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Where’s Krogoth?

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Viewing 9 posts - 21 through 29 (of 29 total)
  • Fri, Dec 19, 2008 - 10:13am

    #21

    ckessel

    Status Silver Member (Online)

    Joined: Nov 12 2008

    Posts: 164

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    Re: Where’s Krogoth?

[quote=kowanalynn]

I personally find that the emotional quibbling that I have observed in posts here and there, to be distracting to the important issues, and denigrades the site.

Posts that share new sources of information, and offer solutions to problems posed are very valuable.

Chris, you are doing an amazing job – there will always be a percentage (very small) in any group that find fault and want to leave, due to their real or imagined injustices.

The important thing is to stick to doing what you are here to do, and ensure posts that do not align with your purposes are be removed, to preserve the highest value of this site.

Lynn

[/quote]

The above summarizes my opinions very well and I agree with Lynns recommendation.

  • Fri, Dec 19, 2008 - 10:22am

    #22

    ckessel

    Status Silver Member (Online)

    Joined: Nov 12 2008

    Posts: 164

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    Re: Where’s Krogoth?

[quote=barrt]

you know i bet he’s here, just reading and not venting

although mayeb his is, under a new name, would you spot him do you think?

[/quote]

Barrt,

Does it seem curious to you that Krogoth would decide to remove himself from the site just because someone else made a donation and used their real name? 

He was not being asked to reveal his identity or to pay anything but his upset seemed to be that another was doing so and that CM chose to acknowledge those efforts. 

That it would cause him such an upset tells me their is more to that story than maybe this site needs. Just a thought.

Coop

  • Fri, Dec 19, 2008 - 11:33am

    #23
    barrt

    barrt

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Aug 25 2008

    Posts: 101

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    Re: Where’s Krogoth?

I believe very passionately in FREEDOM and TRUTH, i think a lack of these two things are what has got the world into this mess, therefore what we need is more of both, IMHO anyway

So, don’t delete any posts, lunatics and fools must also be heard (the chaos part of Joe’s community building) and what’s a profanity amongst intelligent adults?

we need freedom badly, including freedom to swear, freedom to be an idiot, freedom to upset people, as long as the community have the freedom to slap you down, to ignore or ostracise you. Only that way can we find true community without tyrants or unjust laws, right Joe?

and coop from what i understand, Krogoth didn’t leave for those reasons but because one of his posts (probably a little abusive) was deleted. I think that was a mistake, if it was that vile a post then the community would have chased him off

Freedom, Truth, Love, Peace, Laughter, in that order please Wink

Love you guys x

barrt

oh and P.S, perhaps one of these drive bys is the big K, i would be very suprised if hes not lurking around, theres no way a guy like him could resist

Hi Krogoth! come back dude, we miss you Cry

  • Fri, Dec 19, 2008 - 09:20pm

    #24

    ckessel

    Status Silver Member (Online)

    Joined: Nov 12 2008

    Posts: 164

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    Re: Where’s Krogoth?

[quote=barrt]

I believe very passionately in FREEDOM and TRUTH, i think a lack of these two things are what has got the world into this mess, therefore what we need is more of both, IMHO anyway

So, don’t delete any posts, lunatics and fools must also be heard (the chaos part of Joe’s community building) and what’s a profanity amongst intelligent adults?

we need freedom badly, including freedom to swear, freedom to be an idiot, freedom to upset people, as long as the community have the freedom to slap you down, to ignore or ostracise you. Only that way can we find true community without tyrants or unjust laws, right Joe?

and coop from what i understand, Krogoth didn’t leave for those reasons but because one of his posts (probably a little abusive) was deleted. I think that was a mistake, if it was that vile a post then the community would have chased him off

Freedom, Truth, Love, Peace, Laughter, in that order please Wink

Love you guys x

barrt

oh and P.S, perhaps one of these drive bys is the big K, i would be very suprised if hes not lurking around, theres no way a guy like him could resist

Hi Krogoth! come back dude, we miss you Cry

[/quote]

Barrt,

Well that makes somewhat more sense as for his reasons. Thanks for the viewpoint.

I also think that in addition to the points you mention above that there are two key points that could be added.

1) Knowledge

2) Responsility

They are not independent in that with an increase in knowledge (as one might gain from this site) there is also a corresponding increase in the level of responsibility that a person would have to take to keep it available to others.

If CM did not shoulder that responsibility then there is a good likelyhood the site could degenerate into some sort of reality show where members would be spending the majority of effort simply bickering. My point here is that the Knowledge that CM has taken the time and effort to make available to all also entitles (requires) him to take the level of responsibility to keep it clean and available. He does this when the membership fails to do so themselves.

Liken it to a parent managing the household. When the kids don’t take responsibility to keep from fighting with each other the parents have to step in. Failure to do so creates an obvious mess. The kids don’t like the disipline and sometimes go through all manner of emotions. Let’s help CM not have to change our diapers as he is also trying to educate.  (WINK)

Coop

  • Sat, Dec 20, 2008 - 04:50am

    #25

    caroline_culbert

    Status Gold Member (Offline)

    Joined: Oct 02 2008

    Posts: 254

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    Re: Where’s Krogoth?

