When Central Banks Rule the World Part – Joan Veon

Login or register to post comments Last Post 1369 reads   45 posts
Viewing 10 posts - 31 through 40 (of 45 total)
  • Fri, Oct 23, 2009 - 10:36pm

    #31
    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Oct 31 2017

    Posts: 1583

    count placeholder0

    Re: When Central Banks Rule the World Part – Joan Veon

[quote]

Con mucho gusto.  Thank you as well.  This discussion actually gives me some hope.  Instead of writing me off as nuts because I differ with the academic mainstream, you’re willing to enter with curiosity…that’s rare strength. [/quote]

Yes, and I hope you don’t write off the academic mainstream.  I’m puzzled how you greet books with more cynism than youtube?  At least “101” liberal arts programs present many angles. 

[quote]
Neoclassical econ has many theories that very conveniently serve the rich, screw the poor, ignore the dangers of debt/risk, and justify the financial sector’s rape of the productive sector.  I don’t think that’s an accidental result.[/quote]

I disagree, but want to keep this on Fed/currency.  I am not preaching to a choir, here, but am the odd man out.

[quote] from my earlier post:
I understand paper currency, or legal tender, etc. to have value assigned it by a central bank who has control over printing it.  Between a mandate of price stability and full employment this bank is charged with balancing the two ends of wealth preservation and wealth creation.  In order to finance wealth creation and full employment that is consistent with potential GDP, paper/”fiat” currency, M1, or whatever we’re going to call it needs to rise as the working capital for global growth.
[/quote]
[quote] your reply
This is the academic perspective but it doesn’t fit with reality. The dollar has lost 97% of its value since the Fed was created…Obviously didn’t work for Greenspan as he believed your paragraph above but after enough years of all of us being lured into believing this as a religion, the international bankers, or natural forces, proved us wrong…..Theories that don’t fit with reality are bad theories and academics should be looking at reality to figure out what’s really going on.
[/quote]

Your anecdotes suggest you were employed in an international capacity?  I grant you that the US has enjoyed a certain international price maker status over others currency, but am going to focus on domestic reality.  So, lets climb out of the textbook world and borrow an empiric from you.  97% inflation is what you said ocurred since the Fed’s inception.  That was 1913, which works out to less than 1% inflation (compounded) per year.  I don’t know the veracity of your number, but it fits perfectly with the neoclassical theory you reject.  The money supply should grow along with potential GDP.  Greenspan and others before him didn’t get it wrong until they exceeded potential GDP with amounts of liquidity and debt growth that exceeded the growth in the economy’s resources.  Growth until that point was not a problem.

[quote]
It’s the private aristocracy behind the creation of the central banks in the first place, and the super rich financial predators that play the game with them like Soros, who have the power.[/quote]
Then maybe currency racketeering should be baned so the old system can resume working in the international context.  Maybe holdings should be registered and limited.  I think you throw the baby out with the bathwater with the supposition that monetary economics are a farce.  I bet you can’t hardly name me an aristocrat that was ever happy with fed induced inflation to make employment gains.  The aristocracy, or at least industrialists, lived on monopoly wealth, not Uncle Sam.  Wealth that got eroded just like your’s and mine.

[quote] from my earlier post, rather than simply saying “Too far right…Too far left…”:
I would debate…what would happen without it.  The odds are this county would loose its rapid response system to moderating the politically entrenched direction in which it’s headed.  Too far right takes us back to a gold standard, economic performance below potential GDP, monopoly, unemployment, critical wealth stratification…. followed by social unrest.  Too far left bankrupts the country, confiscates wealth, alienates the savers, breeding fear and economic stagnation from the other end.
[/quote]

When you say the villan is outside the left/right spectrum, I agree with you, but to me that exemption is allowed by corruption in government and much less so, the obsolescence of our federal system.  I wouldn’t stump for either party on banking, as Goldman’s infiltration is about as high as the prudent will to reform among the democratic party.  We could go on and on, you know that, but the point I would leave on this subject is to fight for reform and not leave this process for gold and farmland.  I genuinely mean that.  The only reason I’m here is because I know someone else who is, who I think has been negatively affected in a way that goes well beyond finance.  Chris Martenson needs a better appreciation for the affects of what he is attempting to teach.

  • Sat, Oct 24, 2009 - 12:06am

    #32
    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Oct 31 2017

    Posts: 1583

    count placeholder0

    Re: When Central Banks Rule the World Part – Joan Veon

finpro, there is no diversity in econ 101 in the US.  You can’t get into the profession if you don’t repeat neoclassical hogwash.  Checkout Steve Keen’s website debtwatch to see one Aussie’s perspective who has nailed neoclassical to the wall for its false assumptions.  Those false assumptions have brought the world economy to its knees.  It doesn’t seem you realize it yet.  I think your friend who has decided to live more sustainably, if that’s what he has done, is quite prescient. That shouldn’t preclude him from fighting for reform…many on CM.com discuss reform.  

