Reshuffling ?

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  • Thu, Apr 23, 2009 - 10:39am

    #21
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    Re: Reshuffling ?

Okay, being able to entertain different thoughts doesn`t mean one has to assume ome of them is real.

I’m the type of personthat if you want to have me believe in something "outlandish", fine, just show me evidence to PROVE it.

E.g. I’m an atheist who doesn’t believe in a diety because no one has ever shown me evidence or proof or anything that relies on anything other than blind faith,

But, I don’t know for sure that there isn’t a diety out there hiding somewhere, I can’t know for that matter. But until someone can show me reason to think otherwise there is no way I will act like there is one.

  • Thu, Apr 23, 2009 - 11:12am

    #22
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    Re: Reshuffling ?

[quote=Zombie210]Okay, being able to entertain different thoughts doesn`t mean one has to assume ome of them is real. I’m the type of personthat if you want to have me believe in something "outlandish", fine, just show me evidence to PROVE it. E.g. I’m an atheist who doesn’t believe in a diety because no one has ever shown me evidence or proof or anything that relies on anything other than blind faith,  But, I don’t know for sure that there isn’t a diety out there hiding somewhere, I can’t know for that matter. But until someone can show me reason to think otherwise there is no way I will act like there is one. [/quote]

Zombie;

I don’t want to get into an indepth conversation about religion, as I think the topic is not well suited to this forum or site.  But let me offer this:  Perception of God requires a different approach than the perception of the physical universe.  Lest you be fearful that I’m trying to "convert" you, let me be clear:  I don’t think it’s possible for one person to convert another.  I’m not entirely sure why this is . . . perhaps partly because God is ineffable, and is not expressed well in language.  Perhaps this is because a certain mindset is required to perceive God, and other mindsets can completely block the perception of God.  Clearly, sometimes, people have a role in another’s conversion, but in truth, I believe the change is internal, and any outside intervention is incidental to the transformation.  It has been my experience that evidence for God is quite literally all around us, and that the difference is in the perceiver, not the "object" perceived.  All of this having been said, I think it is sometimes useful to sort of point the way to those who seem motivated to make the journey. 

Please do not take these comments as anything but an attempt to be helpful, as that is how they are intended.  If you’re interested in pursuing the conversation further along religious lines, I’d be happy to do so, through the private channels.  Thanks for your comments.

  • Thu, Apr 23, 2009 - 11:53am

    #23
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    Re: Reshuffling ?

Just a general comment about this thread . . . I was initially annoyed at the ambiguity of this thread’s title, but given the way this conversation has meandered (peaceably, I might add) through philosophical discussions, perhaps "Reshuffling?" says it quite nicely . . . Funny how these things work out, sometimes. . . . . . .

  • Thu, Apr 23, 2009 - 12:30pm

    #24
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    Re: Reshuffling ?

[quote=Zombie210]

Okay, being able to entertain different thoughts doesn`t mean one has to assume ome of them is real.

I’m the type of personthat if you want to have me believe in something "outlandish", fine, just show me evidence to PROVE it.

E.g. I’m an atheist who doesn’t believe in a diety because no one has ever shown me evidence or proof or anything that relies on anything other than blind faith,

But, I don’t know for sure that there isn’t a diety out there hiding somewhere, I can’t know for that matter. But until someone can show me reason to think otherwise there is no way I will act like there is one.

[/quote]

No issue with this.

But I do have a followup if I may. For any given contentious subject (Federal Reserve Cartel, 911, NWO, yada yada yada) what evidence do you rely on for faith in the status quo explanation? 

I’ll tell you my criteria. I don’t.

If both hypothesis’ are incomplete, I’ll place a heavier emphasis (a working hypothesis so to speak) on the more plausible option, with "more plausible" defined as the one that has more evidence (both hard and circumstantial) to support it.

  • Fri, Apr 24, 2009 - 04:42am

    #25
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    Re: Reshuffling ?

Being a person that as never attached much belief to the term god and spent most of my life as Atheist, with the uneasy feeling that there must be something larger than just our own personal existence for no reason, I am growing to believe in some sort of greater force. If this greater force by definition of most religion is God then we may be on the same path.

