Timeline/Stages for Collapse of our Way of Life

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  • Fri, Sep 30, 2011 - 07:53pm

    #1302

    goes211

    Status Gold Member (Offline)

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    Posts: 287

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    War or Pizza?

First I would like to say that I like Henry Rollins.  I remember watching a little of his set at Lollapalooza in 1991 (showing my age).  He was not exactly my thing because I was there to see Jane’s Addiction, Nine Inch Nails, Siouxsie and the Banshees,… but he seems far more intelligent than most rockers.

I don’t think health care is such a cut and dry issue as he implies.  In a perfect world, of infinite resources, there would be no arguments about it.  However the real world is not like that so medical resources ( money, drugs, doctors,… ) need to be rationed.  The example he gives about someone losing their house because their wife gets breast cancer is a great example of the failure ( or misallocation ) of our current resources.  The statist single payer system is not the only alternative to the current system.  To imply the choice is that or our current government/corporate hybrid is absurd.

Ignoring the constitutional issues for the moment, if the government must get involved in health care, it should do so in the least intrusive maner possible.  There would be far less resistence from conservatives and libertarians if this would have been attacked at the catastrophic health insurance level.   Most people agree and would be willing to give up a little liberty and tax dollars, in return for a policy that helps those that suffer from large unexpected accidents or that unexpectedly come down with chronic ailments.  This could have helped remove a lot of fear from the back of everyones mind, constantly worrying that they or their child will suddenly come down with cancer.   These events occur infrequent enough that the whole of society might have been willing to give up some hard earned money as part of a "social contract" to help someone in need, knowing that someday, that someone might be themselves.  After all that is the whole concept of insurance, sharing across a large group the large cost of an unexpected event.

Unfortunately that is not what health insurance is.  Health insurance, as it exists currently, is nothing but a prepaid care system.  What do you expect to happen to the prices of a system where the cost is disconnected from the usage?  If people purchased gasoline the way we purchase health care, everyone would drive the biggest SUV because they would not care about the cost of the gas.   As long as this situation remains, American health care and insurance are hopelessly broken.

However what we recieved with Obamacare was a system that adds another 40 million users, without adding additional medical resources or setting any limits, and delusionally claims to lower costs.  Show me anything that is given away for free, that also decreases in cost.

I see health care the same as I see most of the long line of divisive issues between Bush/Obama or Dems/Repubs.  With the election of Obama, what the people have received is the worst of both worlds.  When Obama was running for President, I knew he would be an absolute disaster economically but I figured he might actually help the country in other ways like bringing back civil liberties, close Gitmo, end foreign wars, lower the drug war, increase prosecution of corporate crimes, reduce crony capitalism, …  

In every case Obama has only made bad Bush policies worse while adding to the over spending, over regulation, and creation of additional entitlement’s at the expense of future generations.

ps.  XRM, what is with the new avatar?  Is that from Donny Darko?

  • Fri, Sep 30, 2011 - 08:27pm

    #1303

    Full Moon

    Status Gold Member (Offline)

    Joined: Oct 14 2008

    Posts: 265

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    quick question

 Sooooo…. are you all  giving up your health insurance ?   Now is the time to decide to opt out  or add your children that are under 26 back on. .

 FM

  • Fri, Sep 30, 2011 - 08:31pm

    #1304

    darbikrash

    Status Gold Member (Offline)

    Joined: Aug 25 2009

    Posts: 297

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    ..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PiXDTK_CBY&feature=player_embedded&noredirect=1

 

                

 

  • Fri, Sep 30, 2011 - 09:24pm

    #1305
    agitating prop

    agitating prop

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: May 28 2009

    Posts: 298

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     X-RAY!!  You have a new

 X-RAY!!  You have a new avatar!  A toast with accompanying music to you and the many who have made this one of the best threads online! Thanks so much for your effort!

Mad World:

  • Fri, Sep 30, 2011 - 10:04pm

    #1306

    Stan Robertson

    Status Gold Member (Offline)

    Joined: Oct 07 2008

    Posts: 516

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    The way it is

[quote=goes211] Health insurance, as it exists currently, is nothing but a prepaid care system.  What do you expect to happen to the prices of a system where the cost is disconnected from the usage?  If people purchased gasoline the way we purchase health care, everyone would drive the biggest SUV because they would not care about the cost of the gas.   As long as this situation remains, American health care and insurance are hopelessly broken.[/quote]

+1

  • Fri, Sep 30, 2011 - 10:18pm

    #1307

    xraymike79

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Aug 25 2008

    Posts: 804

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    goes211 wrote:… However

[quote=goes211]

However what we recieved with Obamacare was a system that adds another 40 million users, without adding additional medical resources or setting any limits, and delusionally claims to lower costs.  Show me anything that is given away for free, that also decreases in cost.

