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The Definitive Tactics Thread

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  • Tue, Jun 02, 2009 - 08:38pm

    #1

    Aaron M

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    The Definitive Tactics Thread

In the recent Podcast; "2 Beers with Steve" we got a chance to expand a little bit on the "combat triad" – a model comprised of three "legs":
1. Mindset
2. Skillset
3. Tactics

So, in the interest of examining these, and how they work, I thought we could review some case studies and discuss and hopefully expand our understanding of what these mean, how they work and fail, and what we can do to create a "balanced" and practical understanding of the combat triad.

BE ADVISED THESE VIDEOS MAY BE VERY GRAPHIC AND CONTAIN BAD LANGUAGE:

1st Video; Mindset:
Success: http://doctorbulldog.wordpress.com/2009/02/17/arizona-video-surveillance-helps-arrest-one-perp-involved-in-shootout-with-homeowner/

Failure: http://www.vladtv.com/video/3473/brutal-fight-mexican-guy-almost-kills-white-boy/
-How did this costly problem occur?

2nd Video; Skillset:
Success: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ro62xajzH8w&feature=rec-HM-r2

Failure: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VUQxncPfrM
-What happened here to make this end poorly.

3rd Video; Tactics:
Success: http://www.break.com/usercontent/2007/1/USAF-Room-Clearing-101-212475.html

Failure: http://globalgrind.com/content/5149/Akron-Ohio-Pizza-Beating/
-Discuss this guys mindset, tactics and what went wrong.

With regards to each video, I’d like to hear your comments on:
1. This level of proficiency or attitude in question.
2. The successes and failures of EACH video; even in the "success" catagory, there are oversights. What are they?
3. How can we train to overcome these failures, and build on the success?

I intentionally included videos that do not involve firearms, because firearms are not always available, and it’s very important to balance your training. Skillset itself could be broken down further into three catagories: Hand to hand, Edged weapons and Firearms. Each of these can be further broken down.

It’s extremely important to realize that a large cross section of the criminal element "looks" and "fight" like the guys in some of these videos.

Lets discuss several things that could be "sustained" in each video, and several things that could be improved.

Cheers, and enjoy the exercise.

Aaron

  • Tue, Jun 02, 2009 - 09:32pm

    #2
    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Peak Prosperity Admin

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    Re: The Definitive Tactics Thread

Aaron,

I’m delighted to see you start this thread. I will monitor it with great interest!

  • Tue, Jun 02, 2009 - 11:28pm

    #3
    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Peak Prosperity Admin

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    Re: The Definitive Tactics Thread

Woot…!

About time, now what do we kind of do with this…

Hmm…

  • Wed, Jun 03, 2009 - 12:07am

    #4
    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Peak Prosperity Admin

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    Re: The Definitive Tactics Thread

Aaron –

Glad to see the thread fire up.  This is one of my all time favorite clips.  Notice how the guy getting chased has complete control over his fighting measure.  At all times he has his back to his escape route and never lets anyone close to a grapple engagement.  He at one point takes a kick to time his opponent  – and promptly dumps the guy on his next kick with a knockout high sweep.  Then follows with a perfectly stride measured straight left for a knockout of a second opponent.

Clearly a skilled boxer – add some muay thai and this encounter would have run about 30 seconds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1Y8m-60JHQ&feature=related

  • Wed, Jun 03, 2009 - 01:27am

    #5
    Peak Prosperity Admin

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    Re: The Definitive Tactics Thread

Thank you for starting this thread. I know your emphasis is on the physical aspects of defense, but I think much of the mental approach is important for ALL aspects of preparation for the unknown, whether it’s home invasion or the sudden cessation of all public services – something I’m anticipating soon here in California.

I’ll start by commenting on the first video of the attempted home invasion. Clearly, the intended victim was well prepared. He had video surveillance, a weapon that was easily accessible and enough training to use it. There were some things that bothered me, however. First, the car containing the would be assailants went straight for the house. This means that they had either already cased the place or someone (a cleaning lady, delivery person or day laborer of some sort perhaps) had done it for them. Whoever did it missed the obvious – the video surveillance. Another possibility is that the "victim" and assailants were known to each other, and this was part of an ongoing feud of some sort. At any rate, whatever was going on definitely seemed a little fishy to me.

The more I think about it the stranger it is. Broad daylight. Brandiishing and discharging firearms in plain view. The victim was ready for them. There’s more to this than meets the eye.

The victim got off a number of shots but never hit anyone though he appeared to hit the windshield of the car a couple of times. Hard to know if this was deliberate or wild shooting. Obviously you don’t want to hit anyone in the back, since that will land you in jail even if you are defending your home. However, they all got away. I would be worried about reprisals, and probably nothing quite so blatant next time.

Whatever else, there were several of them and only one of him. I think he was lucky this time. Had the assailants had any sort of coherent plan of attack he would have probably ended up dead.

