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Timeline/Stages for Collapse of our Way of Life

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  • Sun, Oct 02, 2011 - 10:16am

    #1312

    Aaron M

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Oct 22 2008

    Posts: 790

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    While we’re at it…

We should also consider having virgins post about sex.

Or Generator mechanics post about surgery. 

XRM, the fallacy here is that you presume you know something about the subject. 
You argue principle, present opinions and beliefs, antagonize those who do not conform to your opinion of "right", and worst of all, you leave no margin for any sort of meaningful discourse. 

In place of this, you bombard people with a never ending torrent of opinion pieces that are meant to argue your emotional beliefs for you. When/if that fails, you default to antagonistic hyperbole that again, is presented from a perspective of "I’m right, and you’re brainwashed".

If this is not your intent or purpose, you’ve misrepresented yourself here – at least from my vantage.

No more than a surgeon would like to be lectured on how to perform a surgery by a mechanic, I, as a veteran and having seen war, don’t really want to hear your opinion on it. Nor do I want to be needled by your snide remarks, or read the "beliefs" you identify with. 
If you think you’re helping, you’re fundementally incorrect. Not only are you NOT helping, you’re making things worse in several ways:

1. You’re putting down people who are doing good.
2. You’re putting down members of an organization; an act patently inconsistent with your ideals of socialism and more akin to racism than any sort of egalitarianism.
3. You’re inexperienced in what you’re trying to portray – and yes, so is Henry Rollins – and through this, you’re misrepresenting events and passing the interpreted results off as "fact". This is, again, patently dishonest.
4. Your propaganda is lacking factual backing, which means what you’re essentially doing is spreading rumors of which you have little or no frame of reference.
5. You’re attempting to villify others in an attempt to garner attention – the worst of all, IMHO.

Most, if not all of the other users here conform to a pretty simple rule:
If they do not know about something first hand, they simply remain silent on the subject, at least until they have some measure of experience with it.

You should strongly consider doing the same, and if any of the other vets here even bother reading this thread anymore, I’d love to hear them chime in as well. That way, we can be "fair" with regards to how your presentation is coming off.

Cheers,

Aaron

  • Sun, Oct 02, 2011 - 12:09pm

    #1313

    xraymike79

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Aug 25 2008

    Posts: 804

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    Don’t Question the System – They have too much invested in it

[quote=jumblies]

[quote=xraymike79]

I understand the things I post about are disturbing to some who don’t want to have the veil of comforting and reassuring propaganda pulled back, but isn’t this avoiding reality and living a lie?

[/quote]

I think everyone on this board is seeking the truth because we’ve realised the official story is bollocks. Much of what you post is disturbing but that’s the point – the truth hurts. If we want the truth then we must be prepared for it to be unpleasant (otherwise why would it be hidden?).

I appreciate your, and everyone else’s, posts. I’m learning a lot, thinking more and my view of what’s important in life is changing from being monetary/technology-driven to being more socially/family driven.

So this site is succeeding.

[/quote]

Speaking as a former vet myself(USAF), I’ve come to realize and see to the best of my ability what compromises the long, dark shadows of our current system, as have others who have experienced it firsthand such as former CIA officers, former U.S. Army Colonels and chief of staff officers, former U.S. war vets, former U.S. military analysts, former U.S. intelligence chief speaking at the Aspen security Forum this past July, or a former U.S. Colonel and historian. Perhaps we are all delusional or maybe we all are actually doing something that will soon be outlawed – critical thinking and seeking ‘non-propagandized’ truth.

Of course the track record and list of persecuted individuals for those that question Empire is neither good nor short. Harassment, political marginalization, and assassination are a few tools often employed. After all, whose side are they on anyway? 

 

Re: Gandhi and MLK

Both were WELL-GROUNDED men, practical men with a goal and a method for getting there. Dreamers maybe, but not idealists.

And both were assassinated, as with so many others who try to rise above the fray.

– Dave Cohen

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMUiwTubYu0

 But getting back on track, we need to be guided by the following rule:

As far as war goes, feel free to speak on it if your comments are Chris Martenson-esque. For example, Chris himself has speculated whether, as a matter of energy policy, our strategy of military control of the Middle Eastern oil fields is a viable strategy, given the difficulty of guarding the pipes and tanker routes coupled with the ease of mining or blocking the Straight of Hormuz, etc.

