Reshuffling ?

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  • Thu, Apr 16, 2009 - 12:45am

    #11
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    Re: No Conspiracy Theorists Here

[quote=c1oudfire]

 

Shhh . . . . I don’t think the conspiracy bashers have noticed that we’re here.

[/quote]

"We’ve" noticed – but we’ve just been lurking.  Wink

  • Thu, Apr 16, 2009 - 03:11am

    #12
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    Re: Reshuffling ?

[quote=Pete In Florida]

With no intent to argue, or pick a bone with you Zombie, the bolded statement is extremely dangerous. I don’t prefer to "think" anything. What I do prefer is to know exactly what the real truth is, warts