Where is the solution Chris

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  • Sun, Feb 14, 2010 - 06:54am

    #31
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    Re: Where is the solution Chris

I know it’s trite but the first step to solving a problem is understanding the problem. And it is my impression that most people aren’t aware that there is a problem.  And you need a critical mass of people who are aware of the problem before a workable solution can even be discussed let alone achieved.

In another context there are some who don’t even want to speak out in their communities out of fear of being labeled an odd-ball.  So the de facto solution is people preparing more or less in isolation.  Transition families before transition communities is fine except that preparation is easier if there is the positive reinforcement and support of the surrounding communitiy.   The sort of thing Coop is doing needs to be done first is what I’m trying to say.

  • Sun, Feb 14, 2010 - 07:34am

    #32
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    Re: Where is the solution Chris

https://www.peakprosperity.com/forum/aligning-solutions-our-monetary-crisis/26913

All I’m asking for is for Chris, who is clearly an intelligent person, to engage in some open and honest discussion about solutions.  I’m guessing from the author of this thread that I’m not the only one who is getting tired of hearing about problems and wants to engage in talk about solutions.

I’ve sent multiple personal requests to try to achive this very type of dialoge with no success.  That is why I created that posting close to half a year ago without any reply to date.

What will it take for Mr. Martenson to engage in open and honest dicussion about solutions?

I’m also wondering if part of the mission statement Mr. Martenson advocates is aligning with solutions why would Mr. Martenson give push any action to censor solutions?  Also the author of that thread was wondering what we would do without credit, the simple answer is use money.

As you’ve asked I haven’t linked, or talked about the MTA since.  I’m just confused why Chris would oppose stopping the exponential growth of debt?

  • Sun, Feb 14, 2010 - 08:00am

    #33
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    Re: Where is the solution Chris

[quote=Thomas Hedin]

https://www.peakprosperity.com/forum/aligning-solutions-our-monetary-crisis/26913

All I’m asking for is for Chris, who is clearly an intelligent person, to engage in some open and honest discussion about solutions.  I’m guessing from the author of this thread that I’m not the only one who is getting tired of hearing about problems and wants to engage in talk about solutions.

[/quote]

To assert that Dr. Chris has not put forth some of his own ideas about solutions is to assert that leopards have not ‘splained their spots.  

Methinks you are only interested in a discussion of the one subject that evidently consumes your waking thoughts.  I’m not saying that discussion isn’t relevant or interesting.  But the issues at hand are ever-so-much more diverse than What Shall We Do About Our Currency.  Which IME is the only bell you ring.  Haven’t you read https://www.peakprosperity.com/blog/time-audit-or-some-competition/33878?  It very clearly sets out one of Dr. Chris’ ideas about possible options vis-a-vis a healthier currency environment.

And re “I’m not the only one who is getting tired of hearing about problems and wants to engage in talk about solutions,” — dude, as I said earlier in this thread:

[quote=SagerXX]

IMO a large part of the problem is that too many people are standing around waiting for someone to tell them what to do.  Seems to me thoughtful intelligent people can — once they understand the nature and the magnitude of the issues confronting us — begin almost immediately to figure out numerous actions they can take to prepare for the changes that’re coming.  YMMV, naturally.

[/quote]

Apart from your fave hobbyhorse (MTA), I would love to hear some of your ideas.  We all have to stand on our own two feet, eventually.  In the meantime, I’m avidly hoovering up info from other folks so as to better make up my mind.  I’d dig the chance to hear what you have to say about Solutions (apart from the MTA, which I’ve been reading about for 9-ish months now).

Just one man’s opinion…and now, back to speed skating (which I dearly dearly enjoy)…

Viva — Sager

  • Sun, Feb 14, 2010 - 11:37am

    #34
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    Re: Where is the solution Chris

So Doctor Chris, where are you? I see many disciples here defending you with unrelevant gibberish, but we like to hear from the man himself or are you to busy tracking your sales numbers?

[Ed. note:  Helpful criticism is always welcome, but this is clearly calculated to be insulting and antagonistic.  We do not allow this sort of post no matter who it is directed at.  One more post of this sort will be your last on this site.]