[quote=ckessel][quote=barrt]

I believe very passionately in FREEDOM and TRUTH, i think a lack of these two things are what has got the world into this mess, therefore what we need is more of both, IMHO anyway

So, don’t delete any posts, lunatics and fools must also be heard (the chaos part of Joe’s community building) and what’s a profanity amongst intelligent adults?

we need freedom badly, including freedom to swear, freedom to be an idiot, freedom to upset people, as long as the community have the freedom to slap you down, to ignore or ostracise you. Only that way can we find true community without tyrants or unjust laws, right Joe?

and coop from what i understand, Krogoth didn’t leave for those reasons but because one of his posts (probably a little abusive) was deleted. I think that was a mistake, if it was that vile a post then the community would have chased him off

Freedom, Truth, Love, Peace, Laughter, in that order please Wink

Love you guys x

barrt

oh and P.S, perhaps one of these drive bys is the big K, i would be very suprised if hes not lurking around, theres no way a guy like him could resist

Hi Krogoth! come back dude, we miss you Cry

[/quote]

Liken it to a parent managing the household. When the kids don’t take responsibility to keep from fighting with each other the parents have to step in. Failure to do so creates an obvious mess. The kids don’t like the disipline and sometimes go through all manner of emotions. Let’s help CM not have to change our diapers as he is also trying to educate.  (WINK)

Coop

[/quote]

Why not let the kids resolve their own problems?  Why intercede when they’re "fighting/arguing"?  Of course this leads to:  Many of us have the ability to restrain ourselves (and others) when needed.  Likewise we can also BE humbled by others and it does not necessarily have to be Chris.  Let’s not assume that he will change our diapers…

  • Sat, Dec 20, 2008 - 04:57am

    #26

    caroline_culbert

    Status Gold Member (Offline)

    Joined: Oct 02 2008

    Posts: 254

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    Re: Where’s Krogoth?

CoolHas anyone seen Krogoth?  Maybe he’s on vacation!!Cool

YellK…r…o..G..O…T…H..!…!

  • Sat, Dec 20, 2008 - 06:30pm

    #28

    joe bender

    Status Gold Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 17 2008

    Posts: 328

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    Re: Where’s Krogoth?

caroline he is  in taiwan and he is not coming back here. it is time to move on dear

  • Sat, Dec 20, 2008 - 08:44pm

    #27

    jrf29

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Apr 18 2008

    Posts: 166

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    Re: Where’s Krogoth?

I propose a middle road as far as post deletion.  I think that there is a delicate balance to be struck. 

Deleting any post quick as a wink merely because it injects a a point of view that is loud and dissenting can lead very rapidly to outright censorship.  Communities have an ever-present tendency to turn inward, if one is not careful.  But we’re not here to sit around agreeing with each other all day!  New readers, if they are not brain-dead, can be expected to come here with some big questions and some strong ideas.  "Chris Martenson’s a quack!" might be one of them.  These ideas must be heard, if they are expressed intelligently, and respectfully.

On the other hand, this website exists to discuss serious issues, and any good conversation requires some degree of protection in order to flourish.  A conversation that is constantly reset to the "lowest-common-deominator-setting" can never make progress, and those who used to be interested in furthering the dialogue will become discouraged and move on.  It is difficult to make progress when there’s some guy in the background constantly shouting:  "Jon is an %&*@!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" or "Buy my product which I’m going to advertise right now…"  As this website gets bigger, we will experience more and more of those kinds of posts.

If a comment has any possible redeeming intellectual value, then it has a right to be here.  If someody makes a logically constructed statement with a beginning, a middle, and an end; with a premise, an argument, evidence, and a conclusion, and if the words are not lewd, vulgar, profane, or uncivil, or else so completely off topic (e.g., statistical analysis of deceptive caching behavior in tree squirrels) that the statement could not conceivably contribute to discussion, then it probably ought to be respected. 

On the other hand if a person makes a statement that can be essentially boiled down to: "You’re all donkey’s a**, and I hate you, and you all need to…." then this comment cannot ever lead to a positive outcome, because it contains no objective basis for a discussion, and the range of possible responses by the community is limited to:

(a)  A simple denial, or

(b) Further unproductive statements directed toward the poster.

Another poster suggested that the community will eventually shout
such people out.  But at what cost?  It drowns out the real
conversation, and it’s a never-ending battle that we would eventually lose.  So instead of constantly listening to the back and forth of: "Hey, you can’t advertise your mail-order shampoo on this website!"  "Can too!"  "Can not!" "Can too!" why not simply stop the problem where it begins? 

People who make such posts are not really interested in having a dialogue, so why reward them with one?

  • Tue, Dec 23, 2008 - 06:24am

    #29

    caroline_culbert

    Status Gold Member (Offline)

    Joined: Oct 02 2008

    Posts: 254

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    Re: Where’s Krogoth?

[quote=joe2baba]caroline he is  in taiwan and he is not coming back here. it is time to move on dear [/quote]

Cry

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