Why Vaccine-Produced Spike Proteins Are Not Cytotoxic

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  • Mon, Jun 21, 2021 - 12:49pm

    #1

    JAG

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    Why Vaccine-Produced Spike Proteins Are Not Cytotoxic





 

  • Mon, Jun 21, 2021 - 02:20pm

    #2

    Jim H

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    Does that mean the vaccines are safe? What is the point here JAG

Cytotoxicity is cell death.  Are we trying to be cute/technical and talk ourselves out of the fact that we are killing some of our healthy young people with the vax via myocarditis?  Been attacked Geert Vanden Bossche right out of the gate.  Aspects of the Bossche hypothesis are being proven correct with every variant vax breakthrough case.

I have found Been to be fairly useless in terms of leading edge thinking on Covid-19.  Granted, he has been open to early therapeutics… but that was so May 2020 (the date on my Ivermectin prescription).  We are in a different ballgame now that’s called, “can you fight off the vax” and we need to be armed for that battle, not disarmed by saying, “spike proteins are not cytotoxic” .  Blah

  • Mon, Jun 21, 2021 - 02:43pm

    #3
    davefairtex

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    that’s not the issue being addressed

The narrowly-framed issue that Dr Been actually attempting to address, is: “do the fake spike proteins get lodged in the ACE2 receptors and cause damage thereby?”

He is not addressing the larger question of toxicity.  He is just addressing the specific issue of the spike protein and the ACE2 receptors.

And he is just making an assertion.  Until that company executes an experiment (which I’m sure they’re just dying to do – because there’s such a large upside for them), we can’t know for sure.

Note that the onus is on them to prove it is safe.  It is NOT on us to prove menace.

And – at a human level – the fact that he went out and got the shot is probably a substantial motivation for him to “be right” on this issue.  That’s probably true writ large.  It is a rare person who can admit to making a mistake of this magnitude.

With his own body, even.

  • Mon, Jun 21, 2021 - 02:45pm

    #4
    2retired

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    Why Vaccine-Produced Spike Proteins Are Not Cytotoxic

A disappointing presentation; The parsing of words, what is cytotoxicity?; then saying things are not true; then constructing a narrative for that statement. It does appear that the spike protein is biologically active, that mechanism is of action is not clear, makes it no less real.

  • Mon, Jun 21, 2021 - 02:47pm

    #5
    brushhog

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    Why Vaccine-Produced Spike Proteins Are Not Cytotoxic

Interesting theory, one of many often contradictory takes. If you peruse the internet long enough, you’ll hear every theory under the sun, from the vax being a bioweapon designed to kill us…to the vax being a miracle of modern science that will save us all from certain death.

I have my strong suspicions but at the end of the day, I have to simply conclude “I dont know”. And I think thats true for all of us here. We dont really know what this vaccine is, what it does or how it behaves….this is a trial. Its an experiment.

If you want to be part of a trial and place your trust in the hands of big pharma then I say go for it. Just realize that none of these internet or mainstream talking heads are going to be there for you if things go wrong, and none of the arguments, charts, or scientific rationalizing will be worth a dime. You’ll be stuck with the consequences of your choice.

  • Mon, Jun 21, 2021 - 03:00pm

    #6
    brushhog

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    Reply To: Why Vaccine-Produced Spike Proteins Are Not Cytotoxic

“Note that the onus is on them to prove it is safe.  It is NOT on us to prove menace”

This x 1000. And the way to prove this is through transparent empirical data over time.

They’re going to have to A. collect enough data to demonstrate the long term safety of this vaccine  AND B. Convince me that the data collection, and analyzation  process they used was completely uncorrupted and trustworthy.

Now that 2nd one is going to be a tough nut to crack in the current climate of lies constantly coming out of the mainstream. I just dont see how any rational person can trust anything they hear right now. So, oddly, the vaccination becomes somewhat linked to the credibility of the mainstream that’s pushing it.

  • Mon, Jun 21, 2021 - 03:31pm

    #7
    wotthecurtains

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    Reply To: Why Vaccine-Produced Spike Proteins Are Not Cytotoxic

I always enjoy the logical thinking on here.

I often catch myself wondering if I should do what the authorities want in spite of their historical performance, their questionable methods, their many conflicts and the bizarre urgency of their messaging.

I’d hate to be someone in one of the well identified groups that is vulnerable to Covid itself.  Talk about having to pick your poison.

  • Mon, Jun 21, 2021 - 03:44pm   (Reply to #3)

    #8
    Catalina68

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    Why Vaccine-Produced Spike Proteins Are Not Cytotoxic

Lately with regard to those whom I have advised NOT to get these “gene therapy injections”, who subsequently did so anyway – I fixate on a quote by Mark Twain:

“It is easier to fool a man, than to convince him he has been fooled”.

I never express this outwardly to those individuals, as my admonitions against, have been out of concern, not an egotistical desire to be right.

  • Mon, Jun 21, 2021 - 03:50pm

    #9

    Quercus bicolor

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    Not so sure

First, he mentions that the J&J and Novovax vaccines have the mutation to prevent the S1-S2 cleavage.  What about the mRNA vaccines?

Second and more important, the leaked biodistribution data from animal studies shows the mRNA/lipid package being distributed throughout the body and accumulating in particular in the ovaries, bone marrow small intestine, lymph nodes, thyroid, pituitary gland and pancrease (No data was presented on  blood vessel epithelial cells, peripheral nervous system or brain).  The mRNA package is designed to enter cells, get them to replicate spike proteins, and present the spike proteins to the immune system.  This triggers the immune system to destroy the presenting cell – the definition of cytotoxicity.  If this is happening outside the deltoid muscle in vital organs and tissues, then it is a problem.  Note that this allows a cytotoxic pathway regardless of whether the spike protein escapes the cell in which it is produced and regardless of whether any escaped spike proteins are capable of binding with or entering other cells.

  • Mon, Jun 21, 2021 - 04:00pm

    #10
    davefairtex

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    what he said

QB-

The mRNA package is designed to enter cells, get them to replicate spike proteins, and present the spike proteins to the immune system. This triggers the immune system to destroy the presenting cell – the definition of cytotoxicity. If this is happening outside the deltoid muscle in vital organs and tissues, then it is a problem.

Yeah.  What he said.

Here’s my thought.  Perhaps – “most people” don’t have these lipid nanoparticle distribution issues.  But some people do.  And for them – well – they die.  Or suffer permanent injury.  Possibly due to the exact mechanism you describe.

In another thread, I brought up the concept of NNV – number needed to vaccinate to save one life.  Any guesses what NNV is (using current attack rates for COVID in the US) for 20 year olds?  Even assuming 100% protection from the shot?

Hint.  Its a very, very large number.

https://www.acsh.org/news/2020/11/18/covid-infection-fatality-rates-sex-and-age-15163

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