TRANSFINANCIAL ECONOMICS, THE NEW EMERGING PARADIGM…….

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  • Sat, Dec 13, 2008 - 06:08pm

    #31

    Ray Hewitt

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    Re: TRANSFINANCIAL ECONOMICS = QUACKERY

So, you think the present pseudo-capitalist system or your brand of ( laissez-faire?) capitalism is perfect?"

"Perfect" is a poor choice words. Perfect against what? It would be more accurate to say that free societies are relatively better than command-and-control societies in the sense that they are more in harmony with the biology of self interest. There are no Utopias.

As to your idea of inflation it is flawed to a certain extent. 

I submit that your understanding of the nature of inflation is flawed.

This is true but in TFE the amount is created, and transmitted in a
measured way with little, or even zero inflation after checks have been
made on the inflation risk factor.

Ever hear of the gold standard? It forces discipline by limiting the supply to what can be mined.There is always a price at which gold can satisfy a world economy.The idea of a shortage of money is an inflationist’s shibboleth.

It would essentially be a scientific process to a certain extent, and
moreover it can be spent where necessary debt-free for a number of
social, economic, and political projects in which intelligent planning,
and relevant resources exist. In other words, the real economy.  

You’ve just described the Federal Reserve system. Practically every nation in the world has one, all trying to coordinate their money supplies. I shouldn’t have to remind you it’s falling apart. It’s falling apart because it’s modeled after the Soviet System of central planning.

Yes, you are right inflation adjustment of money in banks does occur
to a certain extent. With TFE the whole process  can be far more
comprehensive, and dynamic as never before ensuring that capital
retains most of its value in any point of time.  

Who decides? If it is to be the State, forget about it.

And yes, again there are no objective means as such which determine
what is priced correctly, or is overpriced. However, with TFE we can
get a better, and more objective picture of what is going on because
transactions would be tracked electronically, and can be compared to
see any price changes. 

After acknowledging there is no objective standard for determining a correct price,  you inject the word "objective" again. Where I come from, that’s called double-talk.

Maybe you can come up with a better idea than TFE but please not the
same old stuff which was repeated earlier on by another poster.

Go to mises.org and read the works of Mises, Hayek, Hazlitt, Rothbard and Bastiat to name a few. The site offers a course on Austrian Theory which would be a good way to start. If you continue to stay on the path of trying to design an economic system, you’ll fail like all the others before you have failed. The link I provided on why socialism failed gets at the heart of why planning fails. This is as far as I can take you. But I’m not sure I can dissuade you from thinking that you know what’s best for people than they know themselves.

  • Sat, Dec 13, 2008 - 08:21pm

    #32
    AnOregonian

    AnOregonian

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    Re: TRANSFINANCIAL ECONOMICS = QUACKERY

Hewittr:

While I admire your attempt to debate with Mr. Searle, I think you’re wasting energy.

While I’m not trying to "flame" anyone here, I think that Mr. Searle’s TFE is the biggest bunch of gobblygook I have ever seen promulgated on this site.

It is not even worth debating as it appears Mr. Searle was smoking something when he dreamed it up and appears to get somewhat hostile every time someone calls him out on parts of the TFE theory.

BTW, having been in the computer industry since the mid-1970’s, I can tell you that anyone who would depend on computers to control things without mistake is in fantasy land. You only have to look at the problems we have with government computers being hacked into today. Can you imagine the field day some one would have when they crack into the financial computers that Mr. Searle dreams of?

Sam….

 

  • Sat, Dec 13, 2008 - 09:21pm

    #33

    DrKrbyLuv

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    hewittr and others great posts!

This has been a really interesting thread, and thanks hewittr for the link to Why Socialism Failed – it’s good to re-read the tenets of true capitalism now more than ever. I thoroughly agree with your assertion that what we are practicing is in fact a form of "pseudo-capitalism."

