The psychology of climate change

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  • Tue, Nov 17, 2009 - 04:13am

    #51
    Peak Prosperity Admin

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    Re: The psychology of climate change

My, but the boards are full of presumptuousness tonight.

First from r:

From your “rammed down our throat” comment I take it you are angy and I’m sorry about that.

If you take it that way, then you take it wrong.  I dont’ find anger particularly useful. I chose those words because they are an accurate description of the tactics being employed by TPTB.

No he doesn’t and he isn’t interested in learning.

And speaking of Doug, again more presumptuousness laced with arrogance. Presumptuousness to presume my motives, and/or arrogance to presume (again the presumptuousness) that anybody unwilling to accept his POV must be because of an unwillingness to learn or some other deficiency. Perhaps Doug, if you actually read my objections and tried to address them, you might be more persuasive. But instead you exhibit the trait of dismissing legitimate disagreement, which by the way, was one of my chief complaints expressed previously concerning the GW movement as a whole. You could be the poster boy for this attribute. And the condescending sarcasm didn’t help your case either.

  • Tue, Nov 17, 2009 - 04:31am

    #52
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    Re: The psychology of climate change

From Doug

This ongoing discussion paralleling scientific theory and theory in the generalized sense is misleading to the extreme.  How electricity works is still described as electrical theory.  Nuclear fission is still explained by nuclear theory.  But, do any of you doubt the existence of either of these phenomena?

A fallacious arguement to the extreme. If the theory of electricity didn’t work, I’m not forced to compromise my liberties. I could choose to buy a product based on an unproven theory or not by it. I have a choice. With AGW I don’t. Which is why, to respond again to r’s comment, I chose the phrase “rammed down our throat”. And the stakes are much higher, extremely high. Besides we know far more about those topics than we do GW.

If you hope to disprove that theory, you’re going to have to do a great deal more than play word games.  You’re going to have to come up with solid peer reviewed science.  The denialist blogosphere is notably lacking that in that commodity.

Wrong again Doug. It is your side advancing a theory, therefore it is incumbent upon your side to prove it. I need do nothing, therefore I can be lacking in nothing in this regard. Your theory doesn’t need disproof to delegitimize it. The burden is upon you to meet the very scientific standards the you claim to profess to attain that legitimacy first. It’s a burden that has yet to be met.

  • Tue, Nov 17, 2009 - 04:57am

    #53
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    Re: The psychology of climate change

The Approaching Judgment Day…Haiti a microcosm of the future ‘brave new world.’

The equivalent of 36 football fields are being stripped from the world’s forests each minute.

The total emissions from deforestation are still as great as those from all of the cars, trucks, planes, ships and trains combined worldwide.

http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/e…

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/art…

On Environmental Brink, Haiti Scrambles for a Lifeline

PORT-AU-PRINCE, Haiti — A hard rain can be deadly here.

A family of four was reported killed late last month when rushing stormwater loosened soil under their hillside house and brought the structure down on them.

The denuded slopes around this city of 2 million turn stormwater into lethal torrents. Trees, shrubs and other vegetation that anchor soil and buffer runoff are rare here. They mark private compounds of the wealthy, islands of green protected by fences and armed guards in a sea of slums that have sprawled up sandy hills as the city’s population tripled over the past 20 years.

“They are informal human settlements with very, very weak construction methods,” said Stephanie Ziebell, an aid worker with the Mission des Nations Unies pour la Stabilisation en Haiti, or MINUSTAH, the United Nations’ only peacekeeping mission in the Americas. “There’s nothing to protect them from water flooding down from the hillside.”

Haiti — the developing world’s first and oldest independent nation — is today a ward of the United Nations, dependent on foreign aid and the $612-million-a-year peacekeeping operation that only recently managed to smother the violence that has long plagued this country.

But it is violence done to the environment that is haunting Haiti now. Degradation of natural resources here is both a consequence and an amplifier of poverty and disorder. The country has become a poster child for environmental neglect, and many fear Haiti is close to total ecological collapse.

Haiti has few and weak environmental laws. Its dense population has just two small national parks where no agency protects resources. Its forests have been overharvested, its marine resources overexploited.

“The environmental degradation has gotten to such a point that there’s danger everywhere,” said Jean-Cyril Pressoir, a Haitian native and owner of a new tour company here.

But the response to the growing crisis does not involve massive World Bank-financed industrial projects that were common in the past and put wads of cash into the pockets of U.S. or European experts. Instead, money and resources are now being diverted to smaller-scale pilot projects designed mostly by Haitians themselves, with a goal of saving their country and perhaps creating a new development paradigm.

“The crucial thing, because we’re a country facing both an energy security crisis and a food security crisis, is how can we reconcile energy security and food security?” said Gael Pressoir, Jean-Cyril’s brother and founder of a new nonprofit setting out to do just that.

