The whole Catalan mess

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  • Tue, Oct 03, 2017 - 02:35am

    #11

    Wendy S. Delmater

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    moving LV shooter to new discussion

Let's move any discussion about the Las Vegas shooter to a new discussion to keep the issues separate. 

  • Tue, Oct 03, 2017 - 05:19am

    #12
    Time2help

    Time2help

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    M240B?

Cyclic rate seems to match. Anyone with crew fired weapons experience feel free to chime in.

Another anomaly, at 2:23 and 2:40: What, exactly, does the man filming via cellphone say?

Fine with moving this to an alternate thread.

https://youtu.be/M9MIhXjMlKc

  • Tue, Oct 03, 2017 - 12:12pm

    #13

    Rector

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    Sounds like it.

Sure sounds like it.  Of course someone would have to have pulled the tracers out of the belt.  If true, it will not be possible to hide the 7.62 bullet holes all over the place.  The caliber will come out and I'm going to guess 7.62X39.

If it is a M240B, there are profound implications.  Ours weren't issued until the late 1990's and so almost NONE are in the Class III NFA transferable inventory.  Only a Class III Dealer SOT (Special Occupational Taxpayer) could possibly have one as a dealer "sample".  I found ONE for sale as a post 86 dealer sample and it was $27,500.00! 

I would also have a hard time believing one could be found on the "black market" as they just aren't available through civilian channels.  

That being said, the sound and cadence were compellingly similar.

Rector

  • Tue, Oct 03, 2017 - 12:22pm

    #14

    sand_puppy

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    error

.

  • Thu, Oct 05, 2017 - 08:45pm

    #15

    000

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    Bones of Contention

https://vimeo.com/186488374

  • Thu, Oct 05, 2017 - 10:32pm

    #16

    Locksmithuk

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    “Shooter’s” girlfriend

[quote=sand_puppy]

If she should become unable to tell her story, my suspicions would rise significantly.

[/quote]

 

The first [big] mistake she made was to return to US soil.

  • Fri, Oct 06, 2017 - 11:57am

    #17

    thc0655

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    Catalonia shows the danger of disarming civilians

https://fee.org/articles/catalonia-shows-the-danger-of-disarming-civilians/

Since the tragic murder of 59 peaceful concertgoers in Las Vegas Sunday, I’ve heard well-intentioned Americans from all political corners echoing heartbroken and tempting refrains:

Can’t we just ban guns?

Surely we can all get together on the rocket launchers.

Things like this would happen less often.

We have enough military.

While victims were still in surgery, some took to television and social media to criticize the “outdated” and “dangerous” Second Amendment to the Constitution. They have lived so long in a safe, stable society that they falsely believe armed citizens are a threat to life and liberty for everyone.

Those who claim to see no necessity or benefits of individual gun ownership need only look to the rolling hills of Catalonia, where a live social experiment is currently unfolding.

Unarmed Patriots

Just hours before an alleged lone gunman opened fire from the Mandalay Bay casino, the citizens of a small region surrounding Barcelona, Spain, cast a vote for their regional independence. Catalonia’s citizens have a unique language, culture, and history, and consider Spain a neighboring power, not their rightful rulers. So as America’s Continental Congress heroically did (and as Texans and Californians occasionally threaten to do) Catalonia wished to declare independence and secede.

Polling stations in Catalonia were attacked by heavily armed agents of the state with riot gear and pointed rifles. Spanish National Police fired rubber bullets and unleashed tear gas canisters on voters, broke down polling center doors, disrupted the vote, and destroyed enough ballots to throw results into serious doubt. 

Exceedingly few of those would-be patriots were armed.

In Spain, firearm ownership is not a protected individual right. Civilian firearms licenses are restricted to “cases of extreme necessity” if the government finds “genuine reason.” Background checks, medical exams, and license restrictions further restrict access. Licenses are granted individually by caliber and model, with automatic weapons strictly forbidden to civilians. Police can demand a citizen produce a firearm at any time for inspection or confiscation. Spain has enacted, it would seem, the kind of “common sense restrictions” American gun-control advocates crave.