I see health care the same as I see most of the long line of divisive issues between Bush/Obama or Dems/Repubs.  With the election of Obama, what the people have received is the worst of both worlds.  When Obama was running for President, I knew he would be an absolute disaster economically but I figured he might actually help the country in other ways like bringing back civil liberties, close Gitmo, end foreign wars, lower the drug war, increase prosecution of corporate crimes, reduce crony capitalism, …  

In every case Obama has only made bad Bush policies worse while adding to the over spending, over regulation, and creation of additional entitlement’s at the expense of future generations.

ps.  XRM, what is with the new avatar?  Is that from Donny Darko?

[/quote]

Agree with what you said here. Of course Obama didn’t do what most Americans desired or what a majority of physicians and nurses advocated; he allowed the health insurance industry to dictate/write the legislation. It’s no different than anything else that comes out of the Washington sausage factory.

Your list of music interests is right up my alley as well. I never really looked into Rollins political/cultural views until recently, but have found that they are essentially in sync with my own.

I’ve heard that there have been Libertarians attending the Wallstreet protests and that Nader has talked about a Left/Libertarian alliance which is a good thing. Chris Hedges recently said the Tea Party is not the problem, and I have come to agree with that view. Most who have educated themselves on the major issues are angry at the government and both parties at this point. As has been talked about, we have a symbiotic relationship between the elite monied interests and the government which has shut out the concerns of a majority of Americans. I haven’t yet watched the video that DK just posted, but I see what looks like a very stomach-churning, "let them eat cake" picture of a handful of the upper crust sipping on champaign atop a balcony while entertaining themselves with the sight of protestors down below being maced, kettled, and beaten over the head. That visual pretty much describes the elitist political economy we live under.

That’s Frank, my Halloween costume.

  • Sat, Oct 01, 2011 - 02:09am

    #1308

    Damnthematrix

    Status Diamond Member (Offline)

    Joined: Aug 09 2008

    Posts: 1132

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    The Last Mountain

The overburden: Review of “The Last Mountain”

Activists

Civil disobedient citizens stand up against the encroachment of the coal industry. Photo: The Last Mountain.

“Coal River Mountain is our last mountain in the Coal River Valley that hasn’t been blasted to ashes.”

– Bo Webb, a military veteran, coalminer’s son, and former tool-and-die shop owner in Cleveland who moved back to his family home in the Coal River Valley of West Virginia

For the past twenty months or so I’ve curated The Local Motion Film Series for our area’s Transition group, Transition Staunton Augusta. We’ve shown a film on climate, peak oil, energy, culture, local food or economy once a month for two years and followed it up each time with a community conversation on the issues presented.

For a cinephile like me, this is pure pleasure.

I’ve screened a ton of films at work — for review on Transition Voice — some of which I’ve also been able to show locally with the distributor’s permission. This means I’ve seen some of the finest documentaries out there, and had the good fortune to expose my small, rural community to films they might otherwise not have seen or heard about, helping move our local dialogue ahead on the issues facing us all.

And though I’m not a person who generally picks faves — I’m terribly fickle when it comes to films — there’s one film among these that in my view stands head and shoulders above the rest. That’s The Last Mountain, a new documentary about the battle for Coal River Mountain in Boone County, West Virginia.

The last mountain

The Last Mountain Poster

The Last Mountain, June 2011, 95 minutes, Dada Films, Directed by Bill Haney.

Released in June of this year, The Last Mountain is currently being screened across the country in small venues, prestigious showings and at special events. If I’ve earned any cred with you on my many film reviews, take my advice and don’t miss it if it’s showing in your neck of the woods.

There’s something about The Last Mountain that achieves that ultimate sweet spot a documentary can reach — more so than any other I’ve seen on the topic of mountaintop removal, and more so than most documentaries on energy in general.

I don’t say this to disparage other movies. Without a doubt blockbusters like Food Inc., and smaller budget pictures like The Greenhorns have told their stories in compelling and courageous ways, often adding new storytelling elements to the documentary form and effectively raising the ire of industry even if it seemed the filmmaker was one lone voice crying in the wilderness.

But for me, what sets The Last Mountain apart is that rare combination of factors that together achieve a new gestalt, with the potential weight of a tipping point.