[quote=hewittr]Go to mises.org and read the works of Mises, Hayek, Hazlitt, Rothbard and Bastiat to name a few.[/quote]
I am not an expert, or even close on Austrian economics but I know enough to prefer it over the Keynesians who seem to have a monoploy on our national policies.
Still, there is something that troubles me about the Austrian school that can be reduced to a quote (source):
[quote=Friedrich A.  Hayek]As a result I am more convinced than ever that if we ever again are going to have a decent money, it will not come from government: it will be issued by private enterprise, because providing the public with good money which it can trust and use can not only be an extremely profitable business; it imposes on the issuer a discipline to which the government has never been and cannot be subject.[/quote]

Note: I added the bold text for clarity

My question here is why should anyone profit in the creation and circulation of a currency? Let me go back to a quote I mentioned earlier:

[quote=Michael Rowbotham, "The Grip of Death: A study of modern money, debt slavery and destructive economics" ]The decision of governments throughout the world -- following the British model -- not to monetize their country's wealth themselves, but to force private citizens into debt if they want to exchange goods and services with each other, needs to be re-examined.[/quote]

I strongly object to any private centralized bank including our own parasitic Federal Reserve who charges us interest while contributing nothing in return. To a lesser degree, I think it is also unfair for a group of smaller private banks, as I think Hayek, Ron Paul and others would suggest, to profit in the creation of a currency. While I would prefer this alternative to a central bank scheme, I still think we fall short of the greater goal – a nation may issue it’s own currency totally free of charge (by free I mean no interest applied).

[quote=Mike Montagne, Mathmatically Perfected Economy]
  1. To solve inflation and deflation, we must maintain a circulation which
    is always equal to the remaining value of represented wealth. Thus with
    the original principal being loaned into circulation, the only solution
    to inflation and deflation is to pay off a resultant monetary
    obligation equal to the original principal, at the rate of depreciation
    or consumption.

    If our debts to each other are subject to exploitation by extrinsic,
    intervening parties, we cannot maintain a circulation which is always
    equal to the remaining value of represented wealth, because the
    exploitation itself requires us to pay more than the original value of
    the property out of circulation.

  2. Because a monetary system only has the potential powers to manipulate
    the cost or value of money or property through inflation, deflation,
    and/or multiplication of debt by interest, systemic manipulation of the
    cost or value of money or property therefore is solved only by
    integration of solutions for inflation and deflation, and
    multiplication of debt by interest.

  3. Multiplication of debt by interest is solved only by eradicating interest.

[/quote]

I would greatly appreciate hewittr and the other fine contributors to this thread to stop by Mike Montagne’s site – People for Mathematically Perfected Economy™ – to have a look and share some comments. Your insights would be most helpful as I think this is the best solution/alternative I’ve seen.

I suggest the following pages:

SYNOPSIS MATHEMATICALLY PERFECTED ECONOMY™ REDUCED TO ITS BAREST THREAD

OVERALL SUMMARY – SOLUTION, PURPORTED MONETARY REFORM, OR INHERENT FAILURE BY INTEREST?

IF I WERE PRESIDENT…HOW TO ARREST WORLD WIDE MONETARY COLLAPSE IN A DAY

and finally…

FORUMS – DISCUSSION

  • Sat, Dec 13, 2008 - 10:41pm

    #34

    Ray Hewitt

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    Re: TRANSFINANCIAL ECONOMICS = QUACKERY

Sam

I think you’re wasting energy. 

Notice my last paragrah above. I suspected as much. He gave me an opening to explain economics, and I took it.

I don’t know anything about Searle personally, so this is a guess: His highly abstract and detailed writing suggests he has a PhD in philosophy or economics. Collectivist ideologies have rightfully earned bad reputations, so he trying to put a new face on it. Most likely, he’s a Marxist. There are plenty of them floating around in academia.

