Why No Constitutional Legal Remedy in Commonwealth Countries – AU Law & Rights

Login or register to post comments Last Post 0 reads   17 posts
Viewing 10 posts - 1 through 10 (of 16 total)
  • Sat, Nov 13, 2021 - 03:36am

    #1
    HPHovercraft

    HPHovercraft

    Status Gold Member (Offline)

    Joined: Aug 31 2021

    Posts: 280

    count placeholder4

    Why No Constitutional Legal Remedy in Commonwealth Countries – AU Law & Rights

Dr Ben Saunders – Human Rights and Constitutional Law – interviewed by Matt Wong (Discernable)

I would suspect that this interview generalizes to other commonwealth countries (United Kingdom, Australia, Canada, New Zealand) so the first 10-20 minutes might interest those from countries other than Australia and States other than Victoria.

It presents what is perhaps the clearest argument that I have seen that the law in commonwealth countries regarding individual rights boils down to politics (group processes). That is, individuals have no protection from democratic (majority/mob rule) political processes.

It is an interview with an Australian academic specialising in constitutional law concerning the legal/judicial response to covid in Australia and the state of Victoria.

He also clearly indicates how the situation in US constitutional law is entirely different. God bless America!

That the courts/judiciary have been so disappointing in simply going along with the narrative in Australia is absolutely of no surprise to him.





Notes and time stamps for initial sections

1.00

Ben’s disclaimers

2.30

US vs Commonwealth Countries

In the Commonwealth countries, Rights are political rather than legal questions. Is a matter for the Parliament.

4.00

This explains why the courts have responded in the way that they have in Australia: this is a policy question for parliament to work out and the courts will not interfere with this.

The courts do NOT say: This is an unreasonable limitation

5.00

The courts see their role as the interpretation of the law. It is the political process that produces the laws.

5.30

The Charter of Human rights and Responsibilities in Victoria.

Toothless again, right? Yes. Because it does not change fundamentally the political nature of our system.

So what’s the point of it? Well, that’s a good question.

6.00

So is it a big virtue signal? Some would say that it is hypocritical piece of legislation because it looks like we are protecting rights but doesn’t really cost the government anything.

The protection of rights (in Australia) turns on political factors and so background political institutions.

11.30

Technical advice that varies with the polls.

Techocracy. The technical bureaucrats have been elevated politically rather than being distanced from and independent of the political (Westminster system).

Moral decisions are being disguised as scientific decisions.

Full timestamps

2:43 How Human Rights fit within the Australian legal system
3:48 The Australian legal system is different to the US legal system
5:35 The Victorian Charter of Human Rights and Responsibilities is toothless
8:08 Where do we get our human rights from?
8:38 Strong human rights relies on an effective political system
10:48 The medicalisation of politics and the politicisation of medical science
12:35 The rise of technocracy and the inability to measure cost/benefit ratios
15:20 We need more experts speaking about ethics!
16:48 Have we lost the culture of human rights?
21:03 Are we ignoring the Australian Constitution?
22:22 What the Constitution says about medical treatments
26:09 The Public Health and Wellbeing Amendment (Pandemic Management) Bill 2021
29:37 How is this different to a dictatorship?
33:36 There is now no area of life exempt from political and government control
35:37 What could be next for the Government to control
37:05 Should Human Rights protections be understood from a Natural Rights perspective or Positive Rights?
40:25 Is there an optimal system – The US system vs the Australian System?
42:45 Finding pleasure in law
44:01 The social environment that formed the Australian Constitution
45:10 Competitive Federalism lacking in Australia
46:20 The Australian Constitution’s importance compared to the US Constitution
47:57 The Victorian Constitution is not a constitution
49:18 Australian states can be constituted without a constitution
50:18 How do we determine derogable and non-derogable rights?
53:22 The European Union
54:12 Has the historical momentum of human rights been positive?
56:47 Is law is a lagging indicator of culture or does it create culture?
1:00:11 What is the future of human rights?

HP

  • Sat, Nov 13, 2021 - 06:49am

    #2
    KTB

    KTB

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 15 2020

    Posts: 45

    count placeholder2

    Why No Constitutional Legal Remedy in Commonwealth Countries – AU Law & Rights

Excellent interview.

Looks like there is a huge difference between Commonwealth countries and the US in that in the US, the rights of individuals are enshrined through the constitution which is inherently distrusting of government.

However, in the Commonwealth, “rights”  depend on a functioning government that is responsive the the will of the majority of the population. The weakness here is that the system assumes a diverse, functioning and impartial media that is not controlled by vested interests, Because of the centralised monopoly of the media that currently exists, the opinions of the masses are easily manipulated, and the government is in turn controlled by the media rather than the people.

It really sounds like the High Court is a lost cause in Commonwealth countries as it will always defer to the ruling of the government. In the Commonwealth the game then comes down to convincing the public of what is in their best interest which has to be done by means other than electronic media which censors any dissenting view.

