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Wisconson – sign of more to come?

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  • Fri, Feb 18, 2011 - 06:16pm

    #11
    joemanc

    joemanc

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    Re: Wisconson – sign of more to come?

[quote=inga]

The middle class has to stop harping on each other, and go after the rich as in more than $250,000 per year.

[/quote]

Most of the income tax revenue in my state comes from the wealthy. The poor and a good chunk of the lower middle class don’t even pay income taxes.

  • Fri, Feb 18, 2011 - 06:17pm

    #12
    ao

    ao

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    Re: Wisconson – sign of more to come?

[quote=sevenmmm]

 

I don’t consider those teachers part of the working class.

Their wages are way more than average, the vacations are unbelievable, and benefits on par, or better than, billionaires.

Great topic by the way.

[/quote]

sevenmmm,

I don’t know about your area but in our area, I can think of a highly intelligent science and math teacher who is an engineering school graduate who gets paid less than 40K a year.  That’s not a very good income for someone of that education and that calibre.  They do have good benefits, for sure.  Vacations are nice but don’t forget, they spend many weekends and evenings preparing lesson plans, grading tests and papers, etc.  In fact, I know many teachers in our area who use their own personal funds to buy school supplies for their students.  Most of the teachers that my children have had, have been very dedicated, hard working individuals who, in my mind, earn and are worth the money they are paid.

  • Fri, Feb 18, 2011 - 06:27pm

    #13

    Nacci

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    Re: Wisconson – sign of more to come?

Union or anti-union it must be acknowledged that all of the workers rights that we, public sector or private, enjoy today have been hard fought and won by organized labor; the abolition of child labor, the eight hour work day, the forty hour work week, safety standards, sick time, vacation time, collective bargaining and on.  

The President has made it clear that his goal is to double U.S. exports in five years.  This will be accomplished several ways, two of which are to depreciate the Federal Reserve Note and recreate a work force that will produce more for less.  The first step in increasing U.S. worker productivity is to destroy the unions, collective bargaining and overhanging pension obligations.  

What is equal concern to both the Public and private sector is this; if the unions are broken who will stand to stop the repeal of the rights stated above?  

  • Fri, Feb 18, 2011 - 06:40pm

    #14

    Romans12.2

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    Re: Wisconson – sign of more to come?

Hello Inga, we make over 250k, drive a 12 year old car, save for vacations and struggle to make payroll taxes for our employees.  I think it’s funny that you consider us rich and that we could possibly afford any more money to help pay down this mess.  No one forces me to work 10 hour days six days a week, I do it so that I can keep the doors of my business open, so that we don’t have to fire our employees whom I love like family and so I can afford to pay our kids private school tuition so they don’t have to sit BORED out of their mind in a public school that offers them nothing.  No one in this country is forced to work.  It’s time for everyone to contribute, or tax payers like us will disappear forever.

  • Fri, Feb 18, 2011 - 06:43pm

    #15

    xraymike79

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    Re: Wisconson – sign of more to come?

[quote=earthwise]

 

[quote=inga]

People are sick of bloated corporate profits.

[/quote]

No, people are sick of bloated government.

[/quote]

Are we not talking about one and the same here, as has been pointed out ad infinitum. The government has become the handmaiden of corporations via the neoliberal agenda. Mass revolts by labor are the trend for the future, no question about it. We are seeing it in the Middle East and with time it will be all over the globe. 

  • Fri, Feb 18, 2011 - 06:45pm

    #16

    Dogs_In_A_Pile

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    Re: Wisconson – sign of more to come?

[quote=inga]

I suspect this will grow to be a nationwide movement.  People are sick of bloated corporate profits. Russ Feingold has started a new PAC, Progressives United.

The middle class has to stop harping on each other, and go after the rich as in more than $250,000 per year.

[/quote]

inga –

Haven’t read many of your other posts so I’m not sure if this one is just a 5 CEP outlier, but “go after the rich as in more than $250,000 per year” strikes me as symptomatic of the entitlement mentality so pervasive in this country – a mentality which exacerbates the problems we are facing.

  • Fri, Feb 18, 2011 - 06:58pm

    #17

    xraymike79

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    Re: Wisconson – sign of more to come?

[quote=Dogs_In_A_Pile]

[quote=inga]

I suspect this will grow to be a nationwide movement.  People are sick of bloated corporate profits. Russ Feingold has started a new PAC, Progressives United.

The middle class has to stop harping on each other, and go after the rich as in more than $250,000 per year.

[/quote]

inga –

Haven’t read many of your other posts so I’m not sure if this one is just a 5 CEP outlier, but “go after the rich as in more than $250,000 per year” strikes me as symptomatic of the entitlement mentality so pervasive in this country – a mentality which exacerbates the problems we are facing.

