TRANSFINANCIAL ECONOMICS, THE NEW EMERGING PARADIGM…….

Login or register to post comments Last Post 10828 reads   49 posts
Viewing 10 posts - 11 through 20 (of 49 total)
  • Thu, Dec 11, 2008 - 05:42am

    #11

    caroline_culbert

    Status Gold Member (Offline)

    Joined: Oct 02 2008

    Posts: 254

    count placeholder0

    Re: TRANSFINANCIAL ECONOMICS, THE NEW EMERGING …

[quote=Searle88]

 

Dear Caroline Culbert,

                          The answer to your first question is simple.

 1) Like banks it creates new money not as loans but as grants(ie. non-repayable)out of thin air. Such transmissions of capital  along with the rest of the money is tracked electronically. This would be the job of banks which incidently would not only be able to create interest free loans but non-repayable money under certain conditions.  [/quote]

grants from whom?

[quote=Searle88]

 2) Why I have been slowly but surely developing TFE is hard to explain other than a desire to see the end of this ludicrous debt-based financial system. More importantly, it would have profound implications for global justice.  [/quote]

could you expand on your idea of "global justice"?

[quote=Searle88] 

 Also, all systems are corruptible but we do need to be positive and make sure  that safeguards are put in place. It is too easy to become over-negative about such subject as this.  [/quote] 

I’m not overly-negative, but I am profoundly skeptical!  With weeks like these, that is, financial chaos, I tend to be more leery of anything that would "cross my path".  Fool me once, shame on you; Fool me twice, shame on me.  I try to live by this motto.

[/quote]

  • Thu, Dec 11, 2008 - 05:50am

    #12

    Damnthematrix

    Status Diamond Member (Offline)

    Joined: Aug 09 2008

    Posts: 1132

    count placeholder0

    Re: TRANSFINANCIAL ECONOMICS, THE NEW EMERGING …

Sounds like my "everything for free" concept in the What if? thread……  only much more complicated!

Besides, what makes you think we will have the controlling computers you advocate in 20 or 30 years time when the grid goes down?  Like someone else said, go back and re-do the CC….  There’s much more to our problems than money…. like hockey sticks everywhere, Peak Oil, Environmental collapse…..

Money’s the least of our problems.  I need food. 

  • Thu, Dec 11, 2008 - 05:56am

    #13

    caroline_culbert

    Status Gold Member (Offline)

    Joined: Oct 02 2008

    Posts: 254

    count placeholder0

    Re: TRANSFINANCIAL ECONOMICS, THE NEW EMERGING …

I (think) I’ll better appreciate your idea more if you can explain it in more detail.  It’s not the amount of writing you provide, but how you describe your plan, say in a paragraph, that can give me an overall central concept of your theory.  Anticipate objections!

  • Thu, Dec 11, 2008 - 12:24pm

    #14
    Searle88

    Searle88

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Dec 07 2008

    Posts: 18

    count placeholder0

    Re: TRANSFINANCIAL ECONOMICS, THE NEW EMERGING …

 

ReubenBailey,

                    What you said is quite a common comment.But we have to remember that computers already run the monetary show.In TFE they could be re-programmed, and/or be replaced by more advanced models to deal with any degree of possible serious inflation.

It must be understood here that we are not discussing a centralised command economy of the old Soviet Union. On the contrary we are dealing with capitalism. The direct electronic inflation controls if necessary are used to SUPPORT the economic system rather than control it.

 Yes,it is good to encourage education on basic mainstream economics,and this website is doing a good job. At the same time there is an urgent need for a global paradigmshift.The bottoms up approach is alright to a point but it will not be able to deal with the really important, and  big issues of the day. For that a top down approach is the best way irrespective of what think of politicians,and their ilke.

 R.Searle

  • Thu, Dec 11, 2008 - 12:40pm

    #15
    Searle88

    Searle88

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Dec 07 2008

    Posts: 18

    count placeholder0

    Re: TRANSFINANCIAL ECONOMICS, THE NEW EMERGING …

 

Dear Hamish, and Co,

                   This is not really a solution as such, and certainly nothing new.The Bust will certainly have some benefits in trying to tighten up the financial system But what a way to do it…if you  can call it that!??? Moreover, your "solution" will not solve many of the problems of the world,and would probably retain the debt based monetary system of taxation, and interest.