  • Sat, Nov 13, 2021 - 10:40am

    #3
    westcoastjan

    westcoastjan

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 04 2012

    Posts: 1464

    count placeholder3

    Why No Constitutional Legal Remedy in Commonwealth Countries – AU Law & Rights

Some counter points found here:

https://action4canada.com/charter-right-resources/

The Federal Emergency Act preamble states clearly that emergency orders cannot, and do not, supersede the Charter of Rights and Freedoms and the Canadian Bill of Rights:

AND WHEREAS the Governor in Council, in taking such special temporary measures, would be subject to the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms and the Canadian Bill of Rights and must have regard to the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, particularly with respect to those fundamental rights that are not to be limited or abridged even in a national emergency;

All Statutes, by-laws, and Acts must be consistent with the Constitution…or they are of no force or effect.

Section 52(1) of the Constitution Act, 1982: The Constitution of Canada is the supreme law of Canada, and any law that is inconsistent with the provisions of the Constitution is, to the extent of the inconsistency, of no force or effect. ….

  • Sat, Nov 13, 2021 - 11:33am

    #4
    HPHovercraft

    HPHovercraft

    Status Gold Member (Offline)

    Joined: Aug 31 2021

    Posts: 280

    count placeholder1

    Canadian ‘Charter of Rights and Freedoms’

Hi westcoastjan,

Good point.  Just a quick reply for now.

Yes.  Someone else, @hotsauce mentioned the Canadian ‘Charter of Rights and Freedoms’ in another post, which I was starting to look into and it does seem to be the direction of the US constitution (and I think Ben did gesture towards this possibility).  I’m not sure how far, and one certainly gets the impression that Canada is not a great place to be at present and certainly does not seem to be mandate free.  I was going to try to contrast the Canadian Charter with the NZ Bill of Rights in a subsequent post to this thread, since they (the Kiwis) seem to be screwed like us (Australians), because their Bill embodies the principles (parliamentary supremacy) that Ben discusses.  On the other hand, I gather the Canadian Charter was a Bill and, perhaps wisely or prudently, it was subsequently strengthened (perhaps following the abuses that we have all come to expect from politicians).  To make things even more confusing, the toothless Victorian thing that Dan Andrews is riding roughshod over is also called a ‘Charter’, although Ben seemed to suggest that this is supposed to make some sort of difference.

HP

  • Sat, Nov 13, 2021 - 12:11pm

    #5
    You've been Nudged...!

    You've been Nudged...!

    Status Gold Member (Offline)

    Joined: Aug 28 2021

    Posts: 535

    count placeholder2

    100,000+ Person Protest In Melbourne Australia Against Forced Vax

MASSIVE 100,000+ Person Protest In Melbourne Australia For Medical Freedom/ Against Forced Vax – good soundtrack…




 

  • Sat, Nov 13, 2021 - 05:38pm

    #6
    KTB

    KTB

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 15 2020

    Posts: 45

    count placeholder1

    Why No Constitutional Legal Remedy in Commonwealth Countries – AU Law & Rights

By the way, HP hovercraft, thanks so much for your work and time stamps. and it is a good point Westcoastjan. Something I heard through Motivholic on YouTube is the need for everyone to set aside petty differences including those seen as left or right, and to unify against those who seek to take away our freedoms, our assets and perhaps even our lives. I guess that is what is implied by the name “Project Unity”.

We are in Queensland which is heading the way of Victoria, but the Dictator Dan situation is really extremely terrifying. I saw footage a couple of days ago of a doctors practice in Melbourne being raided by government officers to confiscate patients’ records presumably to incriminate someone of political influence Apparently Craig Kelly has been seeing this doctor. These are very strange times.

  • Sat, Nov 13, 2021 - 08:08pm   (Reply to #4)

    #7
    westcoastjan

    westcoastjan

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 04 2012

    Posts: 1464

    count placeholder3

    Why No Constitutional Legal Remedy in Commonwealth Countries – AU Law & Rights

We are indeed in trouble up here in Canada with mandates. It is all so surreal, as you know doubt find it also. It was truly dismaying to see Trudope get re-elected, but the thing is, it speaks more to our crappy unfair electoral system than anything. But to be sure, we seem to be in vax happy la la land, with some of the brainwashed actually asking for harsher restrictions so that was his support base.

I posted this a while back on another forum. It is worth a watch to help understand our Charter. The man interviewed, Brian Peckford, is the only surviving person who worked on the drafting of our cherished Charter of Rights. And make no mistake, the individual enjoys inalienable rights, but you would never know it the way they are being trampled on… 🙄😑

https://www.peakprosperity.com/forum-topic/brian-peckford-shooting-straight-from-the-hip/#post-657810

I think of you folks, both in Oz and NZ often, praying it is not a preview of what happens next up here…. be well and be strong! 💪🏻🙏🏻

Hi KTB,

Looks like there is a huge difference between Commonwealth countries and the US in that in the US, the rights of individuals are enshrined through the constitution which is inherently distrusting of government.

