Stay put or move?

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  • Sat, Dec 13, 2008 - 04:37am

    #11

    Keith Wilson

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    Re: Stay put or move?

Our first wet slushy mucky snowfall out here on the west coast today.   The mexico trip is a vacation, and an opportunity for my kids to see more of the world, and I was really hoping to be gone before this miserable, cold, dark valley got snowy too.  Guess I was too slow.  As much as I am looking forward to spending a couple months catching up on my reading list with my toes in the sand, I am finding both the big picture, and my personal, predicaments quite depressing tonight.

So in answer to your lyrics Ron:

When I try to get through,
On the telephone to you,
There’ll be nobody home.

Great album!  I’m gonna play that one tonight, and maybe crack a bottle of Old No. 7 and work on the Numb part too… Wink

Keith

  • Sat, Dec 13, 2008 - 09:04am

    #12
    GDon

    GDon

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    Re: Stay put or move?

Whether this topic is viewed as a positive or negative is truly a matter of perspective, and I’ll put some of the former at work here –

Because my business and professional life have been focused in the mining and resource sectors for the last 30 years, it has afforded me an opportunity to travel out of the US pretty extensively, including Canada, Australia, S America, Central America &, Mexico, Scandinavia, Europe, Mideast, China, and Africa.

Even if one isn’t thinking about a permanent move, a short-term work assignment might be enough time to "weather the storm" so to speak, and can be a very positive experience.

Also, I would recommend a visit to the Soveriegn Society investment newsletter:

http://www.sovereignsociety.com/

They also have a section on temporary relocations and/or repatriations, which can provide ideas for locations around the world.

So – it is true enough that the rapid political and economic changes unfolding and ahead for the western world appear  overwhelming to the downside. 

However, depression and a dour attitude is counterproductive to our abilities to think rationally and make necessary value judgements and potentially large-impact decisions, particularly WRT regarding where one chooses to call "home" (keep in context, that in the broadest sense, you are just a temporary "visitor" on the planet after all…)

Ultimately, it’s been my experience that people everywhere, really do want the same basics – health, prosperity and happiness.

Further, it is easy to highly underestimate your own ability to assimilate to your surroundings, regardless where you may be.  I’ve almost always found it to be an exhilirating and positive experience.   While it can initially be slightly disorienting  (particularly with language barriers), the brain establishes a rapid learning "soak rate" during that period of travel (at least for me). 

It’s also been my experience that there is little substitute for actually travelling and being in the context of a different country and new surroundings – books, video, internet, etc., really can’t provide the gestalt which exists by "being there". 

That said, there are can indeed be striking cultural differences, including differences WRT life rewards and risks, so everyone may have different takes on locales, etc.   

While I do mainatain a philosophical position that America’s founders truly did achieve a perigee of individual freedom trended from the Enlightenment, and made the best human effort at putting the individual in heavy balance against the encroachments of government, an honest assessment is that the weak links have been strongly exploited, and in an accelerated fashion.

The toughest part about the current economic and political climate is, I think, how to balance optimism for my children and their future (teens/young adults), while presenting a realistic overview of the changes which are occuring.    As others have noted on this site, each individual achieves an understanding at their own rate (and that includes spouses BTW….)

In any case, I’ve also had some opportunity to travel with them as well, and again, a very positive expansion of their (and my) awareness.

If you can at all afford it, even if travelling just for the experience to "check it out",  it can instill one’s internal optimism from within a pessimistic world and time period. 

It will confirm that there is much to learn, and, as Chris points out in the CC, it is truly an exciting time to be alive.

 

  • Sat, Dec 13, 2008 - 12:53pm

    #13

    scotthw

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    Re: Stay put or move?

[quote=radiance]

… and it is all so surreal. A lyric from Pink Floyd now runs through my mind "is anybody out there."

Ron 

[/quote]

 

You gave me my chuckle for the morning – I have been pondering some of the songs from "Momentary Lapse of Reason"… only the moment is going to be VERY long.

Scott

  • Sat, Dec 13, 2008 - 06:49pm

    #14

    krogoth

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    Re: Stay put or move?

