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Stay put or move?

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  • Fri, Dec 12, 2008 - 10:18pm

    #1
    Brainless

    Brainless

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    Stay put or move?

One of those difficult decision is wether to stay where you live now or move to ‘greener pastures’.

In my case it is a choice between Thailand and The Netherlands.

In both countries i have family and i find it much easier to prepare for unforeseen things in Thailand. If you think about the most essentials you always arrive at the food and energy situation.

For Thailand food seems so much more easy. I have land there of around 11000 m2 full with coconut trees, family has ricefields of around 30000m2. Lots of stuff can be grown. Tropical fruits grow quickly, patatos, rice, fish are abundant. Thailand is a major food exporter so chances of a shortage are slim.

Energy in Thailand is also easier. You don’t need heating, airconditioning is a luxury you can live without easily. Cooking gas might be a problem. Some solarpanels for waterpump or some lights.

Actually not much would be different in Thailand when there is a total collapse of the western countries. sure exporters will be making no more money, but nobody will really suffer. I was there when they had a financial breakdown in 1997. Most people just went back to their villages and started helping their family with farming. Nobody died of hunger. 

In the Netherlands i would not have a clue where to start. I live practically on the beach so i could use wind for energy. Now it is not allowed of course to setup a generater for your own electricity and a building permit is out of the question.

Growing food in an appartment is also impossible. Agricutural land is not for sale or rent. Moving to a more agricultural area would be nice if we had something like that.

And let us not forget about winter, they are cold and long. Fortunately it is a little tempered by having a large body of water nearby, it does not get that cold. But nevertheless heating will be a big problem. Multiple layers of clothing can keep you warm, but is it warm enough?

My thought until now was, if i can not sustain myself and family in The Netherlands i just go to Thailand. But even that can be a problem. Tickets probably not available, or when you buy them now they might be cancelled. We travel to Thailand every year for a few months so buying tickets in advance would not be money thrown away.

I would like to be prepared, but honestly preparing yourself when so much is against you is rather difficult. I estimate the changes of a ‘simpler society’ around 5-10%. But i feel that this percentage is a high enough to start preparing.

Anybody else in this kind of situation, i would like to hear your feelings and opinions.

 

 

  • Fri, Dec 12, 2008 - 11:21pm

    #2
    radiance

    radiance

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    Re: Stay put or move?

The fabric of society and the politics of the nation are important. If the leaders of the nation take your resources, what good are they? All the assets are worthless without an intact government acting in your interest. America has abundance but our leaders are at best self-centered thieves seeking to kill seek and destroy. Oh but with smiling faces. Wolves in sheep’s clothing. I suggest Thailand.

Ron

  • Fri, Dec 12, 2008 - 11:35pm

    #3

    Keith Wilson

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    I wish I had your choices…

I personally would find this a no-brainer situation for me. I’d be gone to Thailand in a heartbeat. 

Not because it’s Thailand mind you, but for all the reasons you listed.  It seems to me that you have laid out your argument for leaving the Netherlands already, and it is good and sound.  Most rational jurists would now be waiting to hear the other side, and since you did not present any other side, there is really no case to be heard.

Not to co-opt your thread, but I am rather envious of your choice.  I have far fewer choices, as I have given up my (unsustainable, straight from Kunstler’s nightmare) house in a (distant) suburb/bedroom community, but do not have property of my own, nor means to aquire any.  I withdrew my services from my previous employment on philisophical grounds, and the same would apply to most long term or ‘good’ jobs.  Therefore I know fly day to day, by the seat of my pants.

I am going to take my family on a winter motorhome trip to Mexico, before things get too out of hand to allow travel of that sort, and when I return to Canada, I will be trying to rent somewhere I can provide some of my own needs.  If there is to be a crash, I think Mexico is more secure than I am here, and if I return while things are normal, I will be attempting to return to a more independent existence for myself.

Best of luck to you. 

  • Fri, Dec 12, 2008 - 11:42pm

    #5

    krogoth

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    Re: I wish I had your choices…

KWWILSON,

 

I thought Canada was holding up pretty well so far? What’s happening that would make you want to leave?

  • Fri, Dec 12, 2008 - 11:43pm

    #4

    krogoth

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    I love Thai food

Ron,

I love Thailand food, but I am already working in Taiwan and China. But Thailand is only a short flight away. If things keep going the way they are, I am seriously considering staying here and not coming back for quite some time. Oh I will visit, but I won’t live or pay for this mess in America. I have had it up to my neck with all these illegal and unconstitutional acts, as Congress sits on it’s hands and does nothing. It falls under basic taxation without representation, does it not? Well guess what, I am not paying anything to support that.

 

  • Sat, Dec 13, 2008 - 12:53am

    #6
    radiance

    radiance

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    Re: Stay put or move?

What up Krogoth

We are in big trouble here. 300 million guns sitting idle as thieves are coming and going through the back door, while macho dads are asleep, eyes wide open, watching Rambo and dreaming of kicking booty if anyone walks through the front door. Pitiful absolutely pitiful so much young blood spilt for nothing. The tube has conquered everyone without a shot being fired. Stupid dumb beasts don’t know to pull the plug and wake-up.

