ZEITGEIST and The Huffington Post

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  • Tue, Mar 23, 2010 - 06:18pm

    #21
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    Re: ZEITGEIST and The Huffington Post

 

WOW!! amazing video.  Yup, it’s the mechanism of monetary economics that leads to cyclical consumption that is tied in with planned Obsolescence to give a turn over rate, just so the consumer can throw away and waste resources that will come back and bite the consumer in the ass when depletion is in the danger zone.  All Capitalists, Socialists and Communists are the same, wasteful.  

The market place was good 50 yrs ago, but we need sustainability and abundance of items that matter and scrap the junk, basically all materialism that is irrelevant in society, it’s axiomatic to the informed.

 

  • Tue, Mar 23, 2010 - 11:25pm

    #22
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    Re: ZEITGEIST and The Huffington Post

have any of you seen the AniMatrix?

http://www.intothematrix.com/

  • Wed, Mar 24, 2010 - 12:20am

    #23
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    Re: ZEITGEIST and The Huffington Post

[quote=Vanityfox451]

ao,

I’m aware of all the arguments that you make, and they’re nothing new to me because I always expose myself to contradictory arguments. I think that serves the interests of making an informed opinion.

I do not believe at this time that the Zeitgeist Movement have all of the answer’s any more than Ray Kurtzweil; or indeed Derick Jensen.

In the political and religious state of things that are building in the United States at this time, aggressive tactics, black and white or left verses right thinking is blanking out the effectiveness of a colourful middle ground.

Interpretation of idea’s cannot be done inside of the bubble that is the United States to me. Therefore, a corruption in the intention of a good idea can make it appear a bad one.

To me, the CM forum needs a group of intuitive and open minds more than ever. It needs people that can embrace every and all of the possibilities the future has in store for us.

As Dr Martenson once stated, “I may even challenge many of your long held personal belief’s”. I consider him a visionary, and wish to help fashion a future with the breadth of knowledge we already have and also hope to achieve.

What I’m asking you to do is to share that conviction with me …

~ VF ~

[/quote]

Fair enough.

I’m not sure what you mean by the following statement though:

“Interpretation of idea’s cannot be done inside of the bubble that is the United States to me.”

 

  • Wed, Mar 24, 2010 - 12:44am

    #24
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    Re: ZEITGEIST and The Huffington Post

 

I think Vanity is making the point that the U.S. cannot continue its steps of innovation on its own and ignore end results of our current system.

The overall big picture is we need to stop reinforcing that we need to compete with each other to survive, collective collaboration is key, and linear thinking needs to be phased out just like old technologies are.  Suppression of technologies is holding us back, to say it does not happen is ignorant, and is self evident to those who feel something is not right, a reason why many are on this site.  

The ZeitGeist Movement will continue to grow and emerge to better understandings on where we need to go as a movement and society. 

Can’t wait till ZeitGeist III in october. 

  • Wed, Mar 24, 2010 - 01:44am

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    Re: ZEITGEIST and The Huffington Post

[quote=JK121]

 

I think Vanity is making the point that the U.S. cannot continue its steps of innovation on its own and ignore end results of our current system.

The overall big picture is we need to stop reinforcing that we need to compete with each other to survive, collective collaboration is key, and linear thinking needs to be phased out just like old technologies are.  Suppression of technologies is holding us back, to say it does not happen is ignorant, and is self evident to those who feel something is not right, a reason why many are on this site.  

The ZeitGeist Movement will continue to grow and emerge to better understandings on where we need to go as a movement and society. 

Can’t wait till ZeitGeist III in october. 

[/quote]

I’m afraid I’ll have to disagree again on several points.

Competition will always be part of human existence and as long as the competition is not overly aggressive or destructive, there are definite benefits to it.

