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Wisconson – sign of more to come?

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Viewing 10 posts - 241 through 250 (of 312 total)
  • Mon, Mar 07, 2011 - 05:35am

    #241
    SteveW

    SteveW

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    There are no unbiased sources

[quote=goes211]

As opposed to the unbiased pro-labor sources on this thread.  Can you point to one that you think is unbiased?  Note, that if the source brings up the Koch’s brothers bugaboo, it is probably not unbiased.[/quote]

I never said that and the fact that one source is baised does not necessarily mean that others are unbiased.

 It seems there are plenty of axes to grind in this thread. I simply said that the Time report was biased and pointed out the bias. After all it was written by a Republican political consultant.

The owners control the corporations, the politicians, the government, the courts, now they have the Supreme Court in their back pocket.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acLW1vFO-2Q

[quote=goes211]What I find particularly amusing about Wisconsin is the way the Democratic Senators have fled the state.[/quote]

Yes, it appears they have drawn a line in the sand to use a cliche.

[quote=goes211]Personally I wish more of government could work the way it  is right now in Wisconsin.  A system that would allow the minority stop most changes very well might have kept us out of many of our current troubles.  It gives me hope for the day that believers in liberty have enough power to shut the leviathan down.[/quote]

I share that hope but realistically I think the fascist state has already been established and the Madison revolt will ultimately be crushed one way or another.

  • Mon, Mar 07, 2011 - 06:53am

    #242
    soulsurfersteph

    soulsurfersteph

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    call me cynical but…

I don’t see the Democrats in WI as being noble by running away but rather self-serving. They rely on forced union dues for campaign money. They aren’t “revolting” – they are obstructing the government and blocking votes by elected representatives. If the Republicans did this when the health care bill was being passed, there would have been holy hell raised.

Also…when I hear that the UAW actually goes after small business owners in Michigan trying to force them to pay dues even though those business owners – sole proprietors – have never set foot into an auto factory, I really don’t think that “fascism” is solely the realm of the corporations buying out politicians. Unions buy out politicians too. This is the issue. In my view, any organization, given too much power, can act in a fascist manner.

I’m not saying corporations don’t take advantage or that some heads of corporations aren’t greedy bastards. But consider this: some greedy bastards may not have been able to become CEOs. Instead these guys find their way into other positions. I.e., they did not have the Harvard connections to become a CEO, so they went and headed up a union instead.

I think unions have done a lot to help workers, but some unions have gotten a bit out of control and become corrupt, fascist organizations in their own right. No-one should be forced to join a union if they don’t want to – and particularly, no union should have any business extorting dues from someone who runs their own business and therefore does not have any need for union protection. These extorted dues are then given to the Democratic party who of course will try to pass laws forcing more businesses to pay union dues so the Democratic party gets more money.

I am a sole proprietor and I would be furious if a union tried to extort dues from me!

So corruption exists on both sides of the aisle.

I am all for business treating their workers well but this unholy alliance between unions and the Democratic party is *not* good for democracy. Making this Wisconsin thing out to be this noble strike against “fascism” ignores the corruption going on on both sides.

  • Mon, Mar 07, 2011 - 07:19am

    #243
    soulsurfersteph

    soulsurfersteph

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    PS

PS – I would not want to be forced to join a union that gave a portion of my dues to *either* major political party. I don’t like either major political party, and I would love to see the two-headed beast starved to death!

FWIW, the only party I have given to in the past is the Democrats. I donated to Hillary’s campaign and bought a Hillary shirt. Never donated to a Republican. Since Hillary, I have woken up to both major parties being horribly corrupt and awful and would like to see both of them go down. So don’t take my previous comment as putting all the blame on the Democrats! 

  • Mon, Mar 07, 2011 - 12:01pm

    #244

    goes211

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    Unions broke the first rule….

