated it. But it was reality for me.

As I got older, I read. A lot. And soon found out that most of what I experienced in my youth was due to economic conditions caused by decisions made by politicians and businessmen. It is capitalism that gives men the power to inflict great economic pain on people. Capitalism, Communism, Socialism. All have flaws. Because we are human. But when the common people, which these isms are supposed to regulate/protect, cannot do anything about the corruption caused by powerful, wealthy men. You get violent, corrupted societies. Let’s face it people. Poor people do not make the rules.

Zeitgeist offers what most people would consider, a better way. It shows in the fact that millions have now viewed or bought the documentary. And yes, there will be changes made to this system if it ever gets to be used. We are and should be in a constant state of change, for the better of society. Capitalism is individualistic in nature. Nature is not individualistic. Everything in nature works for the continuation of this world. We are the only inhabitants of this world who would use, abuse, restrict, alter, and basically mismanage nature for our own individualistic wants. Instead of taking only what we need. Which as I have read on this site, is the basic message.

Anyone who closes their minds to any other possibilities may be closing themselves and others off to the possibilty of change. Personally, I do not believe in capitalism without HEAVY regulation. Anyone who’s only goal is to accumulate wealth and things for themselves may not be what is best for the world and society as a whole. Reward to me is knowing that society is doing what is best for the youth among it. Native Americans lived for future generations. Was their society perfect? No. But what did Europeans do when they came here? They used Manifest Destiny to destroy and convert the savages. And what do we have today? Pollution, corruption, useless political system. Capitalism paved the way for what we have today. It was never regulated. Those that had the most money had the power to corrupt and tilt the system in their favor. Karl Marx, to me, was at least in favor of the common people. Although I have not read everything that he has written, I do know that the wealthy of his day feared him enough to make sure that him and his family starved to death and then some financial elites from this and other countries backed the communist revolutions and basically corrupted Karl Marx’s system. And again, what Karl Marx wrote was not perfect. But the common people should be able to have a say in balancing it out. No system that exists today offers that. Common people everywhere exist for the enrichment of the wealthy.

Everyone who can physically work. Should. For the better of society. All should be equal as far as being valuable to society. All should have access to a proper education and a stable home life. Zeitgeist is the only thing that I see that offers anything close to that. I have a problem with capitalism because it places more human value on those who own/make more or who create the jobs. Job creation without those willing to do the job is meaningless. And it is true that there are some among us that even if given the proper education may not prosper to be a decision maker or job creator. This person may have only the mental capacity to be a “broom pusher”. Does that make that person any less valuable? Everyone, I think, would agree that they enjoy a clean floor when they walk into a store or place of work.

All critisism aside. Both sides make valid points. But when there are four sides to an argument, all involved should step back and view their own argument and seriously consider others points before coming to a conclusion. That usually will result in a better solution. And “usually” may be the best that we can do. And someone may be left out all together. But if it commonly agreed to by the majority and it will better the body as a whole. Then by all means we should be moving in that direction. I am of the belief that any of the ism’s are not going to take us there. As long as there are those among us who’s only purpose is to prosper for their own self. We will never have equality. The tenants of capitalism teach financial reward for innovation. Maybe the goal should be to better society. And to those who will say “it will never happen”. You have already closed your mind off to the possibility.

  • Sun, Mar 27, 2011 - 02:07pm

    #202
    J Kovacs

    J Kovacs

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      That’s because most

 

That’s because most people now view their “wants” as “needs” and expect the monetary system to function to support that end

That is purely an effect from the monetary based system that requires this ever increasing profit profit profit that drives that “Wants are suddenly  my Needs.”  The cigarette is a good example,  people’s body on a physiological basis all of a sudden NEED it so Philip Morris can have a yacht.   

The TVP/RBE does go into great detail about the underlying cause.  

As I said above, once the lower levels of Maslow’s hierarchy of needs have been met, human problems are not technical problems.  If you give every human being everything they need from a material sense, there will still be problems.

