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Trick Question For Obama’s Economic Team

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  • Tue, Dec 02, 2008 - 08:25am

    #51

    caroline_culbert

    Status Gold Member (Offline)

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    Posts: 254

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    Re: hewittr and joe2baba

[quote=joe2baba]

thanks for the reply

i see the problems with the unions.as i said it is not a perfect solution, but what human solution is perfect.

what i would like to see is a balance between bashing and praising. the unions deserve as much credit as blame for the life of the average worker in this country. worker safety and child labor just two.

i certainly do not agree with the division of labor. i worked on big condo jobs in florida and i could not go get a sledge hammer because it was the laborers job. so i had to stand around while the laborer went to get it. that is stupid no doubt. but lets not throw the baby out with the bath water. lets add some flexibility. obviously gm and other companies cannot survive with the huge pension and health benefits they are liable for. so again flexibility is needed. i have not been in a union in 28 years. i have been self employed all that time. i see the benefits of both.i myself can do just about anything in construction, carpentr(finish and rough) plumbing wiring masonry and a host of other stuff. 

the middle class exists in large measure because of the unions IMHO 

i dont necessarily want to see us live off the little brown and yellow people of the world either. they deserve a decent wage and working conditions. but thanks to  the imf, wto gatt and nafta and the rest of the alphabet we are all being reduced to serfs.

if anyone has a solution i am all ears

[/quote]

I think the problem we have (I keep saying this- sorry) is the lack of education regarding very crucial principles.  One, would be ethics, where ethical behavior is required for any system to run sufficiently (how they were designed).  If we accept a system, then we sure as heck better start teaching our children, not of that system in particular, but of systems in general.  I guess system depend upon responsible people- people you can depend.  E.g. we depend on the pilot (not being drunk or skipping check lists), the pilot and the passengers depend upon the mechanics (not being lazy about scewing in bolts), the pilot depends upon the air traffic controller (to make sure he really is paying attention), the air traffic controller depends upon IT systems to make sure the computers will work properly and etc.  We depend upon people all the way down to the maintenance workers.  Of course they could slack off and they do, but when we (as workers cut corners and or find loopholes in the system, i.e. having others punch your time card, finding a place to hide, taking more than your share of smoke breaks) do this we are trying to cheat the system.  Systems within businesses, homes/relationships, jobs, school, and etc. all depend upon the system to be run as it was created to be run.  Of course we could all find loopholes within the system (to evade work or etc.) but eventually the system will crash (such as the money system, your marriage, your trust with someone, your job, etc.).  So I guess a system is dependent upon ethical behavior for it to run sufficiently, i.e. if you don’t want it to fail.  Marriage is a good example of a system.  If both parties follow the system (whatever you agreed upon, say, fidelity), then your system shouldn’t fail (divorce).  Of course you may not get a divorce anyway, but the probability of that system to fail is far greater than a couple who decide to follow their system of "trust".  Because of so many variables involved in a system, one sure way to compensate for the variance is to make sure that people follow the system until they have a better way of improving the system.  This, I believe, requires education.  Educating children well enough so they know when and how to question the system and/or its authority.  Of course systems should be thrown right out the window, say in a relationship where the spouse refuses to stop beating you, but if you attempt to prolong your relationship then your probability, of having children growing up in that type of environment, is high– since this person has not decided to throw out the system (of being married) then they have created a new system; one that requires abuse and so forth.  These "new systems" (or bubbles/ derivatives) should never have been created in the first place!

Above is what I think is the "solution" to all of our worldly problems.Tongue out

Regarding your last paragraph, I think we’re (U.S.) is looking at a drastically reduced standard of living, at least one that will be closer to the majority of the world.  I don’t think we’ll be reduced to a third world country, but I do believe that the demand for labor is low in comparison to the supply of jobs.  This will favor any corporation…. which means they have all the power– But if they succeed in dividing and conquering us to cause us to fight each other for work then they will have won.  We as a world must be able to come together to boycott work and products.  How this can happen, I don’t know.  But as long as "they" can reduce us to starvation, we’d be willing to work for almost nothing.  We might end up staying in the cage (labor camp) just to get food– even if the door is wide open.  We must be educated enough to resist the temptation to be hedonistic, i.e. watching t.v. , at the point we don’t know anything about living off the land ourselves.  I can understand why anyone would starve in the deserts of Africa but I cannot commit to starving in the land we inhabit which is free of natural resources.  Even as our standard of living decreases we must insist on bettering our education for ourselves and our kids.  That means turning off the t.v!

  • Tue, Dec 02, 2008 - 09:00am

    #52

    krogoth

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Aug 18 2008

    Posts: 512

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    As for labor in general

Here is what will swing it for labor-

When we get sick of calling India to troubleshoot our computers,waiting sometimes hours talking to a pre scripted trained barely English speaking customer center in Bombay, or when we purchase warranties for products just because we need to take them back 2-3 times before we get one that works. When we get sick of wasting our time doing these trivial life consuming activities, maybe we will do it at home again, in America.

