The Definitive Tactics Thread

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  • Wed, Jul 11, 2012 - 03:18am

    #321

    Aaron M

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    ECQC, IEK/MUC

Joe,

Awesome! I’m glad to hear you took the class and got a lot out of it. 
There’s absolutely nothing like Force on Force to open your eyes, and ECQC is an absolute killer in terms of showing you the weak spots in your armor.

With that in mind, I caught this video on ModernSurvivalist.com – FerFAL’s blog. It covers some of the issues confronted by ECQC – to include In extremis knife, and managing unknown contacts. 

WARNING – EXTREMELY VIOLENT CONTENT – VIEWER DISCRETION

There are a few major lessons to be learned from this, including some very important “pre-game” thinking on how you should approach someone with a knife. ECQC is a great example of how this can play out – a blade in confined spaces is one thing, but the man in this video shows that distance can be covered very quickly, and a firearm may not be your best option. 

Original discussion:
http://www.themodernsurvivalist.com/archives/1779

Cheers,

Aaron

  • Wed, Jul 11, 2012 - 04:28am

    #322
    joesxm2011

    joesxm2011

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    knife vs gun

The guy that organized the ECQC class was giving a Self Defense Law Seminar and I went to assist.  I brought my blue gun and we demonstrated the Tueller Drill.

For those who might not be familiar, Dennis Tueller was a police trainer and he speculated what might happen if a guy with a knife, 21 feet away attacked a guy with a concealed pistol.  The long and short of it is that it takes about 1.5 to 2 seconds to run with the knife and about the same time to draw from concealment.

When we did the demo, I made a point of watching the guy that was talking about the Tueller Drill so that I would only see the attacker out of the corner of my eye.  When he attacked with the rubber knife I managed to draw to compressed ready when he was about three feet away – if I had shot him he would have had enough momentum to still run into me and strike with the knife.

The interesting thing was that even with this controlled amount of stress I remember worrying that I would muff the grabbing of my shirt in front of the class.  The next thing that I remember is being at compressed ready.  Everything in between was missing.

As I think Aaron said in another thread, chaos and stress inoculation in training is very important once you have taken care of learning the basics.  That is the main thing that I learned from taking the ECQC class.  From now on I am going to focus my training budget on realistic scenario force on force training if I can find it being offered.

  • Wed, Jul 11, 2012 - 03:47pm

    #323

    Aaron M

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    Tueller

Joe,

This is a really interesting academic concept, because it leaves out a lot of the things you mentioned in your post – momentum, explosive strength, psychological implications of being rushed, solidity of fundementals – all these things make the “race” between edged weapon and firearm a race to the bottom.

As seen in that video, 3 men were stabbed before the perp was finally stopped. One was killed.
There are a lot of extremely heavy considerations that have to be made in these types of situations, and our training and thinking should reflect this:
– A blade doesn’t require a reload
– It doesn’t have stoppages
– It doesn’t require accuracy, or an adaquate backstop.
– It changes the equation back to one of martial skill and physical prowess

So, do you stand a better chance of controlling an edged weapon with a firearm in play?
This is all part of the mentality that a firearm (Even a rifle, as seen above) is not a panacea.
It’s all mindset, skillset and tactics. That officer died because all three of the above were lacking.

Some medical proficiency is also very important. That man very likely could have been saved if a single one of those onlookers had some basic knowledge in treating trauma.

Some things to think about.
Oh, and I’m heading back to ECQC towards the end of the month – I’ll update, and hopefully have some videos/pictures/lessons learned to share!
Cheers,

Aaron
 

  • Wed, Jul 11, 2012 - 07:25pm

    #324
    joesxm2011

    joesxm2011

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    tactical medicine

Aaron,

Good luck at ECQC.  We are working to schedule another for 2013 and I definitely will go.  Hopefully a will be a little lighter and a lot stronger by then, but unfortunately not any younger 🙂

You make a good point about the need for some basic medical knowledge.  I am taking a one day “Buddy Survival” class next month.  This class was designed to teach cops how to keep their partner alive until the medics arrive.  A side benefit of the crashing economy is that LE and MIL budgets are being cut and the training company has to settle for civilian customers to fill the gap – lucky me.

We also have a former Army Special Forces guy (now reserve) who is starting up a training company in our area and who says he will be running SIM/FX scenario training in addition to live fire pistol and carbine.  He did six tours, which I find amazing.  I have met him, but not yet taken any courses.  He just got zoning approval for his building.

I am also taking a one day Wilderness Survival class this month.  It is not too hard core, but I hope it will help me get used to using some of the stuff in my emergency pack.

Focusing soley on the firearm, while necessary, is very narrow minded.  Physical fitness, improving health, learning medical, outdoor, gardening and general repair thing skills are definitely required to round out the entire package.

  • Wed, Jul 11, 2012 - 08:55pm

    #325

    Aaron M

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    18D Medical

Joe,

If you don’t mind my asking, where is this school going to be located?
Let me know when he opens, I’d love to make a trip out.
SIM/FX and Tactical Medicine don’t get mixed too commonly, and I’d love a shot at a class like that.

LMK Via PM if you’re not comfortable sharing publically. Very interested.

Cheers!
Aaron

  • Tue, Aug 14, 2012 - 04:52pm

    #326

    Aaron M

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    Awful situation

Ladies and Gents,
Here is a video of a shooting in which an officer was killed.
It’s disturbing, as usual, and contains language:

http://www.policeone.com/police-heroes/articles/5906961-Video-released-of-fatal-Ark-officer-shooting/

I’m not criticizing the officers’ actions in this situation, but this is a situational awareness issue that anyone can learn from. This is absolutely a “managing unknown contacts” problem in which the officers did not adaquately identify all parties involved and address them.

This could be applied to civilian interactions with unknown contacts as well. If you’re in a bar, or on the street and someone begins talking to you, they’re often as not accompanied by someone whether or not you see them. 

Please – be aware of your surroundings and just pay attention.
R.I.P. Officer Schmidt.
Cheers,

Aaron

  • Mon, Nov 12, 2012 - 05:06pm

    #327

    Poet

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    1989 Ash Street Shootout: Off-Duty Rangers Versus Gangstas

It was 1989.

Various neighborhood confrontations between home owner and drug dealers climaxed in a shootout between Army Rangers and gangsters. This could potentially be cross-posted also to home security, signs of law and order breakdown, etc.

Ash Street shootout: The night that changed Tacoma’s Hilltop (September 27, 2009)
Nobody died in the Ash Street shootout. That was the miracle. Ten minutes, 300 shots. Army Rangers versus gangsters. Bullet holes and broken windows. The night of Sept. 23, 1989 turned the Tacoma Hilltop into a national bulls-eye, an emblem of unrest. Bill Foulk, the retired Ranger who led a group of Army buddies in a defensive stand against the gangsters, still lives in the same house: 2319 S. Ash St. He wouldn’t leave then, though even his commanders urged him to do so. He isn’t leaving now. At 52, it amuses him to think he’s turned into the old guy on the block.
http://www.thenewstribune.com/2009/09/27/895048/ash-street-shootout-the-night.html

For those interested:

  • Here is the drug-dealing house.
  • Here is Bill Foulk’s house, which has undergone extensive renovations and is now twice as large as it was. (If you want a better view, go to the satellite view, or look from behind the parked RV).

Questions: Isn’t dry-wall easy for bullets to pass through? Isn’t this crazy? What are some good lessons on what could have been done and what could have been avoided, from long before this issue came to a climax?

Poet

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