The Ugly Side of Precious Metals

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  • Tue, Sep 27, 2011 - 02:55pm

    #1
    gcruwitme

    gcruwitme

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    The Ugly Side of Precious Metals

 Preserving your wealth has other costs

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/sep/26/amazon-gold-rush-prices-soar

  • Wed, Sep 28, 2011 - 10:38am

    #2
    TNdancer

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    People get killed in inner

People get killed in inner cities for their overpriced tennis shoes or leather jacket.

What’s your point ?  That have nots will kill haves ? 

Welcome to the earth, 3rd rock from the sun.

  • Wed, Sep 28, 2011 - 01:52pm

    #3
    tictac1

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    exactly

There will always be people willing to hurt others to gain what they did not work for.  In our country, most of them wear suits and ties.  Personally, I prefer plain old piracy, at least you can see them coming.

  • Wed, Sep 28, 2011 - 06:25pm

    #4

    katyan

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    we cannot close our eyes

gcruwitme, thank you for your post. I caused me to think about what a complex web we weave. While individually we are not directly responsible for the crimes of others, we cannot simply close our eyes to our role in contributing to the conditions that drive them. I was disappointed to see the rather cynical and dismissive replies.

There is no doubt that the pursuit of gold and other precious metals/gems has extremely negative social and environmental consequences. Yet many of us, myself included, own these commodities as a hedge against what we see as an unsustainable monetary system…and we would prefer not to be reminded of any unpleasant consequences. As most humans seem to have the uncanny ability to do, we rationalize whatever we want.

I think that this is a topic that should be seriously discussed and appreciate you sticking your neck out to put in on the table. Based on previous discussions of similar topics, such as investing in so-called "sin" stocks, the camps are pretty predictable. There are those who are struggling with their conscience and attempting to disentangle themselves (to the extent possible within the current culture) from anything that causes harm. Then there are those who justify gaming the system for their own gain since the whole thing is corrupt and doomed, and they can’t do anything to change it anyway.

If everyone gives up hope that our actions as individuals matter in the larger world, what’s the point of any code of ethics?

I will act as if what I do makes a difference.
~ William James

It’s difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it.
~Upton Sinclair

  • Wed, Sep 28, 2011 - 06:32pm

    #5
    heffe

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    Have’s/have’s not = false outdated dichotomy

[quote=TNdancer]

People get killed in inner cities for their overpriced tennis shoes or leather jacket.

What’s your point ?  That have nots will kill haves ? 

Welcome to the earth, 3rd rock from the sun.

[/quote]

 

This to me, demonstrates the lack of critical thinking within the older generations.  It is a common phrase used as an explanatory excuse for the miserable state of the world.

There is no difference between a have and have not, there are both humans, the only thing seperating them is the lottery of chance and the circumstances of your life, especially in the first 2 decades. 

If you are a ‘have’ you probably pride yourself in the idea that your wealth has only arisen from your ‘hard work’, forgetting that the circumstances in which you are born into shape your access to values and understandings.  Im 24, have been in poverty all my life, and have watched my mother work her ass off, just to be broke and unemployed with a MA in business.

I work harder than anyone I know, yet I still find myself sinking into debt quicksand that will never go away. I am a have not compared to many, I am a have compared to more, but overall I recognize that these false dichotomies are nothing but destructive beliefs.

My grandparents, nor my parents knew better, my generation will. My generation will forever look back on the insidious monetary-market religion as ‘the most bizarre thought delusion in all human history."

 

  • Wed, Sep 28, 2011 - 09:00pm

    #6

    Retha Scott

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    ‘Wealth’ is relative

 @Heffe

Whether you want to believe it or not, see it or not…the entire globe is comprised of ‘haves’ and ‘have nots’  – the term is coined relative to how much ‘stuff’ you have or have not, how much ‘money’ you have or have not.  In every country on every continent, there are those that have and those that have not.  The structure of governments is one that maintains the class statuses of have and have nots.  That will never change so long as ours & other societies continue along historical paths.  Historical records back to the time before the Bible reflect ‘haves’ & ‘have nots’.  It is the nature of social order for humans.   Not "lack of critical thinking within the older generations"

Wealth on the other hand – is how you live with what you ‘have’ or ‘have not’  

In the article above…the ‘have nots’ are killing & stealing from the workers.  Possibly to feed their families, possibly to make a buck.  Who knows.  The workers are probably also ‘have nots’  working their butts off to provide for their families.  It is not fair, it is not right.  It is the way it is.  With billions of people in the world each with unique experiences, perceptions, beliefs and choices….Desperate people make desperate choices.  