You know, I have a new Motorola phone over here in Taiwan, that was made in China of course. This is my third one in 4 months. If you don’t take it back within 7 days (and don’t even try and get your money back) the store won’t give you a replacement, then you go through the factory replacement process, sometimes taking 2 weeks without having a phone.

People don’t care about quality, they care about cheap and easy. They don’t care about choices, they care about consumption. They don’t care about ramifications, they care about gratification, as quick and easy and cheap as they can get it. Regards of labor, product or service.

Until this changes, until we change and get realistic and humble, it will get nothing but worse.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  • Tue, Dec 02, 2008 - 11:56am

    #53

    Damnthematrix

    Status Diamond Member (Offline)

    Joined: Aug 09 2008

    Posts: 1132

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    Bosses vs Workers

I’ve been following this discussion re Unions with interest.  Like you, Australia has changed from a conservative anti union government, to a conservative pro union one (left wing governments are a thing of the past unless you live in Sth America!).

Our previous Prime Miniscule (and great pal of the Shrub) had this idea that because everyone in Australia (a free country!) had equal opportunity, workers could become bosses, all they had to do was grasp the initiative.

Now what conservatives like him fail to realise is that to run your own business and staff requires a certain personality.  I ran my own business for about 15 years, and whilst I loved the business, I hated running it, and never could have contemplated hiring staff.  It just wasn’t me.  Then all my best clients went bust in the last recession (here) in 1990, and within a few years I just gave up banging my head against the proverbial brick wall and folded it all up.  Retrained as a greenie! 

What I’m getting at here is that some people are destined to become bosses, and others are not. Most of the poor buggers who are not so destined moreover need all the help they can get to not get ripped off, hence the need for Unions.  Don’t get me wrong, I can see why some people hate Unions, but it’s also obvious why some people hate bosses.  If only all people respected each other, we would have no need for these stoopid class differences, but they are here, it’s a fact of life…

Move on. 

  • Sat, Nov 13, 2010 - 09:57am

    #54
    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Peak Prosperity Admin

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    Re: Trick Question For Obama’s Economic Team

 

 

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I understand that things might be different 

to see  WOW Power Leveling  85 but I think it is best 

 

to send feedback as soon as possible, and since the changes to mana regen healer should have a 

 

pretty big deal, I think it started at the time to Buy WOW Gold the 

 

discussion . And I understand that tuning stuff is the last thing you usually do, but I think the 

 

mood of the healers mana so much that it learn the purpose, a kind of 

 

 WOW Gold  before we can actually give any feedback at all 

 

needs. From what I’ve read, the mana regen for healers should in this extension, so we count that 

 

as to how much mana we have, how much mana cost of spells, and the rate we are able to spend nerfed 

 

our Mana on boss fights. Basically, your should look at  Aion Gold  as well as HPS is most ideal in the choice of the spell for the situation, and thereby 

 

raising the “skill cap” (for want of a better word) 

for some  Aion Leveling . 

  • Sat, Nov 13, 2010 - 09:57am

    #55
    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Oct 31 2017

    Posts: 1612

    count placeholder

    Re: Trick Question For Obama’s Economic Team

 

 

I understand that things might be different 
to see [url=http://www.wowpowerlevelingup.com/]WOW Power Leveling[/url] 85 but I think it is best 
to send feedback as soon as possible, and since the changes to mana regen healer should have a 
pretty big deal, I think it started at the time to [url=http://www.zyy.com/]Buy WOW Gold[/url] the 
discussion . And I understand that tuning stuff is the last thing you usually do, but I think the 
mood of the healers mana so much that it learn the purpose, a kind of 
[url=http://www.storeingame.com/]WOW Gold[/url] before we can actually give any feedback at all 
needs. From what I’ve read, the mana regen for healers should in this extension, so we count that 
as to how much mana we have, how much mana cost of spells, and the rate we are able to spend nerfed 
our Mana on boss fights. Basically, your should look at [url=http://www.gobuyaiongold.com/]Aion 
Gold[/url] as well as HPS is most ideal in the choice of the spell for the situation, and thereby 
raising the “skill cap” (for want of a better word) 
for some [url=http://www.site-link-directory.com]Aion Leveling[/url]. 

 

 

I understand that things might be different 

to see  WOW Power Leveling  85 but I think it is best 

 

to send feedback as soon as possible, and since the changes to mana regen healer should have a 

 

pretty big deal, I think it started at the time to Buy WOW Gold the 

 

discussion . And I understand that tuning stuff is the last thing you usually do, but I think the 

 

mood of the healers mana so much that it learn the purpose, a kind of 

 

 WOW Gold  before we can actually give any feedback at all 

 

needs. From what I’ve read, the mana regen for healers should in this extension, so we count that 

 

as to how much mana we have, how much mana cost of spells, and the rate we are able to spend nerfed 

 

our Mana on boss fights. Basically, your should look at  Aion Gold  as well as HPS is most ideal in the choice of the spell for the situation, and thereby 

 

raising the “skill cap” (for want of a better word) 

for some  Aion Leveling . 

  • Sat, Nov 13, 2010 - 09:58am

    #56
    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Oct 31 2017

    Posts: 1612

    count placeholder

    Re: Trick Question For Obama’s Economic Team

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