  • Sat, Dec 13, 2008 - 11:01pm

    #35

    Damnthematrix

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    Re: TRANSFINANCIAL ECONOMICS, THE NEW EMERGING …

[quote=Searle88]

 

No one can be sure of the future. We have to be open-minded.Obviously, there are many problems in the world which require thought,and planning.However, in the present system money is king,and it can buy you some food!![/quote]

We buy very little food….  and therefore require very little money.

If I could convince my wife to stop working and dump her car we could live off for one year:

Council taxes $700

Internet $600

Cell phone (optional extra really): $500

And that’s about it….  under $2000 a year.

So much money is WASTED participating in the Matrix….. 

  • Sun, Dec 14, 2008 - 12:09am

    #36

    Ray Hewitt

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    Re: hewittr and others great posts!

My question here is why should anyone profit in the creation and circulation of a currency?

It goes back to incentives. A profit seeking enterprise is dependent on the trust of its customers. If word gets out that it’s cheating, customers would withdraw their business fairly quick and the managers would be liable for criminal penalties. There are many cases in business history to support that assertion.

Secondly, the profit incentive creates competition, a decentralized banking system. This is especially important because if one bank fails, losses are limited to savers and investors. In a free competitive society, monopolies are practically impossible. As soon as their profits get too high, they draw competitors who undersell them.

What about inflation? If a bank issues too much money (not backed by gold), it dilutes the purchasing power of its money. Once consumers see their purchasing power erode, they would switch to another private currency. It is true that such scams can go on for a long time before they are detected. At least the losses would be limited to customers.

While I would prefer this alternative to a central bank scheme, I still
think we fall short of the greater goal – a nation may issue it’s own
currency totally free of charge (by free I mean no interest applied).

Then there would be no incentive, political or private. Early Christians were against usury, but they couldn’t stamp it out. Lenders found ways to collect interest without appearing to collect interest, and Jews were willing lenders. At the heart of the problem is that the supply of real money (gold & silver) has to be bought and paid for. Interest makes it possible.

Inerest rates have a time value in a market society. It is through interest rates that producers bid for the savings of consumers. Higher interest rates reward consumers for saving. Additionally, consumer savings are invested in production, lowering the prices of future goods. This is why the money supply need not expand beyond what can be mined.

To solve inflation and deflation, we must maintain a circulation which
is always equal to the remaining value of represented wealth. 

Value is subjective; it cannot be calculated. Because production causes price deflation, Mr. Montagne’s solution would require just enough monetary inflation to offset the price deflation caused by production. That’s about what central bankers have been doing for almost a hundred years. 

There is only one means to a better market economy, namely to separate State from commerce and banking in the same way State is separated from Church. Then and only then can the power of the State be restrained to its assignment of protecting person, property and liberty. As of now, the State is the worst perpetrator of crimes against person, property and liberty. A free market society would still be messy, but at least it wouldn’t be sucked dry by a criminal government.

I’ll take a look at the links.

  • Sun, Dec 14, 2008 - 12:28am

    #37
    AnOregonian

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    Re: TRANSFINANCIAL ECONOMICS = QUACKERY

[quote=hewittr]

Sam

I think you’re wasting energy. 

Notice my last paragrah above. I suspected as much. He gave me an opening to explain economics, and I took it.

I don’t know anything about Searle personally, so this is a guess: His highly abstract and detailed writing suggests he has a PhD in philosophy or economics. Collectivist ideologies have rightfully earned bad reputations, so he trying to put a new face on it. Most likely, he’s a Marxist. There are plenty of them floating around in academia.

[/quote]

 

hewittr,

Judging by what he’s written, and the incoherent fashion in which he’s written it, I wouldn’t be surprised if you’re right.

Unfortunately, it would seem that too many people "out there" have extremely abstract perspectives on what is wrong and what should be done. For example, Mike Montagne’s site – People for Mathematically Perfected Economy™ is filled with a long meandering dissertion of the problem on a web site that is confusing to read at best. Then I tried to read DrKrbyLuv’s link to IF I WERE PRESIDENT…HOW TO ARREST WORLD WIDE MONETARY COLLAPSE IN A DAY.