Haiti’s greatest challenge by far is deforestation. At the heart of the problem: the demand for charcoal.

The country’s 10 million residents meet 60 percent of their commercial and residential energy needs with charcoal. It is used in most household cooking but also runs bakeries, laundries, sugar refineries and rum distilleries.

Charcoal production is a major factor in the deforestation that experts say has felled 98 percent of Haiti’s tree cover, with the remaining 2 percent disappearing fast. While mature trees provide the best material for charcoal production, the scarcity of wood has forced people to take smaller and smaller trees and shrubs. Today people are even pulling roots to make charcoal.

Haitians are aware of the damage being done to their landscape, but they say the deforestation for charcoal persists because there are few employment opportunities. About 80 percent of the population survives on less than $2 per day in income; the country ranks 149 out of 182 nations on the Human Development Index, a comparative measure of the quality of life.

But that drive to extract more and more from diminishing resources is only adding to the Haitians’ problems.

….

…..Cultivating jatropha on barren hillsides and a variety of other targeted reforestation efforts can, over time, go far in reducing Haiti’s extreme vulnerability to the storms and powerful hurricanes that routinely sweep over the nation. But ultimately, experts say the nation has to find an alternative or outright replacement for charcoal, the dominant source of energy here.

With any reforestation campaign, you have to find first a solution for energy,” Perera said.

…..Though no one has been willing to admit it publicly, U.N. officials and locals both quietly speculate that Haiti could easily become another Somalia if MINUSTAH troops and police left today. But all acknowledge that they cannot stay forever, either, meaning that eventually the Haitian leadership will have to step up and assume the responsibilities that it has shirked for decades.

 

 

Haitian View

A Brave New World

…And surely, if we are anywhere near the truth as regards these preliminary observations concerning the current crisis – with situation and prospect as guidelines – we would have to suggest that the time is now for the Bahamian people to come together with a view towards agreeing on some fundamentals that should matter to us all.

And since context matters so very much, some attention must be given to how things are going in the United States of America, since these things evidently do play a major role in driving how things go down not only in the Bahamas, but also as they affect things in our region, inclusive of Haiti and the Cuba.

As regards relevant context for the discussion that follows, take note that new information reaching us suggests that the crisis facing the United States has – as should be expected – differential impacts as regards this or that state or region.

Here we note some of what Patrick Martin has had to say on the matter in question.

As Martin concludes, “Two reports made public Wednesday underscore the colossal dimensions of the social and financial crisis in the United States. One study warns that California and nine other US states face near-term budget crises that will force mass layoffs of public employees and cuts in schools and other services. The other forecasts that as many as one million jobs will be at risk when the full impact of the economic crisis hits state governments early next year.

“The study released by the Pew Center on the States is entitled, “Beyond California: States in Fiscal Peril.” It examines nine states that face California-style budget crises, including Arizona, Florida, Illinois, Michigan, Nevada, New Jersey, Oregon, Rhode Island and Wisconsin.

“The ten states, counting California, are in every region of the country: the Northeast, the South, the Midwest, the Pacific Northwest, and nearly the entire Southwest. They have a combined population of more than 100 million people and account for one-third of total US economic output.

“According to the study, the same pressures—the worldwide recession and the collapse of the housing bubble—that forced California to issue IOUs to state employees and suppliers during the summer “are wreaking havoc in a number of states, with potentially damaging consequences for the entire country.”

“In four of the states, California, Nevada, Arizona and Florida, the housing collapse has had the biggest impact. New Jersey’s budget deficit is largely a byproduct of the 2008 collapse on Wall Street, which accounts for one-third of the state’s economic activity. The other five states have been devastated primarily by the collapse of manufacturing industries…”

In rounding out his report, Martin notes that, “Pew reviewed state statistics available July 31, 2009, so that further economic deterioration, particularly in industrial states like Michigan and Illinois, is not accounted for. Overall, the combined budget deficits for all 50 states were $162 billion in July, and that figure is estimated to have since risen by another $16 billion.”

Evidently, this new information provides little hope to people in the Bahamas and their counterparts throughout the region.

So, the inevitable now looms.

Whether we wish to accept or reject the facts as they are is today irrelevant to the palpable reality on the ground – a situation that speaks to the conclusion that things are tight now; they will get tighter and that today’s youthful Bahamian has a monumental set of tasks on their hands.

That task will involve a concerted effort to re-think the very foundations of their Bahamas, their region and their understanding of their place in what is turning out to be in the borrowed words of the bard, a ‘brave new world’.

Indeed, as distances shrink and as communications become more and more ubiquitous, workers of the world will – like finance – reach that point where they become truly conscious not only of their chains, but also of their capacity to help build a more just world order.