Yes I’m thankful for youtube and the internet.  It’s the only source of bottom-up information at this point (though Sen Rockefeller is trying hard to gain control of it).  Everything else is top-down controlled.  You need editors, academic hierarchies, foundations to decide for you what’s accurate? Need to be able to rely on facts and the evidence you see in reality, in diverse opinions, in your surroundings, and in your gut vs. ivy-league theories that have been proven dead wrong.  

The problem didn’t start when Greenspan pushed liquidity beyond potential GDP.  Had key legislation and monetary policies not been enacted along the way to enable further credit inflation, the economy probably would’ve crashed in 87, and if not certainly in 98 when Long Term Capital failed.  Now that they’ve continued “saving” us from those failures, we’re in for a doozy.

You earlier said a role of the central banks was to stabilize currency, prices, growth.  Yet I mention the 97% loss of value in the dollar and you use it as evidence that the Fed serves us well?  If their job was to keep it at roughly zero then for every 1% year there would’ve been an occasional  -1% year so that the dollar was still a dollar.  Instead it’s lost almost all its value.  I’d say the evidence indicates the purpose of creating the Fed was quite different from what economists always told us.

[quote]I bet you can’t hardly name me an aristocrat that was ever happy with fed induced inflation to make employment gains[/quote]

Whoa nelly.  Rockefeller, Rothschild, Soros, Morgan, Warburg, Lazard, etc. and the jackasses that work for them like Jamie Dimon at JPM Chase. Jamie is just a lowly worker bee, but by serving the aristocracy, he loves endless credit inflation. The aristocracy are the very people that benefit from central banking driven inflation and the related commercial banking inflation because it keeps governments and people in line. And they need high levels of employment or the little people bring out their pitchforks.  The aristocracy are the ones that created the banking establishment. They also benefit because banking inflation is accomplished by putting people in more debt…helps control them.  They don’t blindly keep their wealth in worthless dollars or electronic digits in a bank like most people so no they don’t suffer the 97% loss on the currency. They buy hard assets and push their liquid capital around the world.

I didn’t say the villain is outside the left/right spectrum.  In my view a villian IS the left/right spectrum which keeps us all from the truth and at each other’s throats.  

 

  • Sat, Oct 24, 2009 - 12:12am

    #33
    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Oct 31 2017

    Posts: 1583

    count placeholder0

    Re: When Central Banks Rule the World Part – Joan Veon

Finpro;

You are very fortunate to have one of the most knowledgable persons around, taking the time to patiently explain all of this to you . . . Hundreds of people on this site, wish that they’d had the opportunity that you are being afforded, at your age.  You would do well to let go of the idea that you have a first-rate education, and let the real education begin.  Economics 101 is worse than no economic education at all, because it fills you with false ideas that get in the way of learning the truth . . . Buckle your seat belt, and have a latte, because Strabes is kindly trying to take you on a tour of reality . . . That’s a gift . . .

  • Sat, Oct 24, 2009 - 02:46am

    #34
    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Oct 31 2017

    Posts: 1583

    count placeholder0

    Re: When Central Banks Rule the World Part – Joan Veon

If banks actually lent their money, or at least backed it up, then maybe an argument could be made to justify the debt.  But that’s not happening.

The banks accept interest bearing T-bills and bonds as collateral against government loans.  We the people, solely back up both private and public loans with collateral.  There is no fair or logical reason for a nation to borrow their own money.  The banks provide services that could be profitably compensated in the form of transaction fees for credit checks, collections and disbursements.  They should not be paid a percentage to loan money that didn’t exist until someone borrowed it.

Banks should be able to continue offering private loans but instead of creating the money for free, they should be required to borrow it from the treasury, with interest added.  They can mark up the rate for a profitable spread but they should never have the power to create money – that’s constitutionally mandated to be a function of government.  By having to pay for their product, like all other businesses, they would take on more borrowing risks which might go a long way towards responsible lending.

Are we better off with a private banking cartel stealing our money and driving us into financial ruin?

The question becomes – are the people capable of governing themselves?  Has the great American experiment failed?

According to Ben Franklin, we fought the revolutionary war to rid ourselves of the bank of england.  Now, we seem to be welcoming them back.  I agree with strabes, this craziness could not happen if history were taught factually and economics became a science instead of a belief system.

Larry

  • Mon, Oct 26, 2009 - 12:24am

    #35
    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Oct 31 2017

    Posts: 1583

    count placeholder0

    Re: Separation of Bank and State

Hey Larry-

   Your Ben Frankin reference hit on a theme that’s been running around in my head for a few days now: the idea of the “Separation of Bank and State”. 

   The United States was founded on profound and important ideals, such as the “Separation of Church and State”.  But another ideal on which the US was founded was the “Separation of Bank and State”.  Only by corrupting the original Constitution has that latter ideal been stolen from us.  That, in turn,  effectively pulled a leg out from under other core ideals that define the US, including “all men being created equal” and our inaliable rights of “life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness”. 