  • Sun, Oct 02, 2011 - 12:51pm

    #1314

    Aaron M

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Oct 22 2008

    Posts: 790

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    XRM

As far as war goes, feel free to speak on it if your comments are Chris Martenson-esque. For example, Chris himself has speculated whether, as a matter of energy policy, our strategy of military control of the Middle Eastern oil fields is a viable strategy, given the difficulty of guarding the pipes and tanker routes coupled with the ease of mining or blocking the Straight of Hormuz, etc.

Then do that.
Don’t try to villify servicemembers are compliant, robots who do their masters bidding – which you’ve implied several times, in posts which may or may not have been removed.

You’ve never once made a comment with regards to the actual strategy, or questioned it’s viability in a constructive manner.
Dancing around the issues isn’t going to vidicate you of the responsibility to address the material you post. If you care to discuss policy, what per se, is your proposed solution?

[quote]Speaking as a former vet myself(USAF), I’ve come to realize and see to the best of my ability what compromises the long, dark shadows of our current system, as have others who have experienced it firsthand such as former CIA officers, former U.S. Army Colonels and chief of staff officers, former U.S. war vets, former U.S. military analysts, former U.S. intelligence chief speaking at the Aspen security Forum this past July, or a former U.S. Colonel and historian. Perhaps we are all delusional or maybe we all are actually doing something that will soon be outlawed – critical thinking and seeking ‘non-propagandized’ truth.[/quote]

Let’s hear your first hand experiences.
Since you’re a vet. When did you serve, by the way? 

Highlight the critical thinking, analysis based on facts, and most importantly, why don’t you present a solution, rather than just articles filled with complaints?

You well know that to pour over your hand-selected list of malcontents is tantamount to deus ex machina – as no one can argue that these people have yes, indeed said the things you’d have liked them to. Further, your links are not to the actual dialog, they’re to articles discussing the dialog. Articles that lack journalistic integrity – just like the MSM – by providing media with an obvious bias.

So, you’ve got 8 examples amongst literally millions of servicemembers who already know there are problems with the system, but continue to work towards productivity and meaningful change from inside the system.

How then, are these posts constructive?
Do you maintain some first hand knowledge that you’re not making us privvy to?
Can you give us first hand accounts, rather than selecting quotes from others?

Your outside commentary, as you can see, is not only not fixing the problem, but it’s making it worse by further demonizing the efforts of those who still care to try to influence change from within.

Cheers,

Aaron

  • Sun, Oct 02, 2011 - 01:38pm

    #1315

    xraymike79

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

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     Alpha,     I was under

 Alpha,

     I was under the impression that you are a Ron Paul supporter. Ron Paul has stated that we should cut the military budget by 75%. I heard that on NPR a month or two ago. Something along those lines of cutting a military budget that is starving its own citizens would seem to be a good place to start. No?

As far as any discussion of my personal life, you can PM me. I’ll have more time later this week to talk one-on-one with you.

Best,

XRM

  • Sun, Oct 02, 2011 - 01:53pm

    #1316

    RNcarl

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: May 13 2008

    Posts: 179

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    Time to go a different direction

 

[quote=Alpha Mike]

…XRM, the fallacy here is that you presume you know something about the subject. 
You argue principle, present opinions and beliefs, antagonize those who do not conform to your opinion of "right", and worst of all, you leave no margin for any sort of meaningful discourse. 

In place of this, you bombard people with a never ending torrent of opinion pieces that are meant to argue your emotional beliefs for you. When/if that fails, you default to antagonistic hyperbole that again, is presented from a perspective of "I’m right, and you’re brainwashed".

If this is not your intent or purpose, you’ve misrepresented yourself here – at least from my vantage…

Cheers,

Aaron

[/quote]

[quote=xraymike79]

Why do I post about WAR:

War for finite resources(i.e. oil and gas) as well as for cheap human labor pools and markets for corporations of ‘developed countries’ would seem to fall into the three E’s, would it not?…

…I understand the things I post about are disturbing to some who don’t want to have the veil of comforting and reassuring propaganda pulled back, but isn’t this avoiding reality and living a lie?

[/quote]

Well,

I was going to let this go… but, alas, here I go.

