Hard Asset Alliance Invest In Gold

Wisconson – sign of more to come?

Login or register to post comments Last Post 54047 reads   312 posts
Viewing 10 posts - 21 through 30 (of 312 total)
  • Fri, Feb 18, 2011 - 08:20pm

    #21
    sevenmmm

    sevenmmm

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jan 20 2011

    Posts: 42

    count placeholder

    Re: Wisconson – sign of more to come?

[quote=Rihter]

[quote=earthwise]

 

[quote=inga]

People are sick of bloated corporate profits.

[/quote]

No, people are sick of bloated government.

[/quote]

 

How do either one of you know what “people” are sick and tired of? I’m people, and I’m sick and tired of both of those things.

 

[/quote]

 

Hear hear!

  • Fri, Feb 18, 2011 - 08:25pm

    #22
    Carl Veritas

    Carl Veritas

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Oct 23 2008

    Posts: 66

    count placeholder

    Re: Wisconson – sign of more to come?

Nacci,

Union membership has been declining for the past 70 years, with the biggest drop last year   http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/22/business/22union.html   and that period covers both democrat and republican administrations.     Is membership voluntary? 

  Why those rich   $%^&**($!!

 

  • Fri, Feb 18, 2011 - 08:30pm

    #23
    sevenmmm

    sevenmmm

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jan 20 2011

    Posts: 42

    count placeholder

    Re: Wisconson – sign of more to come?

I understand the argument there are teacher’s salaries that can hardly be considered high. This is only the case when one compares the salary with past private sector averages. Things have changed, including tax revenue that pays the way.

That typed, if one takes the whole package paid to government workers, including accumulated pension benefits paid, and compare this amount with “world averages”, these people are stinking filthy rich. In an environment of competition with 4-dollar-a-day-workers, the petite bourgeoisie can no longer afford to pay both the proletariat AND the overseer class (government workers).

However there is hope, legalize the lumpens and fix a 50% tax on THEM.

  • Fri, Feb 18, 2011 - 08:43pm

    #24

    rhare

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Mar 29 2009

    Posts: 399

    count placeholder

    Re: Wisconson – sign of more to come?

[quote=sjdavis]If you mean “the market” as in free-as-can-be-no-barriers for corporations, then wages will be driven down due to competition from low wage countries.  If we keep disrespecting the US work force (or whatever part of the work force that is convenient to belittle this week), then we’ll soon have a low wage work force at home to rival the developing world.  Maybe that’s how we finally fix the export part of the equation… cheap enough labor at home so there’s little need for non-US work.[/quote]

Going to be difficult for doctors, nurses, teachers to do their job from a foreign country.  Any non-manufacturing job certainly doesn’t fall into the outsourcing scenario.  As energy costs for transportation rises, local goods certainly become a lot more attractive as well.  Besides, we have all this unions, government protection and look where we are today: Broke!  While all these interferences into the market have done is delayed the consequences while make them much worse.  It’s just another form of kicking the can down the road.

[quote=sjdavis]This is an unsubstantiated or emotionally driven conclusion.  When you say “not enough rich to tax” you certainly have some numbers in mind.  Maybe they weren’t available, but data would be helpful.  A ratio of national earnings by income demographic would suffice.  Top of mind, make the cut-offs < $50k, $50k – $120k, $120k – $250k, $250k – $1m, > $1m.  That would be five income groups and the “rich” group would be easy enough to identify, and even adjust for cost of living.  But without something like that, your statement is as much political rhetoric as that which you are trying to refute.[/quote]

No, I’ve actually done the calculations you are looking for, and posted them before (I yearn for better search or a way to look at just one users posts), but here is one on SS issue that kind of goes there, I’ll keep looking:

https://www.peakprosperity.com/comment/96957#comment-96957

But we can do it as even easier way:

[quote=Wikipedia]

In 2004, the wealthiest 25% of US households owned 87% ($43.6 trillion) of the country’s wealth

[/quote]

[quote=Chris Martenson, Crash Course, Chapter 13]But that’s not even a fifth of it. Once we add in Social Security and Medicare, the shortfall suddenly balloons to $53 trillion by the Treasury Department’s own calculations.[/quote]

So we have 43.6T representing 87% of all wealth in the US owned by those evil rich people, but we have $53T in Net Present Value liabilities all ready (and I question that that number is not really low), then we clearly you can not tax the rich to solve the problem.  Even complete confiscation of all wealth of those EVIL EVIL rich people won’t solve the problem.

[quote=sjdavis]the protests are about THE RIGHT to collective bargain,[/quote]

No, it’s whether governments are forced to agree to collective bargaining.  As far as I’m concerned any private business that wants to enter into collective bargaining agreements is free to do so (I think it’s stupid, but their choice).  However, governments should not because it is then a taxpayer subsidy for the worst workers.   After all collective bargaining is essentially saying, the best workers will give up some of their potential gain to subsidize those that would not do as well in a competitive market. 

  • Fri, Feb 18, 2011 - 09:20pm

    #25

    Nacci

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Apr 23 2009

    Posts: 15

    count placeholder

    Re: Wisconson – sign of more to come?