Human problems will never go away, I never said that all problems will go away 100% just arriving at the conclusion that human problems for a great majority are technical.  You are correct too, but I would say the trickle down effect from the monetary system provokes people to act a certain way to arbitrarily create a problem because of the influences from TV and so on.  Ex. Women cheating on their husbands because it’s the (((Cool))) thing to do, and take all his money.  Or the little girl watching Jersey Shore and then acting like a Whore.  It’s the environment we created and value system for the sake of profit for MTV that can drive that kind of behavior.  Is their a technical solution to that?  Not that I can think of.  That is me agreeing with you. I’m pretty sure on some level to make to self actualization, a technical process is in the equation. 

Hitler had all the resources, but he was also a drug addict.  Getting daily injections of steroids to amphetamines will destroy a persons way of thinking.  He also suffered from Parkinson’s.  As for the other nutt jobs Mao and Stalin, I never herd anything from them about using the scientific method for human concern to solve problems, and where does it say in the Communist Manifesto that people should be put in camps and killed?

Also, some people’s self actualization comes from creating something that has a technical function.  

At least some kind of movement is happening to change things, voting for status quo warmongers is getting old.  

 

  • Sun, Mar 27, 2011 - 02:59pm

    #204

    Dogs_In_A_Pile

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    I’ll pass….

[quote=jneo]

 

That’s because most people now view their “wants” as “needs” and expect the monetary system to function to support that end

That is purely an effect from the monetary based system that requires this ever increasing profit profit profit that drives that “Wants are suddenly  my Needs.”  The cigarette is a good example,  people’s body on a physiological basis all of a sudden NEED it so Philip Morris can have a yacht.   

The TVP/RBE does go into great detail about the underlying cause.  

As I said above, once the lower levels of Maslow’s hierarchy of needs have been met, human problems are not technical problems.  If you give every human being everything they need from a material sense, there will still be problems.

Human problems will never go away, I never said that all problems will go away 100% just arriving at the conclusion that human problems for a great majority are technical.  You are correct too, but I would say the trickle down effect from the monetary system provokes people to act a certain way to arbitrarily create a problem because of the influences from TV and so on.  Ex. Women cheating on their husbands because it’s the (((Cool))) thing to do, and take all his money.  Or the little girl watching Jersey Shore and then acting like a Whore.  It’s the environment we created and value system for the sake of profit for MTV that can drive that kind of behavior.  Is their a technical solution to that?  Not that I can think of.  That is me agreeing with you. I’m pretty sure on some level to make to self actualization, a technical process is in the equation. 

Hitler had all the resources, but he was also a drug addict.  Getting daily injections of steroids to amphetamines will destroy a persons way of thinking.  He also suffered from Parkinson’s.  As for the other nutt jobs Mao and Stalin, I never herd anything from them about using the scientific method for human concern to solve problems, and where does it say in the Communist Manifesto that people should be put in camps and killed?

Also, some people’s self actualization comes from creating something that has a technical function.  

At least some kind of movement is happening to change things, voting for status quo warmongers is getting old.  

 

[/quote]

Relying upon a technical solution to achieve “self” actualization is not self actualization.  It is complete abdication of the human process to a machine.

Built and programmed by another flawed human being.

No thanks.

  • Sun, Mar 27, 2011 - 03:12pm

    #205
    J Kovacs

    J Kovacs

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     ok dogs.  you mean like

 

ok dogs.  you mean like the computer in which you are using that was created from someone’s technical ability which fulfilled a person self actualization that gave you the ability to talk to people form all over the world. 

Self Actualization is the motive to realize one’s full potential.  Tesla, Gates, Jobs, The Wright Brothers and so on…all contributed a technical ability for self actualization.  

  • Sun, Mar 27, 2011 - 03:25pm

    #206

    Dogs_In_A_Pile

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    Nope, not even close….

[quote=jneo]

 

ok dogs.  you mean like the computer in which you are using that was created from someone’s technical ability which fulfilled a person self actualization that gave you the ability to talk to people form all over the world. 

Self Actualization is the motive to realize one’s full potential.  Tesla, Gates, Jobs, The Wright Brothers and so on…all contributed a technical ability for self actualization.  

[/quote]

Nope, I mean self actualization as in realization of one’s morality, creativity, lack of prejudice and universal mutual respect.  The manner in which people realize their self actualization is part of their human process, influenced by interaction with other HUMAN processes.

And that cannot be delivered by a magic machine programmed or designed by another flawed human being.