  • Sat, Oct 01, 2011 - 04:17pm

    #1309

    xraymike79

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Aug 25 2008

    Posts: 804

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    War and the Old Integrity

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cr7ePrCAqzo

 

The Old Integrity | Common Wonders

 

What we must build is unprecedented: a truly humane world. This won’t happen in a state of cynical separation from one another. This is not, as you may have noticed, the world we are actually building. We wage war and business in the same old ways, with a reckless determination to replicate the triumphant past, but it’s not working. Every failure ups the ante and fuels our determination not to change course.

“With the hubris that marks empires over the millennia, Washington has increased its troops in Afghanistan to 100,000, expanded the war into Pakistan, and extended its commitment to 2014 and beyond, courting disasters large and small in this guerrilla-infested, nuclear-armed graveyard of empires,” Alfred McCoy wrote in The Nation last December.

America the sputtering empire may be flailing in its death throes, ignoring its own needs and people, letting its infrastructure collapse, skimping on healthcare and education, but, as Glenn Greenwald recently reported, it’s building a $100 million detention facility in Bagram, Afghanistan, among its endless toxic follies of global domination.

“To date, the United States has spent more than $2.5 trillion on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, the Pentagon spending spree that accompanied it and a battery of new homeland security measures instituted after Sept. 11,” economists Linda Bilmes and Joseph Stiglitz wrote a few days ago in the Los Angeles Times.

They added: “Already, half of the returning troops have been treated in Veterans Administration medical centers, and more than 600,000 have qualified to receive disability compensation. At this point, the bill for future medical and disability benefits is estimated at $600 billion to $900 billion, but the number will almost surely grow as hundreds of thousands of troops still deployed abroad return home.”

And as though we don’t have enough enemies, we’re also waging a furious war on our own southern border and throughout the country, purging ourselves of the “illegal aliens” who steal America’s jobs and, as John McCain recently fulminated, start wildfires in Arizona.

But our anti-immigrant consciousness doesn’t limit itself to merely dehumanizing and deporting foreigners. This is also a war about what people are allowed to think, with the state of Arizona leading the charge against its own ethnic studies programs, in particular (what a surprise) Mexican American Studies. Roberto Rodriguez, writing on Common Dreams, described the Tucson Unified School District’s ongoing appeal of the state’s non-compliance ruling against it “reminiscent of the 1500s-era Inquisition” and “a war against Indigenous Knowledge.”

This hollow, multi-front war is one we will lose, but there is a divine irony here. Only in defeat do we have the opportunity to begin rebuilding ourselves — on the foundation of a new integrity, based not on domination but harmony with ourselves and our planet.

 

  • Sun, Oct 02, 2011 - 02:04am

    #1310

    xraymike79

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Aug 25 2008

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    Why do I post about WAR

Why do I post about WAR:

War for finite resources(i.e. oil and gas) as well as for cheap human labor pools and markets for corporations of ‘developed countries’ would seem to fall into the three E’s, would it not?

I only post things if they grab my attention, and war over dwindling resources grabs my attention. Of course we don’t publicly say that’s why we wage war because it’s too barbaric to frame it that way and makes it a harder sell to the public.

By talking about the underlining reasons and costs(both monetary and social) of war waged by the ‘developed world’, perhaps people can better understand the kind of unsustainable lifestyle and economy we have created for ourselves. That endeavor would seem to be directly related to the economy, energy, and the environment, would it not? Talking about these unpleasantries may help to move us along to a more sustainable and just system for the world to live in.

As Jerry Mander recently said:

"We have an economic system that is entirely dependent upon taking from others[WAR], taking from the future, and taking from the ancient past. This economic system is built upon the presumption of everlasting growth. Thus in order to keep it going (keep it growing) we must take more from others[WAR], take more from the future, and take more from the ancient past."

I understand the things I post about are disturbing to some who don’t want to have the veil of comforting and reassuring propaganda pulled back, but isn’t this avoiding reality and living a lie?

 

  • Sun, Oct 02, 2011 - 09:10am

    #1311
    jumblies

    jumblies

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    xraymike79 wrote:I

[quote=xraymike79]

I understand the things I post about are disturbing to some who don’t want to have the veil of comforting and reassuring propaganda pulled back, but isn’t this avoiding reality and living a lie?

[/quote]

I think everyone on this board is seeking the truth because we’ve realised the official story is bollocks. Much of what you post is disturbing but that’s the point – the truth hurts. If we want the truth then we must be prepared for it to be unpleasant (otherwise why would it be hidden?).

I appreciate your, and everyone else’s, posts. I’m learning a lot, thinking more and my view of what’s important in life is changing from being monetary/technology-driven to being more socially/family driven.

So this site is succeeding.

 

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