  • Sat, Dec 13, 2008 - 01:05am

    #7

    joe bender

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    Re: I wish I had your choices…

i would think twice about mexico things are already out of hand there.

there are lots of kidnappings and disappearances. a lot of the people who used to come here for work have gone home and are out of work there

  • Sat, Dec 13, 2008 - 01:31am

    #8

    Keith Wilson

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    Re: I wish I had your choices…

Krogoth:

I live in the middle of the area to host the olympics in 2010.  I have seen a real estate bubble (up about 150% in the last 10 years, and almost 100% the ten years prior) of at least as great a significance as the US in general, if not approaching California, but we are only back down less than 20% so far.  Now the stadiums and highways are built, so unemployment is starting to rise, never mind that people from all over Canada commute (by air) to oilsands camp jobs that have started drying up all of a sudden.  Pulp, paper, logging all died in the last five years.  No real manufacturing left… never really was any on the west coast, just resource extraction.

I believe that our institutions will hold up better than the U.S. in general, and have so far, but I distrust crowds at the best of times, and overbearing governments at all times.  With the Greater Vancouver area being about a million spoiled selfish city folk, I don’t look forward to the first delayed food shipment.  If I had not walked away from my job, I would be among the best paid blue collar folk in my area, yet still not making enough (Gross Income) to pay a 75% mortgage on the house I rent in a 40 hour week.  I survived the last five years on about 40% of my total income being from overtime, and having my take home eroded by taxation and food inflation.  I have also noticed a significant increase in police presence, and overbearing enforcement, with roadblocks, vehicle inspections and sometimes searches on a random basis and without any consideration for cause.

As far as deflation, I sure don’t see any signs in the grocery store, or other necessities.

Right now, I am leaving an area and situation which I find unsustainable, not the country as a whole.  In short, I am not condemning Canada on the whole, but primarily Urban Canada.  When I return in the spring, I will be trying to get out of the way of the urban monster, specifically to an area of about 20000 people with a great (for Canada) microclimate, and some transportation difficulties which would prevent an influx if transport in general became a problem, with all the other social stresses that may entail.

Anyone know the way to the gulch?  Cool

  • Sat, Dec 13, 2008 - 01:36am

    #9

    krogoth

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

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    Be careful of certain countries

If you are considering relocating, be careful of making a move to other countries, here is why.

A little background first. I have worked all over the Middle East, Far East and Europe and Latin America, and while most countries are fine in like the UAE (Dubai, Qatar) you still need to be wary of the laws and conditions.

UAE-
In some Arab countries, you can be fined and/or imprisoned easily for little or no reason. For example, you get into a car accident and you caused it. You may go to jail for quite some time (like 10 years) to repay back your debt to the other party in imprisonment. A common mistake by foreigners is to get drunk and drive, causing an accident.

They have "Americanized or Foreigner zones" in most of these more modern countries, where if you are single, you can meet plenty of the opposite sex, and have access to plenty of alcohol, but also be careful because outside these areas are usually a lot of police waiting for you to mess up.

Wages are generally very high, but cost of living is high as well. For example, a modest home to rent can run you about 40k a year, so even if you are making 100-200k a year tax free, you still will get hit by a lot of living expense.

All of these areas are under a prince and/or Muslim law, which can be tricky. For instance, you cannot hold hands, kiss or do anything like that in public, so be careful. You must also observe Muslim traditions and religious situations regardless of your religion.

Mexico-
Stay clear- As Joe said, lots of kidnappings and pretty much rampant crime. If you are a foreigner, you might as well just put a kidnap me sign on your back. This is true for most of Latin America as well.

India-
Well, Joe2baba is practically an expert on India, but my experience is only vacationing in Goa, so that’s a different world compared to common India. Ask Joe2babba for any India questions.

Asian Countries-
As language may be a barrier in some countries, for the most part a safe bet with economies that will in my opinion not be so damaged by this global crisis depending on where you are. In China and Taiwan, they always have work for foreigners. Japan is dicey for employment, but I think will get better. the other Asian countries I have been to is purley in a vacation way, so others will need to comment on this.

Europe- Have not travelled or worked in Europe for awhile, so others may be able to give you a more updated version of what is going on in each particular region.

From what KWWILSON and Ron and saying (I am guessing Ron, you are Canadian,) Canada sounds scary now. Ask Ron for guidance on this or the other Canadians on the website.

Anyone else want to comment on where they have been, or where they are from an economic, job or living conditions standpoint, please post it.

 

As for people considering relocating, if you can’t get your questions answered here, check Google or Yahoo for foreign worker websites (plenty of them) to see the conditions. Go to the forums on these websites to get the current picture.

 

  • Sat, Dec 13, 2008 - 02:32am

    #10
    radiance

    radiance

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    Re: Stay put or move?

I have been to Canada once. I live near Lake Michigan in rural orchard country, I love the area here, great seasons and lots of snow about 34 inches so far this winter. I can not see another house from mine. As I look out my window I see nothing but the bliss of nature.

Then I go online and get slapped awake by unleashed mad dogs; fangs gnashing, thirsting for human blood, yours and mine. They have peaceful names like Paulson but don’t let that deceive you. A cloud has descended on America and she will never be the same again. America must recede for global governance to have its way and that is what is coming and even here.The whole globe will soon tremble with suffering such as has never been seen before. 

Snow is falling tranquillity fills the air. The dogs are asleeping. My wife is knitting another blanket. I am sitting in my big leather recliner pecking at keys sharing thoughts about stuff that are coming and it is all so surreal. A lyric from Pink Floyd now runs through my mind "is anybody out there."

Ron

 

 

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