  • Sun, Mar 27, 2011 - 04:59pm

    #207

    littleone

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    Designer Science

Jneo,

Tabacco was not all of the sudden consumed by humans because of Phillip Morris…tabacco and most other plant based drugs were used medicinally by indiginous people. The finished marketable cigarette product is a designer model…for profit.

It is not just the drugs and poverty that perpetuate suffering…ignorance does also. The technologies/science fields have been feverishly trying to fix everything resulting in quite a few strange and creepy occurances and ideals.

TVP talks about the current problems, but fails to mention how the tech fields exploit human morality…

 

Major Farm Animal Cloning Project Cancelled Due to Disease and Deaths

By Sharon Seltzer

After 13 years of studying how to prevent abnormalities in cloned animals, AgResearch has ended its cloning project because too many of the animals died.

AgResearch is a New Zealand based company that has spent more than a decade trying to perfect the cloning of animals for use in scientific and medical research.

Their cloning trials tried to create: animals that produced a type of “super milk”, sheep that were resistant to eczema, pregnant sheep that wanted to eat more food, and special proteins to be used in human medications.

But on Monday the company released a report that said “only 10 percent of the cloned animals survived through the research trials” and because of the” unnecessary suffering” of the animals they had stopped their cloning projects.

Although AgResearch has ended cloning projects, the news is not all good.  The company now plans to focus its attention on a newer research method – Transgenic Technology. This procedure uses embryonic stem cells to create new life. However, the first-generation of transgenic animals appears to be having the same high mortality rates as the cloned animals.  Last year two baby goats died and four other animals had to be euthanized. …

 

Darpa Pursues Neuroscience To Enhance Analyst, Soldier Performance

Jan 28, 2008

By David Hughes

The Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (Darpa) is researching how computers reading brain waves may one day speed up the ways intelligence analysts detect targets in satellite images and also alert platoon leaders when soldiers are losing situational awareness.

This may sound like a scenario out of the science fiction movie 2001: A Space Odyssey, in which a computer named Hal overrides instructions from an astronaut to take control of a spaceship. But in the Darpa experiments, the computer is just a tool that processes brain waves, of which the human being isn’t even aware, and turns them into actionable information. …

 

Ironically-Named ‘Smart Meters’ Prove to Be a Dumb Idea

Headaches, insomnia, tinnitus, DNA breakdown. . .  These are just a few of the myriad problems mentioned when people talk about the constant bombardment of EMFs or electromagnetic frequencies, a huge by-product of the new Smart Meters being installed by public utilities around the country.

But wait! We have been told that the Smart Grid, with it’s Smart Meters would be a good thing for all of us. Now we find out that this scheme poses very real dangers to human health?

Information on the effect of installing millions of Smart Meters, all equipped with wireless transmitters that are constantly filling the environment with EMFs, is just starting to trickle in. An electrical engineer named Rob States has been looking into this problem:

“Since individuals with no history of RF disease are experiencing symptoms the first day the meter is installed, we can assume the meter’s RF emissions are not the only problem.  The RF network is activated months after initial meter installation.  Extensive measurements have demonstrated that all of the meters measured so far, including ABB, GE, and Landis Gyr, emit noise on the customer’s electric wiring in the form of high frequency voltage spikes, typically with an amplitude of 2 volts, but a frequency any ware from 4,000 Hertz, up to 60,000 Hz.  The actual frequency of the phenomena is influenced by the devices that are plugged into the customer’s power.  Some houses are much worse than others, and this observation has been confirmed by PG&E installers that have talked to us.”

Rob’s comments come from an online article posted by Stop Smart Meters.

Thanks to the work of people like Stop Smart Meters, communities are waking up to the problem. Especially in California.

Generally speaking, people in California seem to accept new government programs with open arms, especially anything with the words ‘green’ or ‘smart’ attached to it. So Smart Meters seemed to be a no-brainer as they promised to make the planet greener and who doesn’t want a smart electrical meter?

