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Trick Question For Obama’s Economic Team

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  • Sun, Nov 30, 2008 - 12:20am

    #10

    Ray Hewitt

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    Re: Retirement should be fun for you

That was a real non-answer.

People who appeal to government to do something are so arrogant that they believe others should be forced to conform to their beliefs. This world has an over-abundance of petty tyrants.

  • Sun, Nov 30, 2008 - 02:44am

    #12
    Futuo

    Futuo

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    Re: Trick Question For Obama’s Economic Team

I agree with mainecooncat. A little disappointed…

  • Sun, Nov 30, 2008 - 03:50am

    #13

    joe bender

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    Re: OK here we go

sorry zo i disagree i dont think unions need to go.

i think the finacial institutions need to go. you mentioned not one word about the outrageous bonuses.

unions dont acoount for much of the work force anymore. just show me one other way working people can negotiate  decent wages and benefits without collective bargaining. care to be a worker at wal mart? didnt think so.

unions need revamping no doubt but i think we need more of them. i am tired of seeing the middle class get hammered while the fat cats get fatter. the companies got fat so the workers got fat. the companies got thin so should the unions.

i was a union carpenter and had to pay off my mortgage and support my family. i could not have done it in a non union shop.

this does not even take into consideration the access to politicians corporations have. what access does joe the carpenter have without a union. just tell me how the working guy gets a share of the pie other than unions and i will consider it.

if you are talking just about uaw i say they need to cut way back to be competitive. but it was not their decision to build huge suv’s and hummers. remember the japanese carmakers are hurting now too paying $ 30 less an hour.

i am not saying unions are perfect by any stretch they just happen to be an easy target right now but someone show me how we get a decent wage for the average blue collar worker without unions and collective bargaining.

you want to be competitive? raise the wages of the prison labor in china to two bowls of rice a day instead of one.

why do we have to come down why dont they come up? because we want cheaper nikes thats why. because we dont care about child sweatshop labor or environmental destruction as long as it happens somewhere over there.

sorry zo but i was walking picket lines when i was in grade school. unions allowed me and millions of others be middle class.

  • Sun, Nov 30, 2008 - 04:10am

    #14

    joe bender

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    Re: Trick Question For Obama’s Economic Team

america last year worked to about july 23 to pay all the taxes. it is tax independence day.

with the way they are spraying paper we will work till about thanksgiveng next year. which will give us time to go out on black friday with money that is ours and trample people to death to get a computer and printer for $299.

as for creating jobs in america it is great campaign rhetoric but we will have to start from scratch. we do not have a steel industry, we will soon not have an auto industry. we dont have a textile industry. we dont make shoes here. about 1.5% of the population is engaged in farming. once peak oil starts to be felt we can employ more people on farms, of course we wil need to raise more horses, china is cornering the market on all the strategic minerals. india and china turn out 600k engineers and scientists a year we turn out 60k.our school system is in tatters. 200 colleges have closed in the last 20 years

just what jobs is anyone talking about creating and how ? oh yeah i forgot a two year project to fix our infrastructure. so that the cars that no one is buying and the trucks not carrying the goods to stores where people are not shopping will get there without the bridges falling down.

hate to pee on obama’s parade but fugeddaboutit

  • Sun, Nov 30, 2008 - 04:30am

    #15
    Carl Veritas

    Carl Veritas

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    Re: Trick Question For Obama’s Economic Team

It’s a loaded question because neither Democrat nor Republican economic teams will execute the solution even if they knew the answer. Only you can.

Attempting to solve the riddle forces you to—-

Take a closer look at how jobs are created, and who creates jobs in the economy.

The Federal government can only "create" jobs by borrowing or taxing the people.

So if they cannot borrow or tax they cannot create jobs. To solve the riddle government will be forced to rely on the Central Bank to create new employment, by "stimulating". Hoover and FDRs New Deal and TARP are stimulants.

The central bank( not part of the federal govt) can artificially lower interest rates by buying banks inventory of government bonds. No money changes hands in this transaction because the Fed creates the "payment". The payment banks receive from the Fed serves as fresh reserves in which they could pyramid new loans to the public. To the extent that business and consumers borrow the new money, new jobs can in fact be created. But.