Arthur

  • Wed, Jun 03, 2009 - 01:59am

    #6
    Peak Prosperity Admin

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    Re: The Definitive Tactics Thread

[quote=Aaron Moyer]

1st Video; Mindset:

Success: http://doctorbulldog.wordpress.com/2009/02/17/arizona-video-surveillance-helps-arrest-one-perp-involved-in-shootout-with-homeowner/

Failure: http://www.vladtv.com/video/3473/brutal-fight-mexican-guy-almost-kills-white-boy/
-How did this costly problem occur?

2nd Video; Skillset:
Success: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ro62xajzH8w&feature=rec-HM-r2

Failure: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VUQxncPfrM
-What happened here to make this end poorly.

3rd Video; Tactics:
Success: http://www.break.com/usercontent/2007/1/USAF-Room-Clearing-101-212475.html

Failure: http://globalgrind.com/content/5149/Akron-Ohio-Pizza-Beating/
-Discuss this guys mindset, tactics and what went wrong.

[/quote]

1st Video’s Mindset:

  • Success: Preparation, the guy had video camera’s set up to detect possible intrusion, he was prepared, knew where his defensive weapon(s) were, used them effectively enough to enable retreat from the assailants, did not halt his defense until they have UAO (un-assed the area of operations). Tactics,were edgy though, while not on the video shown the guy did spray the opposite side of the street too, which could have cause issues for unintended targets.
  • Fail: Wow talk about overestimating your skills and underestimating your opponent. He appears to have relied on his history and appearence to be intimidating and did not consider that his opponent was a worthy adversary who was unassuming and normal. Skillset wise the guy deserved everything he got, he telegraphed the haymaker he threw, which unbalanced him and added more to the shot he took that put him down. Tactically he also made an error, he tried to end the fight in one big go without fully figuring out his opponents strengths and weaknesses.

2nd Video’s Skillset:

  • Success: Guy knows his weapon to a degree that few can master, rapid accurate fire matching full auto but with targetting. I wonder how he does with other weapons though…
  • Fail: Pimp didn’t have the skills to pay the bills, I actually think that this closely mirrors the fail in mindset, rather than develop skills that could be used to effectively defend himself, he had not done so, likely relying on his street rep. Coming up against someone with effective training was his downfall. He also telegraphed his hostile intent, and leaned forward (something that’s innate in humans is to push your face towards an aggressor), while the guy that flattened him was appearing innocuous (I laughed at the trainer since used to scratch my chin in the same type of situation to perform a roundhouse backfist, or elbow the result was identical to this result).

3rd Video’s Tactics

  • Success: Air Force Dudes, were sharp, checked door frame for possible traps before entry (or emulated using det-cord, although entry was to quick for a det-cord door entry). Clean entry covering all points, primary guy swept from the closest quadrant to the furthest quadrant, second entry swept to the next furthest quadrant, well executed, rapid entry, firearms at ready position but not in firing except on entry, final guy was rear guard, at close which was quick all possible threat quadrants were covered by overlapping fields of fire, except rear guard, which was a potentially small attack angle anyway. Only thing I can complain about is they should have been lower (not standing) once they reached their firing positions to get better cover from the building they entered. Although if this was a terrorist house clearing then they likely wouldn’t have that cover in the room they entered.
  • Fail: Rule #1 is if you think there is going to be trouble, don’t go there, rule #2 is if you think trouble is developing leave in an orderly fashion, rule #3 is if you missed rules 1 & 2 leave at a run. He ignored all of these rules and could easily have left. He wasn’t paying attention to the situation developing as he was on his phone, he then acted aggressively to the woman who was causing a ruckus, without realizing that she had a big boyfriend who then got involved, then he appeared beligerent to the boyfriend, finally he wasn’t looking when the first punch was thrown. Even after he had acted aggressively towards the girlfriend, he could still have bailed out quickly, and tried to avoid the situation. Situational awareness complete fail.
  • Wed, Jun 03, 2009 - 02:05am

    #7
    Peak Prosperity Admin

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    Re: The Definitive Tactics Thread

Mindset

Success: This guy was obviously well-prepared and had already thought through the defensive measures necessary. He had the goods and was prepared to use them without hesitation. He didn’t call for help or try to negotiate, he just got down to business. He also got everything recorded on tape, covering his ass just in case there was any legal ramifications.

Drawbacks: He might not be that skilled with his firearms… even if he intentionally missed the assailants, several of his shots went wild (across the street, into the neighbors yard). Also, IMO, he was using the wrong weapon… shotgun is much more effective in home invasion scenarios, especially against multiple assailants and it would have minimized some of the collateral damage that could occur in a neighborhood.