You should know that the so-called Smart Meters are the typical energy monitoring devices with a little extra bonus added.  It is a wireless transmitter (think cell phone) that is constantly sending the power company updates on your electrical use.  The meters are now bombarding the environment with EMFs, all day, every day.  That electronic carpet-bombing of your home, apartment complex, subdivision is being blamed for health problems in people who are ‘electrically hypersensitive.’  (a real term)

More at link below:

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/ironically-named-smart-meters-prove-to-be-a-dumb-idea/ 

 

Computers that read minds are being developed by Intel
New technology could allow people to dictate letters and search the internet simply by thinking, according to researchers at Intel who are behind the project.
By Richard Gray, Science Correspondent
Published: 7:50AM BST 22 Aug 2010

US Patent 6506148 – Nervous system manipulation by electromagnetic fields from monitors
Posted on February 16, 2011 by Barbara Peterson

The security impact of the neurosciences

BY JONATHAN Y. HUANG AND MARGARET E. KOSAL | 20 JUNE 2008

(This is must-read material…IMO) Excerpt:

Brain-Machine Interactions

Yet, this capability raises the potential that someday scientists may be able to negate independent thought–a defining characteristic of humans, according to the U.N. Declaration of Human Rights. …

 

 

The Gulf Blue Plague

By Michael Edward
The World Vision Portal
10-25-10

excerpt:
SAY HELLO TO SYNTHIA
 
In 2003, JCVI successfully synthesized a small virus that infects bacteria. By 2008, the JCVI team was able to synthesize a small bacterial genome. On May 6, 2010, JCVI revealed they had already created a self-replicating bacterial cell controlled by a chemically synthesized genome they named “synthetic Mycoplasma mycoides JCVI-syn1.0”. (7) This completely synthetic cell with its computer designed genome has absolutely no natural DNA. (1) The etc group from Canada named it Synthia and it contains added watermark chains to identify the genome as artificial. It also has antibiotic resistance indicators. (7) One can only speculate why this artificial bacterium has an inherent programmed capability to resist antibiotics.
 
This new life form has the ability to replicate itself and organically function in any cell into which it has been introduced. Its DNA is artificial and it’s this synthetic DNA that takes control of the cell and is credited with being the building block of life. This is the first self-replicating synthetic bacterial cell thanks to its computer generated DNA. All of the funding for this came from Synthetic Genomics Inc (1), the company BP has a sizeable equity position and alliance with. BP is definitely way beyond petroleum just as their new slogan publicizes.
 
Why watermark this artificial genome? Doing so makes it identifiable as the unique and patented (privately owned) asset it is. What happens if a human becomes infected with a life-threatening variant bacterial species of Synthia? If you use Penicillin to fight the infection, it won’t do any good. Antibiotic resistance is part of its DNA sequence, so any use of antibiotics would be a waste of time.

source: It’s not wise to fool Mother Nature

 

for more on current science, tech, and AI see the Automation thread: https://www.peakprosperity.com/forum/automation-here/47916

-littleone

  • Sun, Mar 27, 2011 - 05:54pm

    #208
    J Kovacs

    J Kovacs

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     Dogs, I will have to

 

Dogs, I will have to agree with both our statements.  I will have to say though, TVP or ZGM has never said this system will fix all problems, just update society to help fix it where it is broken, and yes other new broken pieces will form but it’s better we update the system to accommodate.


Tabacco was not all of the sudden consumed by humans because of Phillip Morris..

I never said tobacco was being consumed JUST because of Phil, just making an observation. 

  • Mon, Mar 28, 2011 - 12:11am

    #209
    J Kovacs

    J Kovacs

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    And that cannot be delivered


And that cannot be delivered by a magic machine programmed or designed by another flawed human being.

That is a flawed statement (((as are many including my own)))), but you do have the computer itself to illustrate such a comment through someone’s self actualization to make a computer that gives you this access abundance to debate. 
  • Mon, Mar 28, 2011 - 12:43am

    #210

    Dogs_In_A_Pile

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    Automated debt slavery? No thanks….

[quote=jneo]


And that cannot be delivered by a magic machine programmed or designed by another flawed human being.

That is a flawed statement (((as are many including my own)))), but you do have the computer itself to illustrate such a comment through someone’s self actualization to make a computer that gives you this access abundance to debate. 

[/quote]

jk – I think you are clutching at straws now.

I seriously doubt that whoever made this computer in Taiwan for $.17 an hour did so out of some sense of self actuialization to allow me to make comments…….

He or she did so to feed their family because they are victims of the debt machine that is our flawed system.

And you want to automate that?????????

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