Also, technology has never yet proven to be our savior in terms of resolving the fundamental moral and ethical issues that have been the source of pain and suffering from violence, injustice, and poverty since the dawn of man.  Mankind faces the same problems it always has except on a progressively grander scale.  In fact, if you look at the streadily growing technological prowess of GPS tracked phones and cars, subcutaneous RFID chips, NSA-type (i.e. Echelon) monitoring of all communications, governmental directed technological integration of all records (financial, medical, legal, civil, criminal, etc.) pertinent to each individual citizen, whole body security scanners, integrated recognition and “truth finding” systems (facial, fingerprint, DNA, IR, EEG, EMG, GSR, functional MRI, etc.), satellite surveillance, CCTV surveillance, unmanned drones, robotic fighting systems, etc., etc., technology is ominously providing “The Owners” with progressively more powerful “tools” to strip us of our liberty, privacy, and assets and bring us deeper into servitude.  

  • Wed, Mar 24, 2010 - 01:56am

    #26
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    Re: ZEITGEIST and The Huffington Post

Well put ao

In the vids of Kurzweil I was struck by the absence of certain words like wisdom , compassion and the fact that he was not very comfortable talking about spirituality.

Any technology not informed by any of these is exactly as you have described.

I recall Timothy Leary not long before he died being asked what he was working on and he replied ” Drugs to increase huiman intelligence and drugs to increase empathy.” IMHO he was on both the wrong track and the right track. The goals were noble but the method was fraught wiht problems.

What good will unlimited energy long or immortal lifetimes and surplus food do us if we are still killing each other. “Hey Ray work on  bringing peace to Palestine.”

V

  • Wed, Mar 24, 2010 - 09:57am

    #27
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    Re: ZEITGEIST and The Huffington Post

 

I will heavily disagree with you.  technology is the only thing, when used correctly is the only thing that has solved human problems.  Human problems are technical.  Competition has been a part of mankind because mankind had nothing (scarcity) in the begining driving that behavior and perpetuating competition making it seem like it’s nature as opposed to behavior and that has always changed.  

I agree Technology is being misused RFID and so on, but again technology is solely responsible for the freeing of humanity from mundane jobs.  We can create abundance and sustainability, it’s monetary economics coupled with that behavior of wanting to rule over others that prevents us from changing our value system. 

Technology only goes so far from competition till collaboration takes over and puts in all the missing pieces.  The value system associated with competition has many by products “us vs them” mentality, which is childish.    

What good will unlimited energy long or immortal lifetimes and surplus food do us if we are still killing each other. “Hey Ray work on  bringing peace to Palestine.”

If the U.S. was really concerned with peace over in that armpit of the middle east, it would concentrate on bridging the gaps between both sides and make them understand the commonalities, not from a religious view, but from a view that they all need the same resources they are both destroying.  Also both sides have leaders with serious “old ways” of thinking. More proof that old methods cannot be applied to future problems. 

People are also forced into creating technologies that knowingly would not benefit humanity.  

It will take time but we either have sustainability for humanity or we destroy ourselves.  ZM has been the only movement i’ve seen that has any promises.

  • Wed, Mar 24, 2010 - 12:10pm

    #28
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    Re: ZEITGEIST and The Huffington Post

From ZM website.

 

A common sociological issue has to do with “Human Nature” and its effect in a collective sense. For instance, most people have been taught that human beings are naturally competitive with each other, along with the assumption that social stratification or hierarchy is also a “natural human tendency”.

This is a fallacy.

If you look to, say, a pack of lions, you will see social hierarchy and violent competition for food in most cases. This comparison is what leads people to think it is a natural occurrence in human society as well (war, greed, ego, etc.). What is overlooked however, are the Environmental Conditions present in each case. The pack of Lions exist in a world of Scarcity. They do not have the ability to create traps for food, nor is food accessible in an ‘on demand’ basis. They have to hunt and fight with each other. This creates competition naturally, for in order to survive, the lions MUST be aggressive with each other. In turn, hierarchy is developed for the strongest of these lions wins the most, and in turn exert their dominance in a stratified way.

Likewise, in our current Human Society, the exact same thing is going on. Humans have been living in the same sort of scarcity since the dawn of existence. However, as time has gone on, we have become more and more “civilized” due to our ability to Create. Unlike the Lions, humans are able to create tools and set in motion processes that free the human being from a particular chore or problem, reducing Scarcity.

Given this “insight” we then see that on a fundamental level that if scarcity could be eradicated, then human behavior would undergo a dramatic change, moving away from competition, dominance and stratification.