This practice creates the job creating booms that gets liquidated as soon as the Fed reverses course. Todays housing bust was once a boom created by Greenspan driving rates down to 1 percent . Once the flow of bank credit stops, producers such as homebuilders find themselves overextended and forced to liquidate taking jobs down with them. Risk taking on both sides created todays financial mess but originated from the Feds activities.

The other consequence of the Feds bank credit expansion is persistent inflation.

It now takes $22.10 of todays money what $1.00 bought in 1913.

But despite all of this why does the government—no matter which party—-repeat the same economic errors?

The only answer is —-

.Because the establishment is guided by the economic theories of the British economist John Maynard Keynes.

Since the 1930s the government has been calling plays after plays from Keynes playbook. Flexible money supply, debt financing to force economic activity, and above all a central bank. Bankers and congress may have pushed for the Federal Reserve Act of 1913 but it is the mvp in Keynes economic playbook.

The Austrian economists have long exposed the hidden connection between the boom bust cycles, debt and inflation with the presence of a central bank. But like James Grant have said, he learned of Austrian economics everywhere except in school.

So absent the government and its central bank, who is left to create new jobs?

Businessmen. Using their own or borrowed money from peoples savings.

Borrowing from Time Deposits to be specific. Ample supply of savings drives rates down to a sustainable level where demand and production (thus employment) can reach equilibrium without abrupt changes. Demand Deposits just needs to have legal property rights protection to avoid bank runs arising from multiple claims from a single source. It cannot be lent out by banks. Keynes labels the practice of saving money as hoarding and not to be tolerated, because it does not fit in his model.

This would mean sound money chosen by the people and backed by gold. Gold has been chosen by people for millennia to serve as money. Arguments that theres not enough gold to back our money is bs. For starters, open up Fort Knox vault and return Americans gold confiscated by FDR. It’s been there since the 1940s.

So again how can the US economy create new jobs without adding to the debt ($10.6 Trillion) or increasing taxes?

By eliminating the Central Bank from the equation.

 

 

 

 

 

 

  • Sun, Nov 30, 2008 - 05:13am

    #16

    krogoth

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Aug 18 2008

    Posts: 512

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    Re: OK here we go

[quote=joe2baba]

sorry zo i disagree i dont think unions need to go.

i think the finacial institutions need to go. you mentioned not one word about the outrageous bonuses.

[/quote]

I don’t need to. I have spent half my posts doing nothing buy attacking banks. I didn’t think I needed to post that again here. As for Unions, maybe they worked in your day, but they are outdated greed machines now.

[quote=joe2baba]

unions need revamping no doubt but i think we need more of them. i am tired of seeing the middle class get hammered while the fat cats get fatter. the companies got fat so the workers got fat. the companies got thin so should the unions.

[/quote]

You think this is because of Unions? What about the Union fat-cats getting rich?

[quote=joe2baba]

i am not saying unions are perfect by any stretch they just happen to be an easy target right now but someone show me how we get a decent wage for the average blue collar worker without unions and collective bargaining.

[/quote]

Wow, technology rose all alone, people made good money and until just the last few years, jobs didn’t go overseas. It’s the governments fault that job’s went overseas, not because they didn’t have a union. In fact, I know a lot of Blue Collar people who got into computer technology in the early 90’s, quit harder labor jobs, and made 4 times the money in technology. All of this happened ALONE without UNIONS and people made GREAT MONEY and made decisions themselves about money, financing, investing etc. Now 20 years later, all those support jobs are in India. Joe, you think a technology union could have saved that? Why was one not started then?

[quote=joe2baba]

you want to be competitive? raise the wages of the prison labor in china to two bowls of rice a day instead of one.

why do we have to come down why don’t they come up? because we want cheaper nikes thats why. because we dont care about child sweatshop labor or environmental destruction as long as it happens somewhere over there.

sorry zo but i was walking picket lines when i was in grade school. unions allowed me and millions of others be middle class.

