The Situation in Ferguson, MO

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  • Sat, Oct 18, 2014 - 10:13am

    #121

    thc0655

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    Leak during grand jury proceedings

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/18/us/ferguson-case-officer-is-said-to-cite-struggle.html

WASHINGTON — The police officer who fatally shot Michael Brown in Ferguson, Mo., two months ago has told investigators that he was pinned in his vehicle and in fear for his life as he struggled over his gun with Mr. Brown, according to government officials briefed on the federal civil rights investigation into the matter.

The officer, Darren Wilson, has told the authorities that during the scuffle, Mr. Brown reached for the gun. It was fired twice in the car, according to forensics tests performed by the Federal Bureau of Investigation. The first bullet struck Mr. Brown in the arm; the second bullet missed.

The forensics tests showed Mr. Brown’s blood on the gun, as well as on the interior door panel and on Officer Wilson’s uniform. Officer Wilson told the authorities that Mr. Brown had punched and scratched him repeatedly, leaving swelling on his face and cuts on his neck.

This is the first public account of Officer Wilson’s testimony to investigators, but it does not explain why, after he emerged from his vehicle, he fired at Mr. Brown multiple times. It contradicts some witness accounts, and it will not calm those who have been demanding to know why an unarmed man was shot a total of six times. Mr. Brown’s death continues to fuel anger and sometimes-violent protests.

  • Tue, Oct 21, 2014 - 04:51pm

    #122

    thc0655

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    Now, opinion about leaks

http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2014/10/20/former-police-chief-speaks-on-latest-michael-brown-information-released/

Information about the Michael Brown fatal police shooting is beginning to leak out, and former St. Louis County Police Chief Tim Fitch says it’s no accident the feds are allowing the information.

Fitch discussed a New York Times article indicating, according to federal investigators, there was a struggle that led up to the fatal police shooting of Brown, with KMOX’s Mark Reardon on Monday.

Fitch calls the information from the investigation coming out as phase two – to “coordinate leaks to the media, and to start getting some of the facts out there to kind of let people down slowly,” he says. “When I say this is phase two – phase one was really Eric Holder’s announcement how they were going to basically do a complete review and take over the Ferguson Police Department.”

Fitch says he thinks the feds recognize that it’s “probably very unlikely” that there’s going to be charges against Ferguson police officer Darren Wilson.

“There was a struggle over the weapon. Law enforcement, we know that about half the officers killed every year with firearms are killed with their own,” he says. “So the fact that he didn’t have his own doesn’t mean there wasn’t a weapon there available that could be used in deadly force use.”

Fitch is a strong proponent of believing physical evidence over eye-witness evidence.

“Physical evidence has no reason to lie. It doesn’t see things differently,” he says, and it is that kind of evidence he thinks could make or break the case.

“If there was a struggle inside that car over a firearm, it sounds to me like Officer Wilson would have been justified in taking the action he did if he pulled the trigger and actually shot Michael Brown in the vehicle area,” Fitch says.

He notes that the other key piece to the investigation is what happened after Wilson and Brown were out of the police vehicle.

“If Michael Brown was truly turned around and basically charging the officer, he already went for round one fighting over his handgun. Are you going to go for round two and take the chance of losing it this time?” Fitch asks. “I think that would be a more logical explanation as to why Officer Wilson would have discharged his firearm at Michael Brown.”

He says police officers are given lawful authority to use force, and according to the law, they are under no obligation to retreat when someone resists arrest. Fitch adds that with that authority comes some gray areas.

Fitch believes the New York Times story is just a preview of what’s to come over the next few weeks.

  • Wed, Oct 22, 2014 - 01:30am

    #123

    RNcarl

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    Burn it Down

[quote=thc0655]

Law enforcement agencies are preparing for violence if Officer Wilson is not indicted by the grand jury investigating his shooting of Mike Brown.  They'd be criminally negligent if they DIDN'T do some planning and preparing.  The big question is whether someone with inside knowledge of what's going on with the grand jury "suggested" to the police that maybe now would be a good time to start planning for all contingencies (such as a "no bill" decision).

http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2014/10/08/report-missouri-authorities-planning-for-riots-if-ferguson-cop-not-indicted-in-browns-death/

They are in a very unenviable situation.  If there is a vote for no indictment, anything the police do after that will be "wrong" and plastered all over international media as such. At least, maybe we'll be spared another visit by AG Holder.

[/quote]

Most likely "they" the protestors, will "burn it down" if no charges are filed against Wilson and it sure is beginning to look like there won't be any! As long as the rioters do it to their own neighborhoods, (which rioters usually do) I don't really care. I really don't.

I am sorry, I still don't know why Wilson felt it necessary to pursue Brown. The big kid almost wrestled Wilson's gun away from him by (what we have been told) reaching through the window of Wilson's SUV. The kid was shot in the arm. He wasn't going to get far. Maybe he would have "gotten away" Wilson knew who he was. Sorry, no pass from me for Wilson going after Brown. Sure, the struggle in the car, I get it. To chase him down on foot by himself? Stupid. The close quarters of the car may have been the only thing keeping Brown from getting the upper hand over Wilson to begin with. There was only one way that encounter out in the open was going to end… and, perhaps it did indeed end exactly how Wilson wanted it to. Po-Po bravado pure and simple.

Nope, no sympathy from me for either individual in this altercation. I do have contempt for the one individual who was supposed to be  "smarter" and "in control."

C.

  • Wed, Oct 22, 2014 - 12:22pm

    #124

    Oliveoilguy

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    RN carl

The individuals now in control of the Ferguson Situation are Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton. It will be instructive to see how they deal with a no bill decision if that is indeed the outcome. These guys have it uniquely in their power to spare the city of Ferguson a lot of violence and turmoil.