Through a series of lessons on Quantum Physics where scientists are trying to use science as a way of proving god, I think they have proven or are going close to proving the existence of a force that connects all humans beings that we are not consiously aware of through the normal channles of existence in daily life.

I know that the belief of God is that it is some sort of external diety/force that "looks down on us". If the scientists hypothesis holds true, which says that we are all connected in the realm of quantum physics then the external force is actually external and internal in all of us and we all have a role to play in defining it’s reality.

This being said, weather it is god/allah (sp?) or whatever you believe in, it doesn’t really matter, as it is likely we are all talking about the same thing, and it all is effected by the way you think.

The movie "What the Bleep" is a good one for explaining it. and you may want to look at the Pineal Gland.

 

  • Fri, Apr 24, 2009 - 06:06am

    #26
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    Re: Reshuffling ?

@matirx what makes you think I do and if i don’t why do you then suppose these conspiracies are real? I require evidence and proof like say, peer-reviewed scientific journals. The ones that show the 9/11 inside job was utter BS.

@foote that movie was an awful piece of propaganda that had no relation to any sort of reality, especially quantum physics. The man behind that movie, I mean the one who ponyed up the money is a guy who sells that physic water bullshit. If you like to know more I can provide debunking links.

<EDIT> I have to say I don’t think I’ll add more to this thread, I know how long they can go on about these topics and I have never seen anyone change their mind. Just steadily become less and less polite, lol. Thats isn’t directed at anyone who has posted in this thread btw. šŸ˜‰

  • Fri, Apr 24, 2009 - 09:26am

    #27
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    Re: Reshuffling ?

[quote=Zombie210]

@foote that movie was an awful piece of propaganda that had no relation to any sort of reality, especially quantum physics. The man behind that movie, I mean the one who ponyed up the money is a guy who sells that physic water bullshit. If you like to know more I can provide debunking links.

[/quote]

Zombie, Can you explain more about the Physic water bullshit, and I would like to see any debunking links. I will follow this up as I am more than happy to see both sides.

  • Fri, Apr 24, 2009 - 03:25pm

    #28
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    Re: Reshuffling ?

[quote=foote2777]This being said, weather it is god/allah (sp?) or whatever you believe in, it doesn’t really matter, as it is likely we are all talking about the same thing, and it all is effected by the way you think.[/quote]

Foote;

Much of what you say has merit, and I am aware of and intrigued by the mathematical and physics-based arguments for God’s existence.  But, until you do a very in-depth study of the various religions, I would be wary about assuming that, to paraphrase, "we all worship the same god".  While I would agree that there is, indeed, The Creator, my study of religion has convinced me that the various religions do not worship the same "god", and that truth, by its very nature, is not democratic.  While it’s an attractive concept in this age of individualism, I would caution against telling God what he can and cannot do. 

Please understand that I do not, in any way, intend to stifle your interest in understanding this subject.  On the contrary, I find your instinctive acknowledgment that there is One-who-is-aware-of-all quite encouraging, and indeed, inspiring, and I sense that you have the roots of true wisdom.  I am simply suggesting that you NOT make the leap of logic that since you have seen that there is truth in the existence of God as the Observer, it should inevitably follow that the menagerie of faiths share in this Truth.  On close examination, there are striking differences in the qualities attributed to The Divine by the various faiths.  Few are the ones who find Truth . . . . I would encourage you to strive to be one of them, and settle for nothing less.

By-the-by, I generally avoid in-depth conversation about religion on this site, as it is not well suited for the topic.  If you’d like to pursue more discussion, please contact me by email or PM.

 

  • Sat, Apr 25, 2009 - 04:41am

    #29
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    Re: Reshuffling ?

@Foote SUre, here are a bunch of links

http://dir.salon.com/story/ent/feature/2004/09/16/bleep/index.html

http://www.intuitor.com/moviephysics/bleep.html

and my fav

http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/04-10-01.html

  • Sat, Apr 25, 2009 - 07:52am

    #30
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    Re: Reshuffling ?

What are we reshuffling?

Inquiring minds need to know

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