Yes, the cultural difference is enormous and important. I was speaking to some Scandinavians on another forum and they have all the freedom of speech stuff in their constitutions like the US (but obviously unlike most commonwealth countries). But they now also have very high vaccination rates (including Sweden) so as much as they might have dodged the worse of the immediate response to covid, they seem to be nonetheless, fully onboard for the coming mass vaccination disaster (if Geert vanden Bossche etal are correct). Of course, they are quite left leaning and so trust their governments which is turning out to be a huge cultural difference.  This does seem to be what is marking the US out as the great exception in the western world.

However, in the Commonwealth, “rights” depend on a functioning government that is responsive the the will of the majority of the population. The weakness here is that the system assumes a diverse, functioning and impartial media that is not controlled by vested interests, Because of the centralised monopoly of the media that currently exists, the opinions of the masses are easily manipulated, and the government is in turn controlled by the media rather than the people.

I agree that the MSM is a real problem. Though large parts at least of the MSM are dying, in part because they are being replaced by alternatives that in many ways seem more authentic and reliable, people like Matt Wong (Discernable). Network economies and such like might stand in the way of this process but it is happening.

This is an interesting MSM report of the protests (presumably the same as the ones which Nudged just posted about above which documents them as peaceful).





2.15 minute mark

So the mainstream media are finding themselves unwelcome. The comments on youtube suggest the obvious reasons why. I doubt that this would be the case for Matt Wong or, for instance, Rebel News.

It really sounds like the High Court is a lost cause in Commonwealth countries as it will always defer to the ruling of the government. In the Commonwealth the game then comes down to convincing the public of what is in their best interest which has to be done by means other than electronic media which censors any dissenting view.

The problem is that the problem seems to be much larger than just the MSM. It’s as difficult to have confidence in political processes as in the MSM. So many things can go wrong and, in a representation democracy with everything subordinated to politics (parliamentary supremacy), all someone has to do is get to the representatives. Indeed, it all seems designed in such a way that there are very obvious, yet non-transparent means to do this such as lobbying, so it is really designed to fail. In this case, they haven’t just bought the MSM but also our so-called representatives. Pfizer is rumoured to have made a donation of 63 mil to Liberal Party, and obviously they haven’t just donated to (bought) the Liberal party.

I’m much more inclined to favour the American approach of checks and balances, so one at least does not have all one’s eggs in one basket. At 36.30, Ben says (paraphrasing): The definition of a court is independence. Which sounds great, when everyone is being bought.

We are in Queensland which is heading the way of Victoria, but the Dictator Dan situation is really extremely terrifying.

Yes, Queensland is quite interesting because Anastasia hasn’t quite gone full retard with sweeping vax mandates in the way that Dan and Mark have (although at times she seems to have given the impression that she would). Perhaps it is the other locals (Clive, Pauline) that are keeping her in check (most of the senate revolt I discuss in my other thread seems to be coming from QLD).

I saw footage a couple of days ago of a doctors practice in Melbourne being raided by government officers to confiscate patients’ records presumably to incriminate someone of political influence Apparently Craig Kelly has been seeing this doctor. These are very strange times.

Yes. It does not seem to be at all unique. It reminds me of this:





15.00 minute mark

People are being fined $2K for attending a member of opposition’s office in Victoria.

The most incomprehensible thing that I have heard recently is that Andrews was supposedly ahead in the polls.

HP

  • Mon, Nov 15, 2021 - 02:39am

    #11
    KTB

    KTB

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 15 2020

    Posts: 45

    count placeholder1

    Reply to HP Hovercraft

Hi HP

Thanks for your response. It is a truly sick state of affairs that CCTV footage was seized by the government and that individuals who attended an opposition member’s office were heavily fined on the basis of the footage. Victoria is sounding very much like East Germany in the 50s, 60s and 70s. At first I questioned the sincerity of a video of doctors and patient’s records being seized by the government, but this turned out to be genuine. No reason for the raid was provided.

In Queensland, from 17th December we will not be allowed to go to a hairdresser for a haircut, go to a shop to buy clothes or shoes, to buy glasses, to go to any restaurant of cafe, to buy a book or a newspaper, to attend any government venue or any private business that is not sanctioned by the government. We are not even allowed to attend a hospital unless there is an emergency. Even Bill Gates acknowledges that the vaccines don’t stop transmission, so there is no basis for the apartheid other than punitive.

It is absolutely incredible that Dictator Dan is ahead in the poles. It has to be that his supporters are fed a narrative that you and I don’t see ….. and we see information that they don’t either. I think the electronic media is just so controlled we cannot expect to challenge the dominant narrative by this means. We have to leverage the “people power” of a very motivated group to spread the information that his supporters just don’t see. I am sure most Victorians – vaccinated or not – would not feel happy if they knew their confidential medical details were being scrutinized by government clerks and bureaucrats looking for misdemeanors or blackmail fodder, yet that is exactly what is happening!

Viewing 10 posts - 1 through 10 (of 16 total)

Login or Register to post comments