  • Wed, Oct 22, 2014 - 02:07pm

    #125
    jgritter

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    Over Simplification

Carl

I think that "Let it burn" is an over simplification along the lines of "Kill them all and let God sort them out".  To lump the entire Black community into a group labeled "They" is a recipe for genocide.

John G

  • Wed, Oct 22, 2014 - 02:44pm

    #126

    thc0655

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    Courage, duty, service to society

RNCarl wrote:

I am sorry, I still don't know why Wilson felt it necessary to pursue Brown. The big kid almost wrestled Wilson's gun away from him by (what we have been told) reaching through the window of Wilson's SUV… Sorry, no pass from me for Wilson going after Brown. Sure, the struggle in the car, I get it. To chase him down on foot by himself? Stupid…  Po-Po bravado pure and simple.

It's called "courage," "duty," and "service to society."  Not every cop or soldier has it (despite the oaths, the uniforms, society's expectations), but apparently Officer Wilson does.  Officer Wilson's response putting himself in grave danger with Michael Brown is no different than a firefighter running into a burning building or a doctor/nurse volunteering to treat a patient infected with Ebola.  Those aren't stupid either, just courageous, unselfish, the call of duty.  (That's not to say there isn't a time for "tactical retreat," because there is.  I don't think this was that situation.)

I do have contempt for the one individual who was supposed to be  "smarter" and "in control."

I respect you being open and honest about your biases and values.  Most people try to disguise them and back off when called to account for them.  You've previously expressed your "contempt" (I think you also used the word "hatred") for ALL cops.  But you don't seem to have an equal contempt/hate for thugs who casually rob a tiny little Indian man in his shop, shoving him around when he tries to stop you.  You don't have contempt for a thug who attacks a police officer he's never met and tries to take his gun (presumably to kill him with it)?  OK, you DO "lack sympathy" for him.  That's something, I guess.

And worst of all, you wrote:

Most likely "they" the protestors, will "burn it down" if no charges are filed against Wilson and it sure is beginning to look like there won't be any! As long as the rioters do it to their own neighborhoods, (which rioters usually do) I don't really care. I really don't.

Your honesty is refreshing.  See how you lump all those people into one homogenous group? All those people who live in those kinds of neighborhoods are all the same to you.  They're all equally deserving of having a few in their midst burn their stores and homes to the ground.  I bet that's another way you and Officer Wilson are different.  I bet Officer Wilson knew many fine, law abiding people in Ferguson and in Mike Brown's neighborhood: black, brown, white and yellow.  And in the best tradition of law enforcement, Officer Wilson was willing to put his life on the line to protect those people from thugs like Mike Brown who make life miserable for those people in those neighborhoods.  You? You just don't care. You don't.

Thanks for sharing.

  • Wed, Oct 22, 2014 - 04:29pm

    #127

    jtwalsh

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    I have taught criminal and

I have taught criminal and constitutional law for law enforcement majors at the college level.  I always warned my students who were looking for a career in law enforcement that they would be putting themselves in an unenviable position by accepting such employment.

In my humble opinion, Americans are largely schizophrenic when it comes to law enforcement.  They want perfect protection from the bad guys.  On the other hand they want law enforcement personnel to be generally out of sight, out of mind and out of the way. What middle class person has not, secretly, or sometimes quite vocally thought:  “Don’t stop me for speeding.  Don’t give me a ticket for running that light or stop sign.  Don’t audit my tax return. Look the other way when I buy some weed.  I was only a little bit inebriated when I got behind that wheel.”

When law enforcement officers attempt to do their job they are expected to do it perfectly all the time.  No mistakes, no second guesses, no room for human error.  This attitude covers not only situations of the breaking of actual laws, but it now extends into the maze of crazy political correctness in which we have entangled ourselves. The only members of our society, outside the military, who come close to working in battlefield conditions, every day, every shift, on every patrol are expected to encounter and engage every situation with the wisdom of judges who have months to ponder and mull over the correct answer.  Officers on the line do not have months.  They are fortunate in many situations if they have seconds to make decisions which can result in death to themselves, perpetrators or innocent victims and bystanders.

There are good law enforcement officers and there are bad officers. In a prior life time I was a public defender.  I have no illusions as to how bad, or how corrupt, the police can be.   That being said there are many dedicated, hard working officers who venture into life threatening situations every day.  I am quite sure our lives would not be better if this force did not exist.

The situation in Ferguson is a tragedy on every level.  The role of the grand jury is to determine if tragedy rises to the level of criminality.  If we have reached the point where we easily scoff at jury decisions we don’t have to wait for the system to collapse.  It is gone.

  • Wed, Oct 22, 2014 - 04:37pm

    #128

    Ready

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    thc0655 wrote:Thanks for

[quote=thc0655]

Thanks for sharing.

[/quote]

I wish I could give you 10 thumbs up, except for that quoted part. I personally could have done without any of that commentary from RNCarl.  

Carl – I can only assume that were this your community you would not be so eager to watch it all burn.

 

Wow.

  • Wed, Oct 22, 2014 - 05:44pm

    #129

    thc0655

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    And the leaks just keep on coming

http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2014/10/22/new-information-released-on-michael-brown-case/

  • Wed, Oct 22, 2014 - 05:53pm

    #130

    Ready

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    Seems clear

That someone is trying to break it to us gently.

This is not going to go over well, and it will not be confined to Ferguson.





Michael Brown protesters attempt to shut down Maplewood Wal-Mart

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/protests-on-moral-monday-range-from-plaza-frontenac-to-the/article_4eb2e982-cf90-5fe9-909c-05a1592c35b0.html

too many more to list.

Viewing 10 posts - 121 through 130 (of 278 total)

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