Failure: This guy was all talk, no walk. He was hyping himself up during the interview, talking smack about what a bad ass he was. Real bad asses are pretty quiet, they don’t have much to prove with words and posturing (like the hispanic guy). The guy was overconfident and seriously underestimated his opponent… he went charging in and got his ass kicked. He relied too heavily on his speed and big swing.

Skillset

Success: Definitely has spent a lot of time practicing and honing his skill with the weapons. Obvious familiarity with the workings of the weapon and the gear… to include customization. The best weapon and gear in the world is useless if it isn’t right/comfortable for you.

Drawbacks: If his special competition weapon wasn’t available, would he be able to use another as effectively…. that’s a big problem with specialization. Basic assumption is that nothing will go wrong with the weapon or ammo… at those speeds, a misfire or hotload could be a serious disaster. The target isn’t shooting back, and conditions are optimum… who knows how good this guy would be in a live fire situation in the dark, rain, mud, just woken or without sleep for days.

Failure: The pimp did not have the level of skill that his opponent did. As far as I can tell, the pimp probably didn’t have any real fighting skills other beating on his ho’s. Not only was this a skillset failure, but also a mindset failure… he completely underestimated his opponent trying to be a bad ass.

Tactics

Success: All directions covered, inspected entry before advancing, man advancing covered, good communication.

Drawbacks: Relied too heavily on gear and gear might have been inadequate… if there really was a terrorist in the building, there could be explosives/biologicals. Should have been quieter or used hand signals… screaming out your position and status is a great way to let the enemy know you’re coming, where you are, and how many of you are there.

Failure: Dude was not aware of danger potential and additional threats/combatants (i.e. was anyone dangerous with the loudmouthed bitch?). Even after the big guy stepped in to stand up for his woman, the guy kept interacting with the yappy chick, even to the point of turning his back on the big guy. This guy obviously had zero awareness of who the real threat in the situation was, nor did he attempt to reach a safer location/position when the situation got hinky. 

  • Wed, Jun 03, 2009 - 02:29am

    #8
    Peak Prosperity Admin

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    GET TRAINING!!!!!!

I copied this post of mine from The Definitive Firearms Thread because I thought it to be that important. It’s this noob tactical shooter’s first experience with tactical firearm use. That said….

———————————–

OK. First I want to disclaim some stuff before I talk about what I did tonight.

I own a dozen or so firearms, all calibers. I’ve put tens of thousands of rounds downrange.

I am an avid hunter. I am used to guns.

I’m a top notch shooter at the public shooting range. 1" groupings with regularity.

In fact, I am a GREAT shooter at the public range.

Now…

I joined IDPA last week and went to my first tactical drills session. Instructions from how to draw to stances, aiming, situational awareness, ect..

I realized that I suck. I mean, I suck REALLY badly.

I’m a great target range shooter, but..

start adding in moves, thinking on the fly, drawing, retreat, ect..

and I figure that without training my chances against a typical thug in a firefight are 50:50. (still better than being unarmed and letting a crazed armed intruder decide for me what those odds will be).

I don’t like those odds.

Folks. Tactical weapons use is INFINITELY more difficult than shooting at a bullseye. Then again, Gungnir and Aaron said that pages ago.

Trust me, they are right. Get out there. Join IDPA or hire a defensive firearms tutor, enroll in a hands-on course. But get out there.

It left me shaken at how great a shooter I am and how crapper a fighter I discovered myself to be.

  • Wed, Jun 03, 2009 - 02:49am

    #9
    Peak Prosperity Admin

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    Re: The Definitive Tactics Thread

Pete,

Like they always say, knowing you have a problem is half the battle. You learned a lot by finding out the difference between target shooting and tactical situations. At least you were smart enough to find out before you needed to know. A lot of (dead) people didn’t.

After watching the videos Aaron posted, it also made me realize that tactical awareness is critically important. I hope I have the time to attend enough training classes so that I can be smarter than deader!

Kudos to Aaron for bringing this critically important information to those of us who had their heads in the sand. I’m struggling to get mine out now.

  • Wed, Jun 03, 2009 - 03:03am

    #11
    Peak Prosperity Admin

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    Re: The Definitive Tactics Thread

Sam. Tonight could have been a lifesaver.

See, at the target range the .45 is no problem. I take my time releasing the safety and then lock on. Also, I don’t have to swing that big gun around.

Aaron did me a HUGE favor pushing this issue. Folks, I don’t want to come across as a bragadocious ass but I am a dead-eye target shooter.

And against ANY of those IDPA regulars in combat (assume one of them went insane, LOL) I’d have been dropped in less than a second.

Do NOT become overconfident thinking that you’re safe because you have a firearm.

You’re not. Don’t find out the hard way. Give it a go and see how much harder tactical shooting is. Remember, it’s not a cap gun so when you bandy that thing about you’re completely aware that one wrong move might blow your foot off. One safety failure and you might shoot your neighbor standing next to you. Things go quick, real quick, and you’d better be able to react instinctively.

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