[quote=Carl Veritas] Nacci, Union membership has been declining for the past 70 years, with the biggest drop last year and that period covers both democrat and republican administrations.  Is membership voluntary? [/quote]

Carl, there is no doubt that union membership is down over the last 70 years under administrations that were controlled by both parties.  The largest drop did occurred last year due to the massive layoffs suffered in both the public and private sector.  If you do not have a job you can not be in a Union.  As far a union membership being voluntary; when you take a job whose workers are already unionized, you join the Union, others struggle long and hard to form a Union to varying degrees of failure and success.  Other that this, what is your point?  

 [quote=Carl Veritas] Why those rich   $%^&**($!![/quote]

I also need clarification on this comment.

 

  • Fri, Feb 18, 2011 - 10:27pm

    #26
    earthwise

    earthwise

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Aug 10 2009

    Posts: 277

    count placeholder

    Re: Wisconson – sign of more to come?

[quote=xraymike79]

[quote=earthwise]

 

[quote=inga]

People are sick of bloated corporate profits.

[/quote]

No, people are sick of bloated government.

[/quote]

Are we not talking about one and the same here, as has been pointed out ad infinitum. The government has become the handmaiden of corporations via the neoliberal agenda. Mass revolts by labor are the trend for the future, no question about it. We are seeing it in the Middle East and with time it will be all over the globe. 

[/quote]

No, you’ve got it backwards. The government has become the enabler of bloated corporate profits. It does so by subsidies, cronyism, corruption, heavy regulation and the tax code. By interfering with free market competiton, some corporations prosper and others don’t. In a free market, more companies and corporations provide competition, with profits providing the positive feedback signal, instead of political favoritism. Government distorts this process. Return to the limited government envisioned by the Founders and defined by the Constitution, and the bloated corporate profits will shrivel to an equitable level. And the income disparity also.

  • Fri, Feb 18, 2011 - 10:31pm

    #27
    Carl Veritas

    Carl Veritas

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Oct 23 2008

    Posts: 66

    count placeholder

    Re: Wisconson – sign of more to come?

Nacci,

The average workweek was 61 hours in 1870, compared to 34 hours today.   Child labor has all but disappeared and the American workplace has indeed become safer.   Not to forget  investments in technology to improve productivity.    

All of the above was caused by capitalistic competition,  not unions.  

https://mises.org/daily/1590/Markets-Not-Unions-Gave-us-Leisure

  • Fri, Feb 18, 2011 - 10:32pm

    #28
    earthwise

    earthwise

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Aug 10 2009

    Posts: 277

    count placeholder

    Re: Wisconson – sign of more to come?

[quote=Rihter]

[quote=earthwise]

 

[quote=inga]

People are sick of bloated corporate profits.

[/quote]

No, people are sick of bloated government.

[/quote]

 

How do either one of you know what “people” are sick and tired of? I’m people, and I’m sick and tired of both of those things.

 

[/quote]

Public opinion polls, although easily manipulated, do provide a coarse indication and every single one that I’ve seen where they have been matched in the same poll, cites government far behind corporations in public approval ratings .

  • Fri, Feb 18, 2011 - 10:33pm

    #29

    SagerXX

    Status Gold Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 11 2009

    Posts: 444

    count placeholder

    Re: Wisconson – sign of more to come?

[quote=sevenmmm]

[quote=Rihter]

[quote=earthwise]

[quote=inga]

People are sick of bloated corporate profits.

[/quote]

No, people are sick of bloated government.

[/quote]

How do either one of you know what “people” are sick and tired of? I’m people, and I’m sick and tired of both of those things.

[/quote]

Hear hear!

[/quote]

Second that.  

But fear not.  There will soon be a lot less bloat everywhere

  • Fri, Feb 18, 2011 - 11:07pm

    #30
    xraymike79

    xraymike79

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Aug 25 2008

    Posts: 804

    count placeholder

    Re: Wisconson – sign of more to come?

[quote=earthwise]

[quote=xraymike79]

[quote=earthwise]

 

[quote=inga]

People are sick of bloated corporate profits.

[/quote]

No, people are sick of bloated government.

[/quote]

Are we not talking about one and the same here, as has been pointed out ad infinitum. The government has become the handmaiden of corporations via the neoliberal agenda. Mass revolts by labor are the trend for the future, no question about it. We are seeing it in the Middle East and with time it will be all over the globe. 

[/quote]

No, you’ve got it backwards. The government has become the enabler of bloated corporate profits. It does so by subsidies, cronyism, corruption, heavy regulation and the tax code. By interfering with free market competiton, some corporations prosper and others don’t. In a free market, more companies and corporations provide competition, with profits providing the positive feedback signal, instead of political favoritism. Government distorts this process. Return to the limited government envisioned by the Founders and defined by the Constitution, and the bloated corporate profits will shrivel to an equitable level. And the income disparity also.

[/quote]

Nope. I don’t have it backwards. You just repeated what I said: “government has become the handmaiden for corporations.” What that means is that a regulatory-captured government promotes monopolies and distorts “free market.” Whether there ever could be a ‘free market’ is debatable because the predatory capitalism we have practiced for the past 4 decades has been to promote and carry out the breakdown of regulation in the false assumption that the ‘market’ could take care of all problems. This idea of an unregulated ‘free market’ is something you espouse in the latter part of your comment. This is a false assumption that Greenspan, the bankers, and all neoliberal thinkers push.

Viewing 10 posts - 21 through 30 (of 312 total)

Login or Register to post comments