XRM – AM is correct by saying that most if not all of your posts are mono-focal point of view.

AM – Thank you for providing some balance to the frey.

Now, most of us are here (in this site) because we feel that there is "something wrong."

I am a child of the "Nam" era. I listened to vets at the local American Legion hall talk of glory past (WWI and WWII era) while they eschewed the vets from Viet-Nam and Korea. Both vets from the latter two wars were not allowed "membership" (later resolved) because the wars they fought in were "police actions" and not official "declarations of war." Now, here I was, at a tender age but still able to tell the difference between "war" and not. The nighttime news was full of pictures of the Johnson bombings and troops engaged…. etc. That left me wondering how these mens sacrifice was any less worthy than the sacrifice "the old guys" made a generation earlier.

Fortunately for me, Nixon ended the war before I was of draft age and I actually I fit in that small time-window of young men that didn’t even have to register for the draft. But I grew up living in one of the zip codes that Larry Flint sent his nefarious mass mailing to during his battle of "what is pornographic." (Google it to understand) – What that pamphlet did for me was to again, raise the feeling that there was "something wrong" a disconnect between what the government was saying and what "the rest of the population" knew.

My point is, there is a generation of us who are in our late forties – early fifties who were children during that time. We were getting mixed messages from TPTB and the young vets returning from war who were torn to shreds (literally and mentally). We saw with our eyes the devastation war caused to our returning soldiers and the people of the lands that were invaded. Our soldiers were returning from doing a dirty job and being disrespected by both their fellow citizens and the government who sent them there. Something felt "wrong."

The problem was, no one from TPTB side could give us a good reason "why" we were in Viet-Nam.So taking care of the returning soldiers became politically "unpopular" so the war and its vets were swept under the rug.

Now –

Here is the paradox. I think George Carlin should go down as one of the great philosophers of the twentieth century. He made us think. From the "seven words that can never be said on television" to his later darker thoughts after his wife died from cancer.

We fight wars. I used to say, "Why are we the world’s police department?" I believe it isn’t that simple. TPTB raise just enough morality issues in whatever theater they want to invade to the point that the populace has no other choice but to condone the action or risk being seen as "unpatriotic or barbaric or not christian." And, if we don’t support our soldiers, we (the people) risk returning to acting like the public during the end of the "Nam" era.

I believe there is a "military-industrial complex." I believe it only serves to make those who own it richer. I have seen "military welfare" first hand where young folks that needed a job joined the service and drag their child brides and offspring around the country being transferred from base to base being given "housing allowances" – buying goods "on base" and pumping money into local economies, not enriching them but creating a consumerist "welfare" type of existence of interdependence. Then they are off again to another base. Always moving, creating a "single mother" environment that their children are raised in. A new crop of transferees coming in to start the cycle all over again. Some people stay "in service" and make it their lifestyle.

It also creates plenty of "police state" minded people that will follow in line… right off the cliff. Remember there are extended families around these soldiers who love and support them.

But –

It is not the soldier’s "fault" for doing what they do, or the way they do it. For many, there is no other choice. It is seen as a way to become educated, provide for their families or otherwise "get ahead." I would say that there are even some that feel that the military is a way to "serve" as well.

Why is there no draft? I mean really, if the soldiers are being burned out tour after tour and the "hidden draft" local national guard units from the states are not enough, then why don’t we reinstate the draft? Think about that one. I won’t answer it. I think I know why. It has to do with the 1% and no, it does not mean that their offspring may have to go. We already know they could get out of serving very easy.

Where does this leave us? –

What the heck does this all have to do with the 3 – E’s or this threads premise. Well, everything – and kind of nothing.

It has nothing to do with the thread, if we can continue as we have been – Ad infinitum. It has nothing to do with the 3 – E’s as long as you believe that we are not bumping up to the edge of our resource limits. Now by bumping into the limits let me say this; I don’t mean "Mad-Max" limits. I mean, think of it like this; have you ever gone to the edge of the Grand Canyon or neared the edge of a tall building? Perhaps just approached the edge of the road too closely while driving a little too fast.

Think of that feeling – the one that raises the hair on the nap of your neck. That is what I mean by "bumping up to the edge." Does it mean that we are there at the edge? No. It means that we can see the edge. We can anticipate what will happen if we venture too close. We can see the limit of resources and it is eliciting a visceral response that we know that "something is wrong."