  • Sun, Feb 14, 2010 - 01:46pm

    #35
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    Re: Where is the solution Chris

Turtle,

You are truly [uninformed], huh?

On second thought, maybe you shouldn’t answer that.Wink

  • Sun, Feb 14, 2010 - 01:58pm

    #36
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    Re: Where is the solution Chris

On third thought maybe we should all be respectful and await Mr. Martenson’s answer.

  • Sun, Feb 14, 2010 - 02:08pm

    #37
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    Re: Where is the solution Chris

[quote=turtle1663]

So Doctor Chris, where are you?

[/quote]

Considering the fact that today is Sunday and that Dr. Martenson has a speaking tour in Europe coming up this week that has been advertised prominently on this site, it seems rather obvious that the most likely answer is that he’s on an airplane somewhere over the Atlantic. Or perhaps he’s in his office and simply had the good sense not to waste his valuable time responding.

[quote=turtle1663]

or are you to busy tracking your sales numbers?

[/quote]

Dr. Martenson is so far from profit-motivated that by raising this baseless objection you are flaunting your ignorance to a degree you are probably not even capable of comprehending.

Erik

[Ed. note: Edited at the request of the poster]

  • Sun, Feb 14, 2010 - 02:28pm

    #38
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    Re: Where is the solution Chris

His answer is obviously education & get your stuff together and community build.

If you can’t figure that out you need to repeat Kindergarten (Crash Course chapters 1-20).

Like flying, if you have an engine fire in both engines and ignore it, don’t annunciate it, get on the CNBS PA an tell the pax it is getting better you are going to create a flaming lawn dart. Bernake, Geithner, Romer, Summers et al are doing this now.

I’ve never complained to CM or a moderator but the fact of the matter, and CM said this in CA: We do need a non debt backed currency, (paraphrased). 

But that is NOT the only thing we need. In fact, that will in turn bleed resources and energy faster.

Personally I respect folks who work towards 1/3rd of the goal. Canning the Fed is admirable – but coming into 4-10 years of a mans hard work and sounding like you know the solution when you are only looking at 33% of it – and the 33% that goes behind the horse I have nothing but disdain for.

CM and many others like myself respect Al Bartlett’s work. The best thing he ever said was our solutions create more problems.

  • Sun, Feb 14, 2010 - 03:32pm

    #39
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    Re: Where is the solution Chris

Turtle,

I’m looking for the unrelavant gibberish, but I to, can’t see it.
Errors intentional.

Your questions have been addressed and answered. DR. Martenson is probably very busy and doesn’t owe any one of us anything – in fact, the reason you see “disciples” is because we are indebted to him for providing us both the information and the medium with which to freely exchange ideas and discuss challenges. Perhaps we’re less disciples as we are guests who respect our host, his rules, and are thankful for what he’s given.

Telegraphing your intentions with thinly veiled slights like:
[quote]turtle1663 wrote:
or are you to busy tracking your sales numbers?[/quote]

Says to me that you are a troll who is looking to start trouble.

Further (and perhaps this is more unrelavant gibberish) but you said:
[quote]but we like to hear from the man himself[/quote]

“We” is a misleading phrase, as most of us here understand the purpose and placement (top right corner – don’t stop ’till you see “google”) of the search function.

Not speaking for anyone but myself, but none of us have time to redress the same questions ad infinitum everytime someone new shows up demanding personal responses.

This has been covered – in the crash course.
If that doesn’t satisfy you, you’ll get farther here by discourse than slander.
In the meantime, you might want to inprove your reading comprehension, because I see several intelligent responses to your question, none of which are gibberish. If you’ve got a water-tight arguement you want to bring to Chris, perhaps you’d better hone your rhetorical prowess here with the weak-minded disciples.

Cheers,

Aaron

  • Sun, Feb 14, 2010 - 03:54pm

    #41
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    Re: Where is the solution Chris

turtle1663,

You raise a very valid question that I’ve been working on myself for the past year and a half since I watched the Crash Course.  In fact, I was working on the problem since 2003 but without Chris pointing me in the right direction I was lost looking at mainstream economics for answers. 