SteveW,

Did you even read the article?  The Republican author says “the governor is not really owning up to his ambition to smash the political power of public employees’ unions to smithereens.”  Seems far more balanced than most of the info posted here.  And look, we have a whole new thread to discuss the latest unbiased, propaganda free, facts from Michael Moore.  Give me a break.

It looks to me like the biggest problem with the unions is that they broke the first rule of the American ( crony capitalist ) system.  They only gave to one party.  Don’t they know they have to pay protection money to both crime families or else they are going to take some pain when their patron’s fall out of power.  The corporations certainly know that.  My guess is that the unions will soon enough.

  • Mon, Mar 07, 2011 - 04:18pm

    #245
    earthwise

    earthwise

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    Unions broke the first rule….

[quote=goes211]

SteveW,

It looks to me like the biggest problem with the unions is that they broke the first rule of the American ( crony capitalist ) system.  They only gave to one party.  Don’t they know they have to pay protection money to both crime families or else they are going to take some pain when their patron’s fall out of power.  The corporations certainly know that.  My guess is that the unions will soon enough.

[/quote]

LOL. Brilliant observation!

  • Mon, Mar 07, 2011 - 05:07pm

    #246
    SteveW

    SteveW

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    Time and time again

[quote=goes211]

SteveW,

Did you even read the article?[/quote]

Yes, it focuses on how unions operate and how they can become corrupted.

[quote=goes211]

It looks to me like the biggest problem with the unions is that they broke the first rule of the American ( crony capitalist ) system.  They only gave to one party.  Don’t they know they have to pay protection money to both crime families or else they are going to take some pain when their patron’s fall out of power.  The corporations certainly know that.  My guess is that the unions will soon enough.[/quote]

Interesting observation, but don’t the corporations run both parties while the unions continue to falsely believe that the Democrats are the party of the working folks?

  • Mon, Mar 07, 2011 - 05:55pm

    #247
    salindsay54

    salindsay54

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    Blaming big Government!

 You have to step back to see the big picture to really understand what the problem is with government and it is not because of it’s size but the lack of revenue going into the the treasury verses what is coming out. If people want all the the services without raising taxes when inflation is eating into government funds is not going to cut it.If wages for those that pay taxes have not gone up with inflation then that means more shortages of funds going into the puplic purse.Giving tax breaks to the top ten percent is causing less funds from going into the public purse as well.With medicaid and medicare forking out huge sums for outrageous inflated cost is eating the public funds as well.How about subcidized projects that usally do nothing but make those receiving them rich and drain the government again.Most of these so called subcidies are call corporate welfare and what is sad is if they don’t get them they threaten to off shore there manufacturing and do it regaurdless.

 It seems to me I could go on about who is sucking the treasury dry and I never even mentioned the Military Industrial Complex and the best the Republicans can do is go after the only ones the really put into it and then are told they don’t deserve it even after putting more into it without a substancial increase in there wages over the last thirty five years.Then you look at those that are taking from it more now then ever and how wealthy there all are an how less they put back in the treasury makes me want to laugh and cry at the same time.

  • Sat, Mar 12, 2011 - 01:19pm

    #248

    goes211

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    Not so balanced take on public sector unions…

  • Mon, Mar 14, 2011 - 01:40am

    #249

    goes211

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    Michigan Bill sounds kind of scary!

Although I have don’t have a big problem with what happened in Wisconsin, this sounds much more scary to me.

Michigan bill would impose “financial martial law”

Posted by Stephanie Condon

Michigan lawmakers are on the verge of approving a bill that would enable the governor to appoint “emergency managers” — officials with unilateral power to make sweeping changes to cities facing financial troubles.

Under the legislation, the Michigan Messenger reports, the governor could declare a “financial emergency” in towns or school districts. He could then appoint a manager to fire local elected officials, break contracts, seize and sell assets, eliminate services – and even eliminate whole cities or school districts without any public input.