It took Mr. Montagne 3/4 of a very long web page of "blah, blah, blah" before he finally got around to saying what he would actually do – which was basically to say we need to repudiate all current debt and start over. Oh, please!

What I liked about the Crash Course what that Chris got right to the issues at hand and explained them in a very coherent, easy to understand, fashion. I think that’s part of what has made the CC appealing to so many around the world.

Folks like Mr. Searle and Mr. Montagne will never win many adherents (even if their ideas are valid) because very few people can even understand what they’re talking about!

Sam….

  • Sun, Dec 14, 2008 - 12:44am

    #38
    AnOregonian

    AnOregonian

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    Re: TRANSFINANCIAL ECONOMICS, THE NEW EMERGING …

[quote=Damnthematrix][quote=Searle88]

 

No one can be sure of the future. We have to be open-minded.Obviously, there are many problems in the world which require thought,and planning.However, in the present system money is king,and it can buy you some food!![/quote]

We buy very little food….  and therefore require very little money.

If I could convince my wife to stop working and dump her car we could live off for one year:

Council taxes $700

Internet $600

Cell phone (optional extra really): $500

And that’s about it….  under $2000 a year.

So much money is WASTED participating in the Matrix….. 

[/quote]

 

Matrix,

In a way I’m jealous of your very light financial requirements. I am curious, though, about your food and utility requirements.

Are you able to grow all that you need? If so, what do you use to keep the crops going year after year – fertilizer, seeds, pest control, etc.? Do you have farm animals for milk and meat? If so, what is the cost to feed them annually?

What about electricity? Are you completely self-sufficient with your solar panels? Are you able to fix things by yourself if things break down? (Not being facetious here – I’m serious. I know there’s a lot I cannot do!)

What about entertainment products? E.g. radio and/or television, etc.

Do you have an income that allows you to live primarily off the Matrix yet able to purchase items when you need and/or want them?

As the old saying goes, "Enquiring minds want to know!"
Wink

I must confess that I would be unable to be as self-sufficient as you as I’ve been a "city-slicker" all my life.

Sam….

  • Sun, Dec 14, 2008 - 01:08am

    #39

    Ray Hewitt

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    Re: TRANSFINANCIAL ECONOMICS = QUACKERY

Sam

I got the same impression about Montagne. It appears that our collapsing economy is stimulating a crucible of bad ideas. It’s hard enough to figure out where this Depression is going. Once a Pyramid Scheme starts to collapse, there is no stopping it.

  • Sun, Dec 14, 2008 - 01:35am

    #40
    AnOregonian

    AnOregonian

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    Re: TRANSFINANCIAL ECONOMICS = QUACKERY

[quote=hewittr]

Sam

I got the same impression about Montagne. It appears that our collapsing economy is stimulating a crucible of bad ideas. It’s hard enough to figure out where this Depression is going. Once a Pyramid Scheme starts to collapse, there is no stopping it.

[/quote]

Hewittr,

Re Montagne – thanks for your comment. I was beginning to wonder if I was the only who thought that way!

Re the Pyramid Scheme collapse – this whole thing has really set me adrift. I used to think that I had a pretty good understanding of how things were going to go based on how they’ve gone. I’ve also studied quite a bit of history, so felt that there was some semblance of sanity in the world in the long term. However, I’ve never seen nor read of the financial disruption we are seeing today. It seems like I’m in Alice in Wonderland and I’ve fallen through the looking glass. Nothing makes sense anymore!

As I mentioned in an earlier post, I’m jealous of "Matrix’s" ability to disconnect and become self-sufficient. Not being able to see a logical path forward is quite disconcerting for me. As an engineer, I’m used to dealing with things logically. Now, it would seem, there is no logic out there!

Seems that all I can do is hunker down and try to maintain my own little corner of the world and wait and see what happens! Surprised

 
Sam….

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