Remember this article in your ‘preparations’  There are many who are not preparing…and will have to make tough choices if their family is starving…be prepared to either provide for them or protect yourself from them.  

I applaud your generational thinking, and hope as you do age, you will always remember the errors of the ‘era’.  Part of the problems we have today are due to the fact that the current generation has forgotten about the problems that occurred during the last generation.  Remember the phrase…history repeats itself?  This is a repeat.  The difference between now & then?? This time it’s global.

 

 

 

  • Wed, Sep 28, 2011 - 09:23pm

    #7
    tictac1

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    Follow the logic

If we abstain from buying gold because someone, somewhere might kill someone over the price of it, and that reasoning causes my family to go bankrupt, which is the greater evil?  Using the same logic, should I not buy food grown unsustainably, meat produced in unethical conditions, gasoline that surely funds terrorism at some level?  Because of the system I was born into, I cannot survive without these things.

What if I discovered a new element, located only in the jungles of South America, that somehow made fusion economically viable?  Is my discovery evil because some people down there decide to kill each other over it?  Hell, people in Oakland will kill each other over a BEER, should we bring back prohibition?  Oh wait, prohibition caused crime too.

We are all responsible for our OWN actions.  Humans have a severe problem accepting this.  Buying gold is not an INHERENTLY evil act, murder and robbery are.  In fact, it could be argued that using fiat money is inherently evil!  No one here will argue that fiat money, by itself, does not cause enormous damage, especially to the poor.

"There is no difference between a have and have not, there are both humans, the only thing seperating them is the lottery of chance and the circumstances of your life, especially in the first 2 decades."

What you are saying is that free will does not exist, we are merely animals.  If this is truly what you believe, then you have a victim mentality, and cannot expect your life to get any better.

"There is no doubt that the pursuit of gold and other precious metals/gems has extremely negative social and environmental consequences."

The love of money is the root of many evils, there is no doubt about that.  But you can’t single out one or two commodities, they can ALL be pursued to the point of destruction.  Remember the housing bubble?  Pursuit of gold did not cause that.  Yet how many bankruptcies, divorces, murders, thefts, etc. could be linked to the economic flop that the pursuit of "things we couldn’t afford" caused?

On top of all that, WHO is buying the most gold, and as a result, driving the price increase?  Here’s a hint: it ain’t CM readers.

  • Wed, Sep 28, 2011 - 10:33pm

    #8
    doorwarrior

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    There is no difference

There is no difference between a have and have not, there are both humans, the only thing seperating them is the lottery of chance and the circumstances of your life, especially in the first 2 decades.

This is the statement of someone blaming the world for their lot in life. They may both be humans but that doesn’t mean they are equal. When are people going to wake up and realize that we are not all equal  just because we were born on the same planet to the same species? I was born into poverty with coked up, abusive teenage parents in 1970. I was living in my car (a 1970 dodge monaco which I bought with my paper route money) when I was 16. I barely finished high school just so I could get into the army. After three years I got out a learned a trade, then I started a business and employ 11 people now.  It was my choices that defined me not some lottery or circumstances.

 Im 24, have been in poverty all my life, and have watched my mother work her ass off, just to be broke and unemployed with a MA in business.

I work harder than anyone I know, yet I still find myself sinking into debt quicksand that will never go away. I am a have not compared to many, I am a have compared to more, but overall I recognize that these false dichotomies are nothing but destructive beliefs.

Once again blaming the world for your problems. Make a change, make better choices do something different with your life. Just because someone has an MA or PHD or whatever other bunch of letters in front of their name is no guarantee for sucess. In todays world its a guarantee of serfdom just to repay the loans.

I have read many of your posts and I agree with about 75% of what you have to say. We do need a better way to allocate our resources. That doesn’t mean everybody should get the same share though. Our choices define who we are and the life we lead. Bemoaning your circumstances is just whining and gets you absolutely nowhere.

Rich

  • Wed, Sep 28, 2011 - 10:40pm

    #9
    heffe

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    Not supporting the systems your born into….

If we abstain from buying gold because someone, somewhere might kill someone over the price of it, and that reasoning causes my family to go bankrupt, which is the greater evil?  Using the same logic, should I not buy food grown unsustainably, meat produced in unethical conditions, gasoline that surely funds terrorism at some level?  Because of the system I was born into, I cannot survive without these things.