But of course, that doesn’t mean that Spanish citizens don’t buy guns. In fact, Spanish taxpayers maintain an enormous arsenal of weapons, which are all in the hands “professional armed police forces within the administration of the state, who are the persons in charge of providing security to the population.”

Those agents of the state weren’t “providing security to the population” of Catalonia on Sunday — they were pointing guns at would-be founding patriots who had challenged the rule of their oppressors.

“If somebody tries to declare the independence of part of the territory — something that cannot be done — we will have to do everything possible to apply the law,” Spain’s justice minister said in a public address.  While many polling places were closed or barricaded, 2.3 million voters (90% in favor of independence) were permitted to vote, he claimed, “because the security forces decided that it wasn’t worth using force because of the consequences that it could have.”

The consequences of a government using force to control those it is sworn to protect must be high. When citizens are armed, the consequences for tyranny rise and its likelihood falls.

How different things might have been in Catalonia if the police and politicians knew that the citizens were armed with handguns and rifles.  My guess is the police thugs would've been much more circumspect than they were, dragging old ladies out of polling stations by their hair.

The citizens of Athens, Tennessee took up arms and revolted against the political corruption in their county in 1946.  They restored the rule of law and ejected the local power elite.  If you don't know the story, you should.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Athens_(1946)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=U5ut6yPrObw

 
  • Sun, Oct 08, 2017 - 02:00pm

    #18

    Wendy S. Delmater

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    Distributed government

Successes and failures in the use of digital tools in Catalonia’s rebellion

The battle presently being fought in the streets and polling stations in towns and cities throughout Catalonia before, during and after October 1, in which a diverse civil society has come together in huge numbers, putting their bodies and knowledge in the service of the shared goal of defending what is considered to be real democracy, has also had a crucial battleground in the case of the Internet.

This is a very long article, but worth your time. 

  • Tue, Oct 10, 2017 - 07:32pm

    #19

    sand_puppy

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    Catelonia today.

As collapse moves from the outside in, we have a chance to see how things work in other locations.  Greece, Venezuela, Cyprus, Yemen, Syria….

And now Catalonia. 

Armstrong reports that the Catalan Police are siding with the people against the national police (Madrid).

What is going on in Spain is the blueprint what what other governments will do. The Spanish people themselves outside of Catalonia are deeply divided. Many see this as offensive and others see the government as offensive. We are looking at the breakup of the USA as well and do not forget the civil war to prevent separatists in America. The real issue is that people ban together for creating society and civilization and then government abuses its power and the process of decline begins. This is throughout history and it really does not matter what culture or country. It is all the same.

Spain’s Constitutional Court, the puppet of Rajoy, on Thursday ordered the suspension of Monday’s session of the regional Catalan parliament. Rajoy is demonstrating that government will not tolerate losing power. You can always write a law and claim it is unconstitutional to separate. 

 

"With the results of October 1, Catalonia has won the right to be an independent state," Puigdemont said. "If everyone acts responsibly, the conflict can be resolved with calm."

The question then was how the Spanish central government would respond, which it did when it appears to have purposefully misinterpreted Puigdemont speech, declaring that "Catalonia has declared deferred independence" and, as El Pais reports, "Central government sources say they consider Puigdemont's speech to be a declaration of independence" with a press officer for the Rajoy cabinet telling Bloomberg that "it’s not acceptable to make an implicit declaration of independence and then explicitly leave it hanging." adding that Puigdemont“has taken his irresponsibility to the absolute extreme by ignoring the laws, citizens.”

As a result, "the Rajoy government will take measures, and is expected to apply Article 155 of the Constitution."

 

 

  • Sun, Oct 22, 2017 - 07:10pm

    #20
    agitating prop

    agitating prop

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    I lived in Catalonia for a

I lived in Catalonia for a time.  It is by far the most prosperous area of Spain. Their efforts to leave Spain and I am assuming, divorce their share of the national debt, would leave Spain much worse off than Greece ever was. The Castillianos shouldn't be beating up the Spaniards though. Not pretty!  

A word of caution, don't ever ask a Catalonian to explain the roots of the problem unless you are prepared to spend several hours being confused. Spanish history is mind bending. As any Spaniards will tell you, Europe is a collection of hatreds.  The EU was created to address this, make it more homogenous. Unfortunately, that is a next to impossible task. 

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