 It is also important to understand that economists do not necessarily fully understand the intricacies of  their subject. The same could be even said with those managers involved in the Credit Default Swap farce!! Quite a few of them did  not really fully comprehend what they were doing…or so it would transpire.

For myself  it is not important whether I know everything about the minutiae of economics.What matters first are the basics, and using them to develop the concept of TFE more,and more fully. However, some point in the not too distrant future a professional website will emerge,and will have in part commissioned, and uncommissioned papers on the more detailed,and  technical aspects of this subjects.This would notably involve econometric modelling.

 

R.Searle

  • Thu, Dec 11, 2008 - 12:55pm

    #16
    Searle88

    Searle88

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Dec 07 2008

    Posts: 18

    count placeholder0

    Re: TRANSFINANCIAL ECONOMICS, THE NEW EMERGING …

 

No one can be sure of the future. We have to  be open-minded.Obviously, there are many problems in the world which require thought,and planning.However, in the present system money is king,and it can buy you some food!!

 Ofcourse, in a natural economy everything is free.You would probably find the Venus Project of Jacque Fresco of great interest.He believes in a Resource Based Economy.But before we can get there we need to reform the present capitalist system. TFE holds the key to that evolutionary transition.

                                        http://www.thevenusproject.com/

 Robert Searle.

  • Thu, Dec 11, 2008 - 03:32pm

    #18
    Searle88

    Searle88

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Dec 07 2008

    Posts: 18

    count placeholder0

    Re: TRANSFINANCIAL ECONOMICS, THE NEW EMERGING …

 

Dear Caroline Culbert,

 On second thoughts, I feel that TFE has been "simply" explained in the first paragraph or so of the TFE entry. So, you might like to re-read it if you want.

R.Searle.

  • Thu, Dec 11, 2008 - 07:44pm

    #20

    Reuben Bailey

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Mar 17 2008

    Posts: 61

    count placeholder0

    Re: TRANSFINANCIAL ECONOMICS, THE NEW EMERGING …

Robert,

I know that computers are primarily used for monetary transactions – I do use online banking on occasion.  That is not my argument.  My argument is with using them to automatically regulate things.  I believe that there was a mini market melt down in February of 2007 because of computers that were trading automatically and something went wrong.  I don’t know how you come to the conclusion that the inflation controls are supporting the economy as opposed to control it.  The way you have described the process, it sounds to me like prices are limited by the inflation-limiting software.  If that is not price fixing or centralized control, then I don’t know what it is.

As for a paradigm shift, yes, we need one.  Rather than a top-down one imposed on us that adds to centralized power, how about one where education brings about the paradigm shift? It can be changed, one person at a time. Can it happen quickly enough to "save" us? I don’t know.  A better question in my mind is "should we be trying to "save" our current system?"  As hard as life will be if it happens, we may be better off as a whole if the system does go down.

Below I have quoted the paragraph that I believe you were referring to in your response to Caroline.  I have added emphasis to some points that I have questions about or wish to comment on. Bold face type is yours, italics are mine.

[quote]

This is a brief "non-technical" introduction to a "new" futuristic
monetary reform. It is called Transfinancial Economics or TFE,
sometimes called Non-Taxation Monetary Reform.

It revolves around the concept that apart from earned money
new non-repayable (ie.unearned) capital
(please define) can be responsibly created, (who decides what is responsible creation?) and
transmitted (ie money is electronic in the main, and is sent
electronically from one account to another) without taxation for
democratic governments,and indeed, to a large extent fundraising by
NGOs in many cases. This is a "revolution" in our understanding of
money and the world. In the right hands (whose hands are the right ones? Who decides that?), this concept could be one of
the greatest breakthroughs of the 21st century and beyond.

However,there is arguably more than enough earned money (please define) to
change the world. Ofcourse, it would be highly ethical for it to be
more fairly distributed, or rather redistributed as understood in a
genuine socialist system. Yet, most of us realize this is unlikely to
occur in the immediate future..if at all.

As such TFE recognizes this, and believes that the best way
forward is the responsible creation, and tranmission to governments,
and NGOs of new non-repayable money circulated along with its earned
counterpart. It is realized that greater financial empowerment lies
with LEGAL ACCESS to it (define) when, and wherever there is a true need for it. (Need for what? who decides if the need for it is a "true" one?)
The only other limits to success in such matters is effective planning,
and relevant resources.
(????)