Chris’ Crash Course promotes awareness of the interconnected issues.  He has built this website to bring people together globally to work cooperatively on the problems.  Chris put sufficient scare into me that I quit my job, bought a farm, and now raise cattle with my father-in-law who has a lifetime of experience to draw upon.  I did this to create a backdrop so that I could work more directly on the solution.  I’m not encumbered with Chris’ responsibilities and I remain in awe of his steadfast commitment to change.

In my efforts to reperform the “examination of the elephant life a blind man” here are the various topics I’ve explored in some depth:

Monetary Theory (partial list):

Replace debt based money system – play defense for now: avoid debt

Use complementary currencies to complement our current patriarchal money system (Bernard Lietaer)

Wisely use fiat money (start by understanding fiat “The Lost Science of Money” from http://www.monetary.org but no silver bullet solution as proposed – this world may be highly dysfunctional but it does run on fiat)

Recognize precious metals as temporary stores of material wealth

Work done by Silvio Gessell (on my list to explore – his work could have averted the Depression and WWII but Keynesian prevailed)

Agriculture:

Permaculture (extends well past agriculture into a holistic thought process for human actions in material world)

Holistic Management (I’ll include Managed Intensive Grazing as a subset – but this is the element of animal husbandry that complements permaculture)

Joel Salatin (“let the animals do the work” and “Beyond Organic” and “Multiple Use Buildings”) – Joel is a humble farmer but a titan

Biodynamic Farming (vegetables on a sustainable mass scale)

Biointensive Agriculture (particularly useful for urban farming and areas of the world high in population density)

Slow Money (I also like the idea of tracing our food back to source and owning farms with equal ownership and hiring a farmer and sharing in the bounty – throw in eco tourism and tying city folk to rural folk)

Heritage animals, heirloom seeds, seed saving, soil testing and adding amendments

Using fossil fuels to reshape farmland with holistic thought process in mind

Farm bioregionally not geographically

Food preparation:

“Nourishing Traditions” by Sally Fallon

Food preservation: Root cellars, solar food drying, canning, freezing, and other techniques used in the past

Eating in season and getting vegetables to plate full of life

Raw milk properly prepared

Artisan cheeses, baking, etc.

Eating less meat for some, more for others (but all are certainly free to make their choices) – but the way the animals are raised is critical

Buildings and energy:

Renewable energy systems, conservation using insulation and better sealing, strawbale houses, passive houses

Planting trees, lots of trees, more trees – combine this with Permaculture’s Forest Gardening

Social technologies (of which monetary theory is a subset):

Social psychology (my favorite: action leads to changes in attitude, converse intuitive but change in attitude does not necessarily lead to action)

Humans highly successful in groups – nothing we do is in isolation

World Cafe, MaestroConference, internet, forums

Books like Malcolm Gladwell “The Tipping Point” and “Blink”, Chip Heath and Dan Heath “Made To Stick”, Tim Sanders’ “The LikeabiLity Factor”

Ecology economics (near the top of my list to read is “For the Common Good” by Cobb and Daly)

Reworking democracy: “The Tao of Democracy” is also near the top of my list to read

Georgism Economics (always on my list to explore but I always put something above it – time is short – the elephant is huge)

Child led learning (within the home but a reworking of educational institutions is essential)

Living Life to the Fullest with The Least Human Impact: Mike Nickerson’s “Life, Money and Illusion” – buy from http://www.sustainwellbeing.net

Pursuing activities to promote quality of life (singing, dancing, music, and on and on) that have cultural value but little impact on the Earth

Spirtual concepts like: Buddist “The Middle Way”, Compassion leading to Happiness and vice versa, separate “Ego” from “Being”, even a fantastic book I found: “Women Who Love Sex” by Dr. Gina Ogden (hilarious to find evidence of our patriarchal worldthought extending into sex), E.F. Schumacher’s concept of “divergent problems versus convergent problems”, book “tuesdays with Morrie” (on my list to read to help with a death in our family)

To give a fuller answer of my thought process I am I’m going to include a post that I made within subscriber forums.

I’d summarize by saying:

Chris’ Crash Course promotes awareness.  To fully appreciate where we need to go we need to deepen our understanding and then take action in the right direction. 

I’m trying to build a roadmap to help others but so far the above (and my next post) is the best I can do so far.

Cheers,

James

 

 

 

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