   More  than money has been stolen from us.  They have also stolen ideals on which our (once) great country was based.

  • Mon, Oct 26, 2009 - 03:34pm

    #36
    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Oct 31 2017

    Posts: 1583

    count placeholder0

    Re: When Central Banks Rule the World Part – Joan Veon

 

 A subtle alternative strategy to pursed lips and prayer…

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlLWHACzOb0

 

 

ps. Read/watch “The name of the Rose” to understand why humour is deadly serious…. and because it’s a damn good book/film…

 not enough time.. ok.. see clip:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gU2-e-N0_M8

 

 

  • Mon, Oct 26, 2009 - 04:18pm

    #37
    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Oct 31 2017

    Posts: 1583

    count placeholder0

    Re: When Central Banks Rule the World Part – Joan Veon

Hello pinecarr,

You make a great point about getting back to basics and I agree that inalienable rights come from our creator and not from the state.  The state does not have the power to give or take our rights.  The right to issue money is a sovereign right of a nation, not banks. 

Famous monetary reformer and presidential candidate William Jennings Bryan said:

“We say in our platform that we believe that the right to coin money and issue money is a function of government.  We believe it. We believe it is a part of sovereignty and can no more with safety be delegated to private individuals than can the power to make penal statutes or levy laws for taxation.

Mr. Jefferson, who was once regarded as good Democratic authority, seems to have a different opinion from the gentleman who has addressed us on the part of the minority. 

Those who are opposed to this proposition tell us that the issue of paper money is a function of the bank and that the government ought to go out of the banking business.  I stand with Jefferson rather than with them, and tell them, as he did, that the issue of money is a function of the government and that the banks should go out of the governing business.”

Larry

  • Mon, Oct 26, 2009 - 04:35pm

    #38
    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Oct 31 2017

    Posts: 1583

    count placeholder0

    Re: When Central Banks Rule the World Part – Joan Veon

 

” The state does not have the power to give or take our rights.”

 Correct.. YOU DO.

 IF you realise your own power.

  If you feel powerless.. you are. If you don’t you’re not.

 This includes the feeling that you can’t act alone.. that you need to wake up society as a whole.. before you dare.

 

 

” The right to issue money is a sovereign right of a nation, not banks.”

 Wrong (IMHO),

 YOU define the money.. depending upon what YOU exchange your time and actions for.

What you will offer, what you’ll accept.

 

 

 The meta-fraud, above all the other frauds like fiat money, industrial “medicine”, state schooling,

is that you are powerless… helpless, a poor victim.

 

 You’re not.

 

 There are two lessons in “The wizard of oz” .. one monetary.. one psychological..

 

 “if I only had a brain”….

 

 

 

  • Mon, Oct 26, 2009 - 04:53pm

    #39
    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Oct 31 2017

    Posts: 1583

    count placeholder0

    The Disempowering Power of Ridicule

(How’s that for an awkwardly stated title?)

If ridicule and mockery could fix our country, Jon Stewart would be our savior, and no man would be safe from his wit.  While the second part of that sentence may be a fact, my point is that mockery and ridicule can destroy, but they cannot create.  Nor do they truly enlighten.  On the contrary, they have a unique ability to distort the truth. 

Another problem with ridicule is that it creates the illusion that the mockers are smarter and more competent than the ridiculees . . . This is rarely true, as can be easily witnessed at any sports bar.  The vast majority of armchair quarterbacks are clearly not more competent than the fellow on the ground.  The danger in believing in our own onmiscience is that we will underestimate the cleverness of our opponents.

These are some of the reasons that I am no fan of Jon Stewart.  It is not difficult to ridicule our government . . . They provide abundant opportunities for mockery, every day.  I daresay that Stewart’s most difficult job is to decide which tomfoolery he’ll ridicule on any given day.  In fact, I would say that it takes a fair amount of restraint to not make fun of our officials, but to rather maintain a serious tone of sober disapproval.  I admit that I, too, have ridiculed our public officials, and while it provides some temporary relief from the illusion that I am going crazy, I do not delude myself into the notion that I am engaging in a constructive behavior.

The constructive power of prayer, on the other hand, is beyond the scope of this forum, judging by what little I can glean from its broadly stated policies. 

 

  • Mon, Oct 26, 2009 - 05:18pm

    #40
    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Oct 31 2017

    Posts: 1583

    count placeholder0

    Re: When Central Banks Rule the World Part – Joan Veon

 

 Ah.. but WHAT can comedy destroy… pomposity, hubris, stupidity, nonsense..  it’s the law of non-contradiction in divine form… so pure it hurts.

 

 Logic can do the same.. but it’ll be decades before a computer can be a great comedian. It’s far more creative and complex.

 nb.. I think Colbert and Stewart, Hicks and Carlin have done more to educate than all the “serious” news channels put together..

 and.. far more fun.

 

 

 

Viewing 10 posts - 31 through 40 (of 45 total)

Login or Register to post comments