In normal circumstances, the creation, and transmission of new
non-repayable money in a measured way could lead in time to
hyperinflation. Yet, this is unlikely in the light of "new"
understanding which will be explained in the next sction of the p2p
foundation entry. All the same though advanced computer technology and
programming
(Who pays for the computers? Who programs them? who decides how the programs should work? who decides when the market prices are becoming too inflated?) could be developed, and then used to deal with this
instantly, effectively, and directly (explained later on).

[/quote]

I look forward to your response.

All the best,

 

 

  • Thu, Dec 11, 2008 - 07:55pm

    #19

    DrKrbyLuv

    Status Gold Member (Offline)

    Joined: Aug 10 2008

    Posts: 354

    count placeholder0

    Re: Replace TFE with MPE and you have a winner

I enjoyed reading about Transfinancial Economics and I think that it is vitally important that we replace our current monetary system as it is flawed beyond reform. However, while I agree with part of TFE I found several aspects that I take exception to and hope some discussion will help us find more common ground.

First, I wholeheartedly agree that money should be free; or more exactly, free from any interest. Chris Martensen brings up the fact that since interest is applied to all newly created money; that debt must always exceed the amount of currency. Chris terms this as the exponential growth of debt/interest that inherently will cause a burden to the circulation of currency, and eventual failure. This is the key problem today, we have hit a point where there are not enough willing and worthy borrowers to increase the money supply adequately to offset the periodic payments of interest in servicing our past debt.

Michael Rowbotham hits this point squarely in "The Grip of Death: A study of modern money, debt slavery and destructive economics" when he states that "The decision of governments throughout the world — following the British model — not to monetize their country’s wealth themselves, but to force private citizens into debt if they want to exchange goods and services with each other, needs to be re-examined."

Of course, Michael is talking about the parasitic private central banking system that originated in Great Britain over several hundred years ago. This is the very system that according to Benjamin Franklin; caused the American Revolution: 

"Having usurped British Parliament, "the Bank of England" required the American colonists to adopt a currency subject to as much as 30 percent annual interest. As interest is the rate at which debt is multiplied, the greater the rate of interest, the faster the dispossession by artificially multiplied indebtedness."

Franklin later explained the substantial effects and principal cause of the American Revolution to a friend in France "We would have gladly borne the little tax on tea and other matters, had it not been that they took from us our money, which created great unemployment and dissatisfaction. Within a year, the poor houses were filled. The hungry and homeless walked the streets everywhere."

Your system seems to be selective in who receives interest free money. I contend that all interest should be eliminated as it is tyranny for any system to subject the people to the usury that terminally damages any monetary system and only profits private banks. Our current system has a finite lifespan, and I think we are close to the end. This is unfair to the people as we see our government and the private Federal Reserve Bank attempting to artificially extend the lifespan by injecting money, not borrowed by private entities, into the system through bailouts, nationalization and other "unprecedented" means.

I think the key question is can a free monetary system (free from interest) be devised to protect the value of the currency by eliminating the harmful effects of inflation and deflation? If we are able to solve this riddle and implement such a system, it would be the greatest boom to freedom and prosperity in our countries celebrated history. Your system seems to address this by price feedback and manipulation. It would be better to devise a system that inherently balances the amount of circulation with the consumption and depreciation of goods and services.

I suggest that such a system has been developed, the Mathematically Perfected EconomyTM (MPE). It would be well worth your while to visit the website to review how the system works. There may be great potential in implementing the MPE as part of your overall plan.

 

  • Fri, Dec 12, 2008 - 12:50pm

    #17
    Searle88

    Searle88

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Dec 07 2008

    Posts: 18

    count placeholder0

    Re: TRANSFINANCIAL ECONOMICS, THE NEW EMERGING …

 

Dear Caroline Culbert,

               The grants could come from a government agency,via decision-making trusts for various NGOs,and indeed banks.

As for a global justice it would means NGOs such as Amnesty International, and Greenpeace would bebetter financed (with little,or no fundraising than before). NGOs concerned with grassroots work in Developing World would be better financed. In other words,TFE could empower,and enhance democracy in so many ways!

 If you look at the end of p2pfounation entry on TFE you will see a list in which global justice  would benefit. No doubt more data could be added.

 I will sum up the basic mechanics of TFE very shortly in a paragraph as I am  suddenly pressed for time.

R.Searle.

 

 

Viewing 10 posts - 11 through 20 (of 49 total)

Login or Register to post comments