[/quote]

So in a nutshell what your telling me is that instead of making jobs, we should preserve unions. Instead of what you consider lowering our lifestyle, we should raise the Chinese to our standard of living as well as other countries competing with us?

Wow, now I am surprised! Not that it matters much, considering we will very soon have many jobs of importance on any level and no middle class at all for the masses, the union argument is irrelevant.

Also, they are raising the standards of living in other countries, slowly. They are follow the fine example of consumption created by Americans, and will eventually be into the toilet in another 40-60 years, just like we are now. 

The game continues 

 

 

 

  • Sun, Nov 30, 2008 - 05:23am

    #17
    grl

    grl

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    Posts: 18

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    Re: Retirement should be fun for you

Hey guys, I have been reading these posts for weeks now but Krogoth’s comments prompted me to register so I could post a comment. I have been very impressed by the intelligent and civil discussion that goes on here (as compared to a lot of website postings I have read). How sad that she or he has degraded the tone on this website. I hope that should she or he do this again, she or he is banned. And btw Krogoth, I was a child in a solidly middle-class America 30 years ago (2 parents, 3 kids)  – we had two cars, one for Mom, one for Dad, three T.V.’s – one for the family, one in the parent’s bedroom, one for the kids and a 2K sq ft house. All my friends in my middle-class suburb had approximately the same. (I can’t tell you what Medical/Dental Insurance costs ’cause I was a kid). Your facts are wrong and your nostalgia is misplaced. 

  • Sun, Nov 30, 2008 - 05:24am

    #18

    Damnthematrix

    Status Diamond Member (Offline)

    Joined: Aug 09 2008

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    Re: Trick Question For Obama’s Economic Team

[quote=Cluesaw]

 

American taxpayer debt now stands at $10.6 Trillion (Fed government borrows, you pay).

 

Question for the Economic Team—–

How can the US economy create new jobs without adding to the enormous debt or raising taxes?

 

[/quote]

Cancel the debts. 

  • Sun, Nov 30, 2008 - 05:38am

    #19

    Damnthematrix

    Status Diamond Member (Offline)

    Joined: Aug 09 2008

    Posts: 1132

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    Re: Retirement should be fun for you

[quote=4liberty]

Hey guys, I have been reading these posts for weeks now but Krogoth’s comments prompted me to register so I could post a comment. I have been very impressed by the intelligent and civil discussion that goes on here (as compared to a lot of website postings I have read). How sad that she or he has degraded the tone on this website. I hope that should she or he do this again, she or he is banned. And btw Krogoth, I was a child in a solidly middle-class America 30 years ago (2 parents, 3 kids) – we had two cars, one for Mom, one for Dad, three T.V.’s – one for the family, one in the parent’s bedroom, one for the kids and a 2K sq ft house. All my friends in my middle-class suburb had approximately the same. (I can’t tell you what Medical/Dental Insurance costs ’cause I was a kid). Your facts are wrong and your nostalgia is misplaced.

[/quote]

liberty,

I don’t always agree with Krogoth….  but here I do.  Some of us have been putting up with hewittr for weeks, and today, as I catch up with this list, it’s fast becoming obvious many members of this intelligent forum are getting exasperated with him.

Krogoth is one poster whose opinions I always look forward to, for better or worse, and should be banned (which I seriously doubt, we know who should be!) then I’d be inclined to forget about this site…. 

Stick around, you might learn a few things here, some of Chris’ followers are pretty darn smart people. 

  • Sun, Nov 30, 2008 - 05:56am

    #20
    grl

    grl

    Status Member (Offline)

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    Posts: 18

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    Re: Retirement should be fun for you

thank you for the welcome Matrix (I mean that) but my comment was not directed towards Krogoth’s analysis or exasperated readers of hewittr but rather towards Krototh’s ad hominem attack on heweittr* – it simply is not becoming to this site. (and gives some insight into Krogoth’s emotions vs. her/his reason)

 

*And Hewittr,

Opinions are like assholes, everybody has one

You remind me of a saying my father told me-

Never try to teach a pig to sing, it wastes your time and annoys the pig

Enjoy your future job at McDonalds, Mr. Boomer 

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