Likewise, outmoded ideologies that do not stand up to the test of time, such as theistic religion, compound this myth that humans/society are built a certain way. For example, the Catholic ideology states that humans are “born with sin”.

This is absurd, outmoded and based on a primitive understanding of human behavior.

There is no difference between a Ghandi baby or a Hitler baby… it is the environment that shapes the person and hence the society (and vice versa).

Therefore, true Sociological change will come from removing the conditions that cause the aberrant behavior patterns which pollute our societies. Prison, Police and Laws are mere patchwork and, in fact, tend to make things worse over time.

Ultimately, it is going to take a redesign of our culture to change human behavior for the better.

  • Wed, Mar 24, 2010 - 02:05pm

    #29
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    Re: ZEITGEIST and The Huffington Post

[quote=JK121]

 

Likewise, outmoded ideologies that do not stand up to the test of time, such as theistic religion, compound this myth that humans/society are built a certain way. For example, the Catholic ideology states that humans are “born with sin”.

This is absurd, outmoded and based on a primitive understanding of human behavior.

There is no difference between a Ghandi baby or a Hitler baby… it is the environment that shapes the person and hence the society (and vice versa).

Therefore, true Sociological change will come from removing the conditions that cause the aberrant behavior patterns which pollute our societies. Prison, Police and Laws are mere patchwork and, in fact, tend to make things worse over time.

Ultimately, it is going to take a redesign of our culture to change human behavior for the better.

[/quote]

Hi there,

It seems to me that the ZM has a religious belief in the technology the ‘saviour’. This seems as daft to me waiting for the second coming. The video above, ‘Zeitgeist activist’, addresses the problems of modern society and banking, our lack of control in politics, but does not open up the debate, it shuts it down saying that ZM is the only solution or alternative and if you don’t agree with ZM, then you must think the current madnes is ok. It actual says in the movie (not a direct quote you understand), Democracy doesn’t matter because we don’t have democracy now in the US, so therefore screw democracy, instead of giving up all your power to currupt politicians, give it up to machines.

The reason I posted up a link to the AniMatrix above: intothematrix.com is that this story is in there. There doesn’t seem to be any realistic mechanism in the ZM for really devolving power enough BEFORE we switch to a computerworld. This is essential because the powers that be will be pulling all the strings that they can.

I am wary of any ‘movement’ that doesn’t overtly act to help people empower themselves. ZM serves up more opportunity for people to give up their responsibility. We won’t even have to decide what to eat because we’ll just google it and the nanobots in our blood stream will chat to the mainframe and deliver the requisite nutrients. Efficient yes, but life? no. The main aim of human existence in my opinion is not efficiency, it is wholesome experience. And that includes work, I enjoy working, growing veg etc, I don’t want a machine to do that for me, how can a machine put LOVE into my food?

D

  • Wed, Mar 24, 2010 - 03:51pm

    #30
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    Re: ZEITGEIST and The Huffington Post

Crash,

will you trust me for a moment with a thought because, after all, we have talked in the past about a few things, though it was a little while ago …

I feel I need to add something important to this thread. It has been created by JK21, who is bright, young and enthusiastic. He’s entered his thought’s into the forum where a great many of the politics that rage within it are built upon a platform of politics that is out there, in the real world, that are, in a great many circumstance’s, built upon a bias, a religious standpoint and black and white thinking.

To quote something relevant from a book I remember reading called Brick Lane, by Monica Ali: –

“I used to think everything was possible, but now I just want some things to be a certainty… ”

Stop and think about that for a moment, remembering that the world outside of here isn’t really looking in upon this discussion as a whole, just a few people; a handful, who will hopefully go from here with a few good ideas …

What I’m trying to explain is that, there are many interpretation’s that people make of an idea that can damage the effectiveness of it. The last thing I want to see is the value of that idea being given words such as Religion, Cult or Socialism to it, when I fear there isn’t yet an old world term to truthfully describe what it is trying to be …

So, my question for you is: –

what “positive” rather than “negative” aspect’s could you describe of the Zeitgeist Movement?

Affectionately,

~ VF ~

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