I never said we shouldn’t buy gold. My post was a thought on phrases like ‘haves’ and have nots’.  I see divisionary terminology within people’s thinking. We tend to seperate ourselves from others with a governing syntax, unknown to ourselves as we do it.  I do recognize we all support this destructive system whether we want to or not, but making small steps to avoid doing so will add up.  Buy local produce, eliminate unneeded purchases, drive less, etc. 

What if I discovered a new element, located only in the jungles of South America, that somehow made fusion economically viable?  Is my discovery evil because some people down there decide to kill each other over it?  Hell, people in Oakland will kill each other over a BEER, should we bring back prohibition?  Oh wait, prohibition caused crime too.

I dont like the term ‘evil’, as it doesn’t address the issue;  the root cause of these problems.  These people killing each other has its causes, and to generalize a primary cause;  scarcity, or more accurately, horrible mismanagement of scarce resources.  As for the beer example, prohibition is a backwards approach, the real goal is to eliminate the stressful societal conditions that create such despondent individuals. Better education, less demeaning social structures, and ease of access to resources will reduce crime. 

We are all responsible for our OWN actions.  Humans have a severe problem accepting this.  Buying gold is not an INHERENTLY evil act, murder and robbery are.  In fact, it could be argued that using fiat money is inherently evil!  No one here will argue that fiat money, by itself, does not cause enormous damage, especially to the poor.

‘We are responsible for our own actions’ is an interesting phrase, another governing syntax that people use to establish the certainty of their position.  What few consider is how the framework of responsibility, and actions to engage in are predetermined. Is a Mayan Chief evil for sacrificing a virgin girl to the gods?  What about cannibals?  These are beliefs, conditioned onto them through environment.  The same with fiat currency; it is a belief system, as is the monetary-market system.  We aren’t evil for supporting these systems, we are conditioned into unsustainable, destructive systems. The goal for us all is to ‘break down the wall’ as Pink Floyd would say, and seek truly objective methods of resource managment that don’t hurt others, ourselves, or our planet. Evil is meaningless to me, what I seek is root causes, and true solutions of mediation.

What you are saying is that free will does not exist, we are merely animals.  If this is truly what you believe, then you have a victim mentality, and cannot expect your life to get any better.

No I never said that ‘free will’ does not exist. In fact, ‘free will’ is yet another governing term used to sway beliefs and confirmations. Just what the hell is ‘free will’?  The word FREE means ‘of no influence’ or ‘without control or limitations’, both of which are ridiculous considering the realm of human existence. Yes, we have a certain range of variables to chose from that are predetermined through our understandings, cultural value systems, and economic structures, but free will is very limited.  What does a starving individual do when they cant get a job? 

Your free will is nothing more than purchasing power and a small framework of options. As for the claim that I ‘have a victim mentality’, yet again we see another use of terminology which governs the contemporary belief structures.  I am grateful for what I have, I work harder than anyone I know, yet I still have nothing compared to the ‘rich kids’ of my class. The ‘lottery of chance’ I was referring to is an empirically demonstrated characteristic of monetary society. If you are born poor, your chances of escaping poverty are already behind those who are born with well educated, well funded parents. And before you go rushing to throw examples of ‘rags to riches’ at me, I know it is possible, but likely when evaluated on the large scale of things?  No, not even close, a small percentage of ‘lucky winners’.

The love of money is the root of many evils, there is no doubt about that.  But you can’t single out one or two commodities, they can ALL be pursued to the point of destruction.  Remember the housing bubble?  Pursuit of gold did not cause that.  Yet how many bankruptcies, divorces, murders, thefts, etc. could be linked to the economic flop that the pursuit of "things we couldn’t afford" caused

Yet another phrase that fails to address root causes. Its not money, or the love of money thats the issue. Its how money, and more specifically, market systems are inherently destructive by their modus operandi. There are many angles to assess this self destructiveness from, as you can look at the necessity of scarce currency, the gaming strategies of business and how maintaining cost efficiency means making cuts to either human standards or environment, or how the processes monetary economies affect psychology.

To quote, Bernard Lietier, designer of the Euro Currency system, "Greed and competition are not immutable human temperament; they are in fact, created and maintained by the kind of money we are using. We can produce more than enough food to feed the world, yet there is not enough money to pay for it all. The result is that we have to fight each other to survive."

  • Thu, Sep 29, 2011 - 12:17am

    #10

    leelilly

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    Doing the Right Thing





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