[quote=GDon]

Whether this topic is viewed as a positive or negative is truly a matter of perspective, and I’ll put some of the former at work here –

[/quote]

I look at is as positive, because you can still leave the United States if necessary. It becomes negative when that freedom is ripped from America.

 

 

  • Sat, Dec 13, 2008 - 10:18pm

    #15

    WhoKnew

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    Re: Stay put or move?

I am somewhat lucky to have a choice between living in the USA or Europe (probably England). It scares me to think about what is heading our way and the question is where will my family be best served.

For now Ive decided the US. I have in the last 2 yrs gone from an ardent anti gun stance to a wholeheartedly pro gun stance. I have armed myself to the teeth and got a few neighbors to do the same. We have built some decent food reserves in a nearby rented unit which we will remove if it looks like TSHTF.

Still if things really do go down the drain we will have a lot of angry armed people to deal with and possibly angry armed former service personel all out to save their lives. These are very troubling times, my wife cant believe what I’ve said we need to plan for could happen in the USA so getting her to move (not to the UK but anywhere) is very difficult.

The UK while having a LOT less weapons also has a lot less ways to provide for its population than the USA does.

Being in Thailand on a farm sounds very nice about now, but bear in mind this will be a global catastrophe populations will migrate to find food so Thailand would be invaded at some point.

  • Sat, Dec 13, 2008 - 10:52pm

    #16

    krogoth

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    The War for Triscuits and Twinkies

Well, basically America in the future will be what’s happening in Greece right now with guns. Only Americans will be shooting each other for boxes of Triscuits or Twinkies.

As for your invasion theory of Thailand or other places to go, how or what do you think thin invasion will be? Will it be a new army called the "peoples food liberation army of former American’s" or PFLAA?

How will they do this masterful invasion of Thailand? By ship? Will they arm themselves, commandeer a Navy ship and start blasting away at Thailand? So funny! Mostly everyone will starve before "invasions" for food will exist. You will be at best stuck in whatever country, with food supplies gone or scarce, unable to travel outside by plane or ship with no gas for anything. And then you will simply just starve. Read up on how long adults can survive without food and water, then think about children and the elderly.

The only people fighting in America will be internally, and they will be fighting the farmers in massive gun-battles over 10 acres of potatoes or something. The worst it will get for America is maybe an invasion of Canada or Mexico, or maybe Canada or Mexico invading America for food. Arm up and get your guns ready, and thanks for the hilarious post!

 

 

  • Sat, Dec 13, 2008 - 11:20pm

    #17

    Damnthematrix

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    Re: I wish I had your choices…

Too cold?  Too close to the USA?

I’d be inclined to Cuba if they’ll have you…  at least they already know how to live sustainably, and they have one of the world’s best health system.

I’d consider New Zealand, and would in fact move there myself were it not for too many family ties. 

  • Sat, Dec 13, 2008 - 11:31pm

    #18

    DrKrbyLuv

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    Panama…Costa Rico…or my wife

My wife so far has decided we aren’t leaving the country. I am very interested in Panama and have been pleading for her to go take a look. We have two daughters and other family and the tougher things might become, she is all the more insistent that we stay close. So much for my male vanity in thinking I run this family.

Here’s an interesting link for those who might be interested in what Panama has to offer:

Panama…the land of opportunity

  • Sat, Dec 13, 2008 - 11:38pm

    #19

    krogoth

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    Re: Panama…Costa Rico…or my wife

Panama is an excellent choice. You could raid the ships as they go through the canal when the food apocalypse starts.

 

 

  • Sun, Dec 14, 2008 - 10:18pm

    #20

    WhoKnew

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    Re: Stay put or move?

Krogoth,

 Sorry let me dumb it down a bit. Im going to assume that you know Thailand isnt an island, all this talk of using ships to attack Thailand made me think perhaps you arent that good at geography.

I didn’t mean an invasion by an trained army, I did point out that people migrate to find food in order to survive. Look at Africa for multiple examples.

So what I said above was that there will be human migration/invasion. The point being if there are food shortages in any country, farms will be attacked and thus while a farm in Thailand may sound nice it wont be safe if/when tshtf. I do agree with your assessment of Greece/USA gun battles for triscuits.

 

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