How close we get to the edge will determine if we go over it or drive into the ditch. Something is wrong. (there’s that phrase again) It has been for a long time.

Damning each other for the sake of retort won’t help. Posting only one-sided extremest drivel does not help either.

What is right is right and what is wrong is wrong. Perspective is the lesson and experience is the teacher. If I am too rigid in my beliefs my experience will be too narrow. I may miss what is right and believe in what is wrong.

 C.

  • Sun, Oct 02, 2011 - 02:14pm

    #1317

    Aaron M

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Oct 22 2008

    Posts: 790

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    I am, and I agree in some

[quote] I was under the impression that you are a Ron Paul supporter. Ron Paul has stated that we should cut the military budget by 75%. I heard that on NPR a month or two ago.[/quote]

I am, and I agree in some regards.
Do I think standing armies are an affront to liberty. Yes, on an idealistic level, I do.
Is it practical to think in a world populated by despots, dictators and violent conflict of ideas sharing a room with nuclear weapons, stealth bombers and biological weapons to ignore the necessity for a practical way to defend yourself? 

Not for a damn split second. Ron Paul’s thinking on the matter is a relic of a more civilized time – a time I’d glady  see us return to.
But we can’t.

In many areas, local military installations are the only lifeline for the local economies. Is this good? 
Hell-to-the-no, but it’s part of a flawed system that’s in the process of working itself out.
But that’s not the issue, and your reply isn’t an answer to the questions I’ve asked.

The issue is that there’s a group in the country of Afghanistan who literally shoots children with impunity.

Let me share another story with you – from my personal experience:

Because I have a ‘passible’ Dari vocabulary, I get the job of translating for folks from time to time.
The other day, I met a man and his son. The boy had been shot twice, by the Taliban. One bullet knicked his bowels, and one knicked his kidney. His father recounted to me the story of how he heard the shots, and went to scoop his son off the ground. He showed me his calloused hands as he gestured lifting him, and feeling his hands coated in blood.

He repeated two things through the conversation "Taliban, why would they do this?" and "He’s only five!" – he’d hold his hand up, showing Panj to make sure I understood.

Albert Einstein once said: 
"The world will not be destroyed by those who do evil, but by those who watch them and do nothing."

Is it myopic to think that we’re having an impact here?
No, I don’t believe so. In the long term, if our sacrifice helps the people of this country stabilize, reject the authoritarian brutes who dominate it, then it will be a success for global society.

An article more relevant:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-14897977

Of particular importance is the exchange between The CO and Mr. Sarif.

This plays out here on a daily basis. In many cases, the men sent to attack are forced to by the Taliban or Haqqani network, who threaten to murder their families if they do not.
How does one address such barbarianism? Through cunning language? 
I can tell you – first hand – the people here do not respect shallow talk, or rhetorical nonsense.

Aaron

  • Sun, Oct 02, 2011 - 02:18pm

    #1318

    xraymike79

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Aug 25 2008

    Posts: 804

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    RNcarl wrote:  … My

[quote=RNcarl]

 

My point is, there is a generation of us who are in our late forties – early fifties who were children during that time. We were getting mixed messages from TPTB and the young vets returning from war who were torn to shreds (literally and mentally). We saw with our eyes the devastation war caused to our returning soldiers and the people of the lands that were invaded. Our soldiers were returning from doing a dirty job and being disrespected by both their fellow citizens and the government who sent them there. Something felt "wrong."

The problem was, no one from TPTB side could give us a good reason "why" we were in Viet-Nam.So taking care of the returning soldiers became politically "unpopular" so the war and its vets were swept under the rug.

Now –

Here is the paradox. I think George Carlin should go down as one of the great philosophers of the twentieth century. He made us think. From the "seven words that can never be said on television" to his later darker thoughts after his wife died from cancer.

We fight wars. I used to say, "Why are we the world’s police department?" I believe it isn’t that simple. TPTB raise just enough morality issues in whatever theater they want to invade to the point that the populace has no other choice but to condone the action or risk being seen as "unpatriotic or barbaric or not christian." And, if we don’t support our soldiers, we (the people) risk returning to acting like the public during the end of the "Nam" era.