“It takes every decision in a city or school district and puts it in the hands of the manager, from when the streets get plowed to who plows them and how much they are paid,” said Mark Gaffney, president of the Michigan State AFL-CIO. “This is a takeover by the right wing and it’s an assault on democracy like I’ve never seen.”

U.S. Rep. John Conyers, a Democrat who represents Detroit, said in a statement that in a given city, the governor’s new “financial czar” could “force a municipality into bankruptcy, a power that will surely be used to extract further concessions from hardworking public sector workers.”

He said the legislation raises “serious constitutional concerns.” On top of that, he said, allowing an “emergency manager” to dissolve locally elected bodies “implicitly targets minority communities that are disproportionately impacted by the economic downturn, without providing meaningful support for improved economic opportunity.”

As the “emergency manager” bill nears final passage, state lawmakers are also considering Snyder’s proposed budget, which would cut spending on schools, universities, prisons and communities, according to the Detroit Free Press.

Snyder has also proposed eliminating $1.7 billion in tax breaks for individuals while cutting $1.8 billion in taxes for businesses to spur job growth. Much of the $1.7 billion in new tax revenue would be “coming from retirees, senior citizens and the working poor,” the Free Press wrote in an editorial.

This is the first I have heard of this but if this is not partisan BS, I find this very troubling.

  • Mon, Mar 14, 2011 - 02:09am

    #250

    Poet

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    Where are the small-“c” conservatives on this?

Basically, the governor gets to cut funding for local governments and school districts, putting them further in dire financial straits.

Then based on the financial emergency he has created, he can then declare these towns, cities, and school districts to be in financial emergeny and can appoint a person or corporation to take over, fire elected officials, and sell off assets to whomever, for whatever price desired by that person or corporation. (This smacks of all those Bush, Jr.-era no-bid contracts and corporate giveaways of taxpayer money , but at a state and local level.)

There is no capable opposition because the Republicans swept the state legislature and governor’s seat. Odd, because this is something small-“c” conservatives should be up in arms about.

Poet

[quote=goes211]

Although I have don’t have a big problem with what happened in Wisconsin, this sounds much more scary to me.

Michigan bill would impose “financial martial law”

Posted by Stephanie Condon

Michigan lawmakers are on the verge of approving a bill that would enable the governor to appoint “emergency managers” — officials with unilateral power to make sweeping changes to cities facing financial troubles.

Under the legislation, the Michigan Messenger reports, the governor could declare a “financial emergency” in towns or school districts. He could then appoint a manager to fire local elected officials, break contracts, seize and sell assets, eliminate services – and even eliminate whole cities or school districts without any public input.

“It takes every decision in a city or school district and puts it in the hands of the manager, from when the streets get plowed to who plows them and how much they are paid,” said Mark Gaffney, president of the Michigan State AFL-CIO. “This is a takeover by the right wing and it’s an assault on democracy like I’ve never seen.”

U.S. Rep. John Conyers, a Democrat who represents Detroit, said in a statement that in a given city, the governor’s new “financial czar” could “force a municipality into bankruptcy, a power that will surely be used to extract further concessions from hardworking public sector workers.”

He said the legislation raises “serious constitutional concerns.” On top of that, he said, allowing an “emergency manager” to dissolve locally elected bodies “implicitly targets minority communities that are disproportionately impacted by the economic downturn, without providing meaningful support for improved economic opportunity.”

As the “emergency manager” bill nears final passage, state lawmakers are also considering Snyder’s proposed budget, which would cut spending on schools, universities, prisons and communities, according to the Detroit Free Press.

Snyder has also proposed eliminating $1.7 billion in tax breaks for individuals while cutting $1.8 billion in taxes for businesses to spur job growth. Much of the $1.7 billion in new tax revenue would be “coming from retirees, senior citizens and the working poor,” the Free Press wrote in an editorial.

This is the first I have heard of this but if this is not partisan BS, I find this very troubling.

[/quote]

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