[/quote]

No. People are sick and tired of all the wealth funneling up to the top 0.1% of the population. Pretty simple. If you study history, you’d know this started with the dismantling of workers rights in the Reagan era from the 1980’s onward, the push for privatization of all aspects of services once considered to be for the public good, and the financialization of the entire economy. 

  • Fri, Feb 18, 2011 - 07:56pm

    #18
    sjdavis

    sjdavis

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    Re: Wisconson – sign of more to come?

[quote=rhare]

Salaries should be set by the market.  If they go up then you are correct, if they go down because the employees are willing to accept less money for a job, then the salaries are too high.  Same as it is for every other good, price is determine by need and availability (supply and demand).

[/quote]

It would be helpful if you define “the market” for wages.  Is it a global market?  Do you expand or rework trade agreements?  Obviously that greatly influences where jobs are created.  If you mean “the market” as in free-as-can-be-no-barriers for corporations, then wages will be driven down due to competition from low wage countries.  If we keep disrespecting the US work force (or whatever part of the work force that is convenient to belittle this week), then we’ll soon have a low wage work force at home to rival the developing world.  Maybe that’s how we finally fix the export part of the equation… cheap enough labor at home so there’s little need for non-US work.

[quote=rhare]

[quote=inga]The middle class has to stop harping on each other, and go after the rich as in more than $250,000 per year.[/quote]

More political rhetoric.  News Flash – not enough rich to tax.  If you took all the money from all those you consider rich, you would kick the can down the road a couple of years (maybe), then what?  It’s not sustainable.  So time to wake up, this is part of the reduction in the standard of living that is so often a topic of conversation on this site.

[/quote]

This is an unsubstantiated or emotionally driven conclusion.  When you say “not enough rich to tax” you certainly have some numbers in mind.  Maybe they weren’t available, but data would be helpful.  A ratio of national earnings by income demographic would suffice.  Top of mind, make the cut-offs < $50k, $50k – $120k, $120k – $250k, $250k – $1m, > $1m.  That would be five income groups and the “rich” group would be easy enough to identify, and even adjust for cost of living.  But without something like that, your statement is as much political rhetoric as that which you are trying to refute.

[quote=rhare]

[quote=nacci]They will feel betrayed, angry and vengeful.[/quote]

No doubt, they have been lied to for a very very long time.  Unfortunately a lot of anger will be misdirected as this plays out at the “correction” that is occuring rather than at the unsustainable promises made.

[/quote]

That is the problem when neither party brokers in honesty.  Union busting is not going to fix the unsustainable issues.  Union busting has been a top priority of the Rep party for 40 years.  Listed below are years and the percent of workforce in a union.  Obviously any historical economic growth has to be taken with a grain of salt since it contributed to the unsustainable path we’re on.  But, declining per capita union membership tells me this is not a primary problem, but one of political ideology.  One oddity of the data series is that public union membership began trending up in 2000.  So a conservative president expands government so the party can later make expanding government the boogeyman.  Not blaming or making political points, other than the lack of honesty and clarity of purpose is mutual.  One group hides the truth to protect big corporations while the other tries to protect workers while appeasing corporations.  Same country club, just a different color locker.

1955, 32-percent

1970, 30-percent

1980, 23-percent

1985, 18-percent

1990, 16-percent

2000, 14-percent

2010, 12–percent

Above data taken from links below.

Keep in mind, the protests are about THE RIGHT to collective bargain, not whether you agree with the results of previous bargains.  Different topics.

http://www.mrswing.com/articles/Union_Membership_Good_News_Bad_News.html

http://www.bls.gov/cps/labor2005/chart3-11.pdf

  • Fri, Feb 18, 2011 - 07:58pm

    #19

    rhare

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    Re: Wisconson – sign of more to come?

[quote=Nacci]Union or anti-union it must be acknowledged that all of the workers rights that we, public sector or private, enjoy today have been hard fought and won by organized labor; the abolition of child labor, the eight hour work day, the forty hour work week, safety standards, sick time, vacation time, collective bargaining and on.[/quote]

No it doesn’t have to be acknowledged.  Some of these, including the “forty hour work week” occured or would have occured as a result of competition for workers.  

I should note, I have nothing against people forming unions as I think that is their right.  What I have a problem with is state sponsored unions.  Any worker should have the right to join or not join a union, and an employer should have the right to hire or not hire anyone they please.  Government should IMNSHO not be inolved in any way and should never be a party to collective bargining agreements.

  • Fri, Feb 18, 2011 - 08:12pm

    #20
    Rihter

    Rihter

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    Re: Wisconson – sign of more to come?

[quote=earthwise]

 

[quote=inga]

People are sick of bloated corporate profits.

[/quote]

No, people are sick of bloated government.

[/quote]

 

How do either one of you know what “people” are sick and tired of? I’m people, and I’m sick and tired of both of those things.

 

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