The psychology of climate change

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  • Mon, Nov 09, 2009 - 11:14pm

    #21
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    Re: The psychology of climate change

docmims

[quote]However, I think the people running the environmental show have another agenda for political power and environmental issues are just their excuse.  I know you are genuinely concerned about the environment, and so am I.  But I”m not give up my freedom to algore and the world bank bunch over it.  Sorry.[/quote]

I have never understood the obsession with Gore.  I don’t care if he’s Satan return to earth, he got the science about right and is one a few who are still fighting the fight.  Forget him, pay attention to the science.  Come up with solutions.  Push for them.  Unless you’re in complete denial, you have to be aware that there are some pretty bad probable outcomes, and a certain amount of warming is already programmed into the system.

Doug

  • Tue, Nov 10, 2009 - 12:15am

    #22
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    Re: The psychology of climate change

Well a couple dozen nuclear plants making electricity for electric cars would really cut our CO2 output, but I just don’t get the sense that the environmental crowd is embracing that idea.  Also the get back to nature wood stove crowd is not helping lower our carbon footprint either.

I suppose you could say that the trees used for firewood are just recycling the CO2 in the atmosphere, but so is oceanic algae.  Yes the climate may change and some rainforests will become deserts, but some deserts will become rainforests.  The main determinate is Ocean current shifts from solar energy, not atmospheric temperature from heat retention by CO2.  I think atmospheric particulates (stratospheric in particular) are much more of an issue in climate change  than CO2.

  • Tue, Nov 10, 2009 - 12:42am

    #23
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    Re: The psychology of climate change

[quote=Damnthematrix]

If in 20 years time, when it will all be too late, we who push this are proved 100% right as I fully expect, will we be allowed/able to line all you deniers up against the wall and get our pound of flesh for the crimes you will have committed against the Earth and all its creatures (including us)?

[/quote]

Truly unbelievable . . . Is this the emotional endpoint of your viewpoint, DTM?  To hate your fellow man enough that you would murder him?  All I can do is shake my head . . .

  • Tue, Nov 10, 2009 - 01:14am

    #24
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    Re: The psychology of climate change

[quote=strabes]

Sure…feel free to shoot me…if that’s the way humans think nowadays I don’t care to be here.  

[/quote]

What have we come to?

  • Tue, Nov 10, 2009 - 01:36am

    #25
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    Re: The psychology of climate change

Strabes.  I think you have found that environmentalism is a form of religion.  Do not challege the dogma of global warming or you will be tortured and killed by the enlightened defenders of the earth.  Tongue out

Way back when, I got my undergraduate degree in Marine Science.  I studied under a Swedish guy who had helped to prove that sand drifted down the coast of North America from north to south(which is true).  He also presented a paper with very elegant calculations about where one of our local Islands in South Carolina was going to split in two due to rising sea levels, opening a new coastal inlet.  Every huge storm he would drive by to see if his prediction had come true. I wish I had bought those lots back then very cheaply due to his dire prediction, because they are still there 35years later.  I would have made several million fiat dollars.Tongue out

BTW matrix.  I am a big environmentalist at heart.  I just use some common sense and don’t believe everything a grant writing scientist tells me..

 

  • Tue, Nov 10, 2009 - 01:38am

    #26
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    Re: The psychology of climate change

edit: sorry double clicked on post

  • Tue, Nov 10, 2009 - 01:51am

    #28
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    Re: The psychology of climate change

[quote=Damnthematrix]

1) Because it’s the

If in 20 years time, when it will all be too late, we who push this are proved 100% right as I fully expect, will we be allowed/able to line all you deniers up against the wall and get our pound of flesh for the crimes you will have committed against the Earth and all its creatures (including us)?

[/quote]

depends on whether you want the pound barbecued or raw?  how about witches? can we burn some witches too?  can we torture some hunters for crimes again the earths creatures?  those darn christians too, always keeping the muslim man down.  who else can we hate?  get a life dude.

  • Tue, Nov 10, 2009 - 01:59am

    #27
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    Re: The psychology of climate change

 

 I came across global warming while I was a physics student in 1990.. then I took it seriously, but sceptically….

 Now… my best guess is that it’s a cover story.. for peak oil..      ie  an anthropogenic red herring… ™

 So while I have huge problems with the “science”… (always sceptical and open… never authoritative and “settled”)

 I have no problems whatsoever with the solutions…. because they match (*) the solutions to peak oil and sustainability…..

 * —  Except for carbon capture.. if I’m right.. that’s basically irrelevant… not a terrible idea…. just not pressing and urgent..  I hope.

 

 

 If I go into totally paranoid mode… then maybe peak oil is anthropogenic and managed… but maybe for noble reasons….   ( we certainly have far more control over oil extraction than we do climate. )

 

 

  • Tue, Nov 10, 2009 - 03:08am

    #29
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    Re: The psychology of climate change

[quote=Damnthematrix]

1) Because it’s the one used by the control freaks to push their agenda toward global governance

Strabes, THAT is a load of utter nonsense!!!!!!!  I for one am TOTALLY against global governance, and so are all my acquaintances who are scared shiyless about the consequences of what we are doing to the climate.  It is the likes of YOU who is fear mongering, making people believe that “fixing” (which now can’t even be done IMO) the problem is somehow going to destroy society and civilisation, when in fact the morons in charge are doing this just fine AND screwing the climate at the same time…….!!!!!! [/quote]

Mike,

I’m not nearly as convinced as Strabes is of the fallacy of AGW.  I certainly find it believable that there’s an anthropogenic component to the problem. To me that seems consistent with all the other environmental havoc humans are universally acknowledged to be causing. I’m also not quite as confident as Strabes in making pronouncements about a specific agenda in the offing, either (I always have trouble confidently distinguishing stupidity and unintended consequences from conspiracy), but to his larger point, that this is ultimately about control freakery and a larger agenda that has nothing to do with the well being of the planet, I agree completely. 

I would assume that 99% of the people worried about climate change are well intentioned, often well informed, and have good reason to be alarmed. The problem is, they’re not in charge.  The people in charge are the people you refer to as the “morons,” who have been destroying society and civilization. That’s what worries people like Strabes and me.  And if you believe your own words – that “fixing” the problem “now can’t even be done,” then what’s their motivation? Doesn’t it make sense to be questioning their agenda?  

[quote]

If in 20 years time, when it will all be too late, we who push this are proved 100% right as I fully expect, will we be allowed/able to line all you deniers up against the wall and get our pound of flesh for the crimes you will have committed against the Earth and all its creatures (including us)?

[/quote]

Don’t blame us. We’re not the problem. Why should it matter whether we acknowledge AGW or not? All of us here are among the very few who are actually proposing meaningful action which could mitigate climate change and resource depletion, regardless of our position on AGW. We’re the ones who want to get rid of the debt based monetary system, which obviously is at the very core of our hopeless addiction to exponential growth. Do you think that’s going to be on the table at Copenhagen next month? … Of course not. Growth is their top priority. They want to have growth AND climate change mitigation at the same time – a perfect recipe for Jevon’s paradox. They will accomplish nothing.

Greg

 

  • Tue, Nov 10, 2009 - 03:43am

    #30
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    Re: The psychology of climate change

The only way to do something locally about pollution in general is to return to a more primitive state.  Turn off the cars, close down the factories and power stations.

 

The forest precedes man, the desert follows him.

Under the pavement, the beach!

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