Vanity Fair on The Lab-Leak Theory

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  • Fri, Jun 11, 2021 - 07:28am

    #11
    Sean_R

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    Reply To: Vanity Fair on The Lab-Leak Theory

Chuck Todd’s mention of the Russian vaccine might be the first time I’ve ever heard a “respectable” journalist speak well of it and it’s one of the few times I’ve heard it mentioned at all.  They very rarely acknowledge even the existence of Sputnik V or the other Russian vaccines.  Todd breaks the rule only to claim the Russian public doesn’t use it because they distrust their government.  The media and think-tankers never stops being petty little team players.

  • Fri, Jun 11, 2021 - 07:42am   (Reply to #8)

    #12
    Sean_R

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    Re: Hunting Chinese and Russian “bots”

Accusing other people of being Chinese or Russian paid “bots” (or trolls or whatever) is just a way of excluding unwanted ideas or assertions.  It’s fun and easy to do because it’s unfalsifiable.

  • Fri, Jun 11, 2021 - 07:59am

    #13
    davefairtex

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    I am guilty

jerryr-

Yes, you are entirely correct.  I spot 10 out of every 5 CCP trolls.  I admit my guilt.

With you, I was wrong.  Sorry about that.  Once I saw you commenting on a wide variety of topics, it was clear you weren’t a troll.

Meanwhile, I do have some questions.

1) Do you think CCP trolls exist?

2) If <yes> to #1:

3) Do you think they add value?

4) How can they be identified?

5) What do you think we should do when they appear?

  • Fri, Jun 11, 2021 - 08:14am   (Reply to #13)

    #14
    Sean_R

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    Dealing with a “known unknown”

Whether or not another online stranger is a paid foreign agent should be treated as a “known unknown”.  As Don Rumsfeld said:

Reports that say that something hasn’t happened are always interesting to me, because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns—the ones we don’t know we don’t know. And if one looks throughout the history of our country and other free countries, it is the latter category that tends to be the difficult ones.

Whether you, I or anyone else are paid foreign agents is a “known unknown” that we all have to learn to live with.  Why not argue the other person’s point rather than chase shadows?

  • Fri, Jun 11, 2021 - 09:44am

    #15
    jerryr

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    Spotting 10 out of every 5 trolls

Hi Dave,

Regarding your questions:

(1) Yes, I’m sure the CCP does pay for covert representation of their views. Wikipedia has an interesting article about this, entitled “State-sponsored Internet Propaganda“, with 89 references and at least as many links to other Wikipedia articles, showing that many countries all over the world are doing this. Including China and their 50 cent army.

Unfortunately, anybody who spends any time editing Wikipedia is well aware that they really have no way of detecting paid editors, or preventing them from influencing the articles.

The USA has little need to use paid Internet trolls domestically, since it’s well known that corporate and government interests have virtually 100% control of the mass media. All too many people are willing to parrot mass media crap on the Internet, even without getting paid to do so.

And, lest we forget, this very website was covertly owned and operated by GBI until recently. GBI, in turn, was owned and operated by folks with ties to Goldman Sachs, the Federal Reserve, and the US military.

(3) I personally welcome a diverse variety of viewpoints, and especially if they’re supported with factual argument.

One more of Carl’s posts seems to have disappeared this morning. It’s the one where he mentioned that he lived in China at one time. Maybe he deleted it himself, on his way out the door.

(4) How about identifying them with remarks like “Gee, Carl, you seem to have a bias in favor of CCP viewpoints. Let’s talk about that? Have you considered these other facts that call your statements into question?…” And those of us with ears to hear, will recognize that you think Carl is a troll.

(5) Even if they are getting paid 50 cents a post, they are still human beings. As such, their opinions are subject to change. Maybe someday we could turn them around, and before you know it they’ll be earning $1 a post working for the CIA?

When we get to the point when we can’t tell the difference between a human being and a robot, that’s when we’re really in trouble.

  • Fri, Jun 11, 2021 - 10:04am   (Reply to #15)

    #16
    Sean_R

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    GBI = Georgia Bureau of Investigations?

– Who is the “GBI”, the Georgia Bureau of Investigations?

– I agree with most of your other points on the topic of real and imagined paid trolls.

  • Fri, Jun 11, 2021 - 10:12am

    #17
    jerryr

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    GBI = Gold Bullion International

For more, see

The Investors

Edit: that link didn’t work as well as I was hoping. Dave’s original post that started the thread (and was censored) was mostly reposted on page 8, post #72.

  • Fri, Jun 11, 2021 - 10:17am

    #18

    Quercus bicolor

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    approach for suspected CCP trolls

(4) How about identifying them with remarks like “Gee, Carl, you seem to have a bias in favor of CCP viewpoints. Let’s talk about that? Have you considered these other facts that call your statements into question?…” And those of us with ears to hear, will recognize that you think Carl is a troll.

Thank you for that jerryr.  Last night I was reflecting on your post and my response and decided that I would do exactly that next time.  It’s more polite and treats the other person like a human and perhaps accomplishes the goal even more effectively.

  • Fri, Jun 11, 2021 - 10:33am

    #19

    Jim H

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    China does engage in multi-faceted internet PR

Whether Carl is an agent or not, we should acknowledge that China is the King of Narrative Control.  It is sad to see the Western world following in their authoritarian footsteps.

There are two Western guys who used to blog about their life in China – they had (and still do have) a unique Youtube channel where they (would) ride their motorcycles around different parts of China, talking by two-way radio as you watched their GoPro view of the ride.  It was engaging.  In any event, they both ended up marrying Chinese nationals and moved back to the US.  One of the two, who goes by the Youtube handle, “Serpentza”, talks a lot about the workings of the propaganda arm of the CCP;

  • Fri, Jun 11, 2021 - 11:10am

    #20
    Sean_R

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    This Vanity Fair article came out of permanent Washington

I may be more productive to discuss this Vanity Fair article itself.  It’s a collection of public admissions published with the assistance of a large slice of permanent Washington.  Trump is gone but permanent Washington abides.  So does the Covid pandemic.  Now we get to watch them as they craft the official narrative about it.

An optimist would say this article (and similar ones in the WaPo and WSJ) is part of some sort of Beltway glasnost.  A pessimist would say it’s part of a “limited hangout”.  There are enough people and institution implicated in this Covid mess for both to be true.

Edit:

I just saw this at the Washington Post:

The media called the ‘lab leak’ story a ‘conspiracy theory.’ Now it’s prompted corrections — and serious new reporting.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/media/the-media-called-the-lab-leak-story-a-conspiracy-theory-now-its-prompted-corrections–and-serious-new-reporting/2021/06/10/c93972e6-c7b2-11eb-a11b-6c6191ccd599_story.html

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