Tungsten Salted Gold – Investment scam of the century???

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  • Thu, Nov 19, 2009 - 01:25am

    #41
    Peak Prosperity Admin

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    Re: Tungsten Salted Gold – Investment scam of the century???

[quote=LogansRun]

Don’t know if this has been posted yet….didn’t see it.

 

Zinc Dimes, Tungsten Gold & Lost Respect….Jim Willie

http://www.24hgold.com/english/news-gold-silver-zinc-dimes-tungsten-gold–lost-respect.aspx?article=2459973994G10020&redirect=false&contributor=Jim+Willie+CB

[/quote]

C’mon, LR . . . a bit of a synopsis, please . . .

  • Thu, Nov 19, 2009 - 04:15am

    #42
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    Re: Tungsten Salted Gold – Investment scam of the century???

Here’s an article that discusses Kirby’s clain of tungsten-filled gold bars: “The Rumour About London Good Delivery Gold Bars That Are Allegedly Filled With Tungsten” , at  http://www.prisonplanet.com/the-rumor-about-london-good-delivery-gold-bars-that-are-allegedly-filled-with-tungsten.html .  It includes a letter from Adrian Ash at BullionVault.com who discusses how they test their gold.  There’s an interesting discussion about the “Good Bar Delivery Circuit” as well.  I don’t know if I’d have to same level of faith in the integrity of all members of the circuit that Ash seems too, though.

Dear Kevin,

Thank you for your email, which Paul’s asked me to answer.

As you may know, we send independent assayers into the vaults every year to check all the gold bars, and they send their report to our auditors who publish it – on their website – with the full financial audit.

To read the Assayer’s Report
http://www.albertgoodman.co.uk/bullionvault/

Last year, the assayers were 100% satisfied with every bar. They are now due to return to the vaults later this month, coinciding with our 2009 financial audit. Meanwhile, we only ever accept bars from accredited vaults and refiners, and anyone who delivered us a gold bar which later turned out to be bad would be liable for the loss.

On top of that, we guarantee every gram of BullionVault gold ourselves:
http://bullionvault.com/help/terms_and_conditions.html#Warranted%20gold%20content

With regards to the alleged tungsten fraud, such fakes could perhaps circulate outside the Good Delivery circuit. But it’s unlikely that any such metal could ever make it into accredited storage.

Accredited custodians only take in bars from other accredited vaults, and metal only enters the system from accredited refiners. Even when they bear the correct bar stamps, large gold bars are not usually accepted from people outside the Good Delivery circuit, which is why taking a Good Delivery bar into private possession seriously dents its value. Any potential buyer, lacking the accredited storage history which ensures integrity, would rather deal accredited metal from an accredited source. It’s this warranty — that delivery is good — which makes the professional wholesale market cost-efficient and liquid.

You can learn more about Good Delivery at the London Bullion Market Association (LBMA)’s website. You’ll note just how exacting the criteria for refining and assaying are:
http://www.lbma.org.uk/delivery

The Physical Committee’s detailed work on weighing scales is also worth reviewing. Because at these tolerances, the difference in density between gold and tungsten would show in a 400-ounce bar. Their very different melting points (1064°C for gold, 3422°C for tungsten) also make the alleged fakes unlikely, as do their physical states when cooled (gold is soft, tungsten brittle). Following back along the chain of integrity – the formal history of who held the bars, when, and in which approved facility – would ultimately lead to the producing refiner, and no amount of “tungsten” fakes would be worth the law suits, let alone the loss of LBMA accreditation….”

  • Thu, Nov 19, 2009 - 09:17am

    #43
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    Re: Tungsten Salted Gold – Investment scam of the century???

Sorry C1, was running short on timeEmbarassed

  • Thu, Nov 19, 2009 - 09:25am

    #44
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    Re: Tungsten Salted Gold – Investment scam of the century???

Here you go C1Wink:

 

The initial discovery was something like four gold bars, which the Hong Kong bankers drilled invasively to test the contents. Reminds me of drilling the earth and measuring how many grams of gold per tonne. The HK bankers hoped to have 99% gold yield in their drill program for the resident bars. They found something like 1% instead and 99% tungsten. By the way, tungsten sells for less than $70 per ton, which makes its swaps for gold to be 60x more profitable than silver bar swaps. Another handy usage for the Gold/Silver ratio in calculations. The hunt was on. Now not a single assayer on the planet is available, as all are tied up. They have been commissioned to test the gold bars shipped from the United States of Fraudulent Banker America in their own bullion vaults.

  • Fri, Nov 20, 2009 - 04:00pm

    #45
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    Re: Tungsten Salted Gold – Investment scam of the century???

The real question is who is spreading these stories and why.  Are they being spread to make people leery of the gold ETFs?  Is is a cover story to be used when the GLD price suppression scheme implodes?  The “tracking error” in GLD’s price may actually be a sign of stress in their derivative trading strategy.

  • Mon, Nov 23, 2009 - 12:24am

    #46
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    Re: Tungsten Salted Gold – Investment scam of the century???

Glad to see this forum is applying some scepticism to this story, unlike others where it is all “wow” and “this is the end of the world”.

These points have been made earlier but are worth repeating : Density is nothing to do with Atomic Weight. Density(Gold) = 19.30 g/cm³, density(Tungsten) = 19.25 g/cm³.  So Tungsten is .9974 the density of gold and can EASILY be detected to be not .9999 by the method of weighing in air and then water.

Density = (weight in air) / ( ( weight in air ) – ( weight in water ) )

A 400 oz bar would be light by more than an ounce, while the weighing scales would be accurate to 0.1 g at least – over 300 times better.

 

 

  • Fri, Jan 29, 2010 - 07:50pm

    #47
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    Re: Tungsten Salted Gold – Investment scam of the century???

Does anyone know if there has been any more developments on this story?

More conspiracy theory or is there something to it?

  • Fri, Jan 29, 2010 - 07:55pm

    #48
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    Re: Tungsten Salted Gold – Investment scam of the century???

I’ve been doing searches regularly and haven’t heard any new news.

  • Fri, Jan 29, 2010 - 09:12pm

    #49
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    Re: Tungsten Salted Gold – Investment scam of the century???

I saw an article in Financial Sense – I think Rob Kirby (?)- that talked more about it a week or two ago.  No real new news though.  But he thought coins were safe (too much trouble for not enough payoff).  I’ll see if I can find it again and if so will post the link here.

-pinecarr

  • Fri, Jan 29, 2010 - 09:22pm

    #50
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    Re: Tungsten Salted Gold – Investment scam of the century???

Pinecarr

that was exactly my concern.  Most of this on the website are probably not wealthy enough to own bars, but what about the bullion coins?  your comment is reassuring.

Brian

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