 

  • Tue, Nov 17, 2009 - 09:30am

    #54
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    Re: The psychology of climate change

[quote=earthwise]

EXACTLY WHAT is it thet YOU expect the scintists to discover?

Truth.[/quote]

 

That’s the trouble…….  you can’t handle the truth…..

Mike

  • Tue, Nov 17, 2009 - 09:54am

    #55
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    Re: The psychology of climate change

Looks like my deforestation quip hit a nerve with Xray. Take a look DTM.

 

If you cut or overprice electricity to the masses.  They will cut and burn trees for heat and cooking.  Not only does this add CO2 and smoke to the atmosphere (smoke is a warming debate in and of itself — does it reflect more solar energy away from earth than it absorbs for warming?) and it also removes a major CO2 sink from the environment.

Some of the back to nature woodstove types leave a huge carbon footprint.  But you know what?  It’s a moot point. There won’t be anyone to monitor the environment, once Goldman, Morgan, and the Fed finish us off.

  • Tue, Nov 17, 2009 - 11:57pm

    #56
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    Re: The psychology of climate change

Damnthematrix laments that the turn out to the global warming party was low.

When hundreds of young people showed up on the anointed day I thought – where are the rest? If this is the issue, where is the mass demonstration of dissent?

At least he’s not alone. Even…..

Mr Gore devotes a chapter to analysing why climate change has failed to prompt a greater public outcry.

Maybe it’s because they’ve taken notice of things like this: 

http://theresilientearth.com/?q=content/himalayan-glaciers-not-melting

Himalayan Glaciers Not Melting

The report by Vijay Kumar Raina, formerly of the Geological Survey of India, seeks to correct widely spread reports that India’s 10,000 or so Himalayan glaciers are shrinking rapidly in response to climate change. It’s not true, Raina says. The rumors may have originated in the Asia chapter of the U.N. Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change’s (IPCC’s) 2007 Working Group II report, which claims that Himalayan glaciers “are receding faster than in any other part of the world and…..

………Even when faced with data showing the errors in their work, the IPCC seems incapable of admitting they were wrong. Typically, Murari Lal, chair of the Climate, Energy and Sustainable Development Analysis Centre in New Delhi and coordinating lead author of the 2007 IPCC report’s Asia chapter, rejects the notion that IPCC was off the mark on Himalayan glaciers. Even more petulantly, IPCC chairman Rajendra Pachauri accused the Indian environment ministry of “arrogance” for its report claiming there is no evidence that climate change has shrunk the Himalayan glaciers. Unfortunately for the climate change alarmists the truth is out, the glaciers of the Himalayas remain safely frozen and won’t be disappearing anytime soon.

And this:

http://www.john-daly.com/hockey/hockey.htm

 

The `Hockey Stick’:

A New Low in Climate Science

 

 

 

This account of climatic history contains two serious difficulties for the present global warming theory.

    1) If the Medieval Warm Period was warmer than today, with no greenhouse gas contribution, what would be so unusual about modern times being warm also?

    2) If the variable sun caused both the Medieval Warm Period and the Little Ice Age, would not the stronger solar activity of the 20th century account for most, if not all, of the claimed 20th century warmth?

Both propositions posed a serious threat to continued public acceptance of the climate modeller’s catastrophic view of future climate. This is because new findings in solar science suggested that the sun, not greenhouse gases, were the primary driver of 20th century climate trends.

Or maybe this:

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fpcomment/archive/2009/10/01/ross-mckitrick-defects-in-key-climate-data-are-uncovered.aspx

Defects in key climate data are

uncovered

 

 

 

  • Wed, Nov 18, 2009 - 01:09am

    #57
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    Re: The psychology of climate change

[quote=earthwise]

Damnthematrix laments that the turn out to the global warming party was low.

http://theresilientearth.com/?q=content/himalayan-glaciers-not-melting

Himalayan Glaciers Not Melting

 [/quote]

You are one SCARY son of a gun……  and you should change your name, because earthwise you are absolutely NOT!  For starters, that party you mention?  Not me, I’ve got no idea what you’re talking about…..

And re the melting glaciers, here’s where you can see it happening with your own eyes…:

  • Wed, Nov 18, 2009 - 01:51am

    #58
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    Re: The psychology of climate change

 

And re the melting glaciers,……

Thers’s a larger point to be seen here, namely the malfeasance on the part of the GW advocates who even after shown their errors, refused to correct them! Science?

  • Wed, Nov 18, 2009 - 02:53am

    #59
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    Re: The psychology of climate change

Fortunately peak oil trumps AGW … problem solved, subject closed!

  • Wed, Nov 18, 2009 - 02:58am

    #60
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    Re: The psychology of climate change

If only it was that simple…..  PO decimates our effluent lifestyle.  GW has the potential to exterminate us.

Spot the difference…..

Mike

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