I believe there is a "military-industrial complex." I believe it only serves to make those who own it richer. I have seen "military welfare" first hand where young folks that needed a job joined the service and drag their child brides and offspring around the country being transferred from base to base being given "housing allowances" – buying goods "on base" and pumping money into local economies, not enriching them but creating a consumerist "welfare" type of existence of interdependence. Then they are off again to another base. Always moving, creating a "single mother" environment that their children are raised in. A new crop of transferees coming in to start the cycle all over again. Some people stay "in service" and make it their lifestyle.

It also creates plenty of "police state" minded people that will follow in line… right off the cliff. Remember there are extended families around these soldiers who love and support them.

But –

It is not the soldier’s "fault" for doing what they do, or the way they do it. For many, there is no other choice. It is seen as a way to become educated, provide for their families or otherwise "get ahead." I would say that there are even some that feel that the military is a way to "serve" as well.

Why is there no draft? I mean really, if the soldiers are being burned out tour after tour and the "hidden draft" local national guard units from the states are not enough, then why don’t we reinstate the draft? Think about that one. I won’t answer it. I think I know why. It has to do with the 1% and no, it does not mean that their offspring may have to go. We already know they could get out of serving very easy.

Where does this leave us? –

What the heck does this all have to do with the 3 – E’s or this threads premise. Well, everything – and kind of nothing.

It has nothing to do with the thread, if we can continue as we have been – Ad infinitum. It has nothing to do with the 3 – E’s as long as you believe that we are not bumping up to the edge of our resource limits. Now by bumping into the limits let me say this; I don’t mean "Mad-Max" limits. I mean, think of it like this; have you ever gone to the edge of the Grand Canyon or neared the edge of a tall building? Perhaps just approached the edge of the road too closely while driving a little too fast.

Think of that feeling – the one that raises the hair on the nap of your neck. That is what I mean by "bumping up to the edge." Does it mean that we are there at the edge? No. It means that we can see the edge. We can anticipate what will happen if we venture too close. We can see the limit of resources and it is eliciting a visceral response that we know that "something is wrong."

How close we get to the edge will determine if we go over it or drive into the ditch. Something is wrong. (there’s that phrase again) It has been for a long time.

Damning each other for the sake of retort won’t help. Posting only one-sided extremest drivel does not help either.

What is right is right and what is wrong is wrong. Perspective is the lesson and experience is the teacher. If I am too rigid in my beliefs my experience will be too narrow. I may miss what is right and believe in what is wrong.

 C.

[/quote]

Great thoughts. You seem to be making my case for me better than I could. In the video that was deleted/censored by the Moderator, Henry Rollins even states that he does not fault the young people who want to get out of the backwoods of America to make something of themselves. Perhaps people did not listen carefully to it. As far as your comments on George Carlin, I could not agree more, but as you and he both stated, we should "think" and question the government narrative being spoon-fed to us without being harassed for doing so and condemned as a "socialist", "anti-American", or some other expletive. Free speech, anyone? Isn’t Ron Paul the only candidate speeking the truth when it comes to American militarism?

And the existence of the MIC? How can anyone deny it when more than half of every tax dollar goes to support it? And who needs a draft when you can pull people in with slick advertisements and a steady paycheck when no one else is hiring? A better allocation of resources would do the whole world a lot of good. 

  • Sun, Oct 02, 2011 - 02:47pm

    #1319

    xraymike79

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Aug 25 2008

    Posts: 804

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    Alpha Mike wrote: Quote: I

[quote=Alpha Mike]

[quote] I was under the impression that you are a Ron Paul supporter. Ron Paul has stated that we should cut the military budget by 75%. I heard that on NPR a month or two ago.[/quote] 

Not for a damn split second. Ron Paul’s thinking on the matter is a relic of a more civilized time – a time I’d glady  see us return to.
But we can’t.

[/quote]

That’s funny because a number of people believe his views on free-market capitalism are nothing more than the outdated and misplaced ramblings of an ‘old frontier’ idealogue. 

[quote=Alpha Mike]

In many areas, local military installations are the only lifeline for the local economies. Is this good? 
Hell-to-the-no, but it’s part of a flawed system that’s in the process of working itself out.
But that’s not the issue, and your reply isn’t an answer to the questions I’ve asked.

The issue is that there’s a group in the country of Afghanistan who literally shoots children with impunity….

[/quote]

I hear you loud and clear, but as RNcarl stated, are we the world’s policeman? Or more aptly, is the entire world America’s backyard? Do we have the right to tinker and intervene in every corner of the globe as we see fit while our infrastructure crumbles and citizens go hungry and unemployed? And who really benefits from U.S. militarism? (a difficult and uneasy question to ask in polite quarters)

I find your firsthand accounts interesting nonetheless.

  • Sun, Oct 02, 2011 - 04:48pm

    #1320

    Moderator Jason

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Dec 23 2008

    Posts: 24

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    War discussion and the mission of this site

This is an interesting discussion, and it can continue for a little while.  But it is important to note that in some respects this conversation is moot, as it relates to this thread.  I will post the substance of my recent request to xraymike, since it applies to everybody:

[quote=Moderator Jason]

Hi Mike,

[ . . . ]

Chris has always tried hard to avoid politically divisive issues, except (in the very rare occasions) where such an excursion is necessary to the discussion of economics.  And more broadly, there is a general assumption that the discussion forums will be used to discuss topics that are related to that headline material.

This website does not – cannot – exist to solve every major problem in the world.  This website forum exists for the purpose of discussing the kinds of things that Chris Martenson writes about.

The upshot is this: if you are going to post in the main threads, I am going to have to insist that anything you post has a definite 3E connection. 

By that I mean:

(1)  Is commentary or analysis related to something that Chris has written about, or

(2)  Is a natural outgrowth of those subjects, such as specific changes to one’s personal or community life, or topics related to the skills, materials, or knowledge necessary to make those changes.

If you are having any difficulty deciding what is related and what is not, I suggest you look to Chris Martenson’s work for guidance.  If you can’t realistically visualize Chris writing a Martenson Report on the subject (no matter how much you might wish he would), then it’s probably not germaine to the mission of the site. Anything else – such as commentary relating to the wars, war in general, or other failures of culture or government – should be posted in the CT folder. 

As far as war goes, feel free to speak on it if your comments are Chris Martenson-esque.  For example, Chris himself has speculated whether, as a matter of energy policy, our strategy of military control of the Middle Eastern oil fields is a viable strategy, given the difficulty of guarding the pipes and tanker routes coupled with the ease of mining or blocking the Straight of Hormuz, etc.

Feel free to contact me any time with questions or comments.
[/quote]

What is related to the 3E’s is a matter of judgment, and many conversations will inevitably wander off of the reservation from time to time.  But in general, we would like users to make a good-faith effort to use the forums for the purposes described above.

  • Sun, Oct 02, 2011 - 07:40pm

    #1321

    Aaron M

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Oct 22 2008

    Posts: 790

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    Ron Paul and World Police

 [quote]That’s funny because a number of people believe his views on free-market capitalism are nothing more than the outdated and misplaced ramblings of an ‘old frontier’ idealogue. [/quote]

They are correct. 
The problem is, like many things, the "outdated" version is more correct.
People haven’t, and probably will never learn that not all movement is progress.

There is "no way" we can return to his ideals – which is ironic, because it’s all but inevitable that they will be forced upon us once this system "reboots".

[quote]I hear you loud and clear, but as RNcarl stated, are we the world’s policeman? Or more aptly, is the entire world America’s backyard? Do we have the right to tinker and intervene in every corner of the globe as we see fit while our infrastructure crumbles and citizens go hungry and unemployed? And who really benefits from U.S. militarism? (a difficult and uneasy question to ask in polite quarters)

I find your firsthand accounts interesting nonetheless.[/quote]

Mike, these issues are answered so far above you or I, that it’s pedantic to argue them.
Further, you already know the answer to these questions. "Leading", in every way – but that’s not a problem. 

We can’t afford to police the world. We’re bankrupt and everyone here knows it.
What I do take *some* respite in is this:
On our way out, we can do some good, and I believe the work we’re doing in Afghanistan is for a greater good. 
Again, it’s costly and not what I’d "choose" for us to do, but since the circumstances are what they are – we may as well be ridding the world of some of the most heinous bastards ever to terrorize a population.

That’s all I’ve got on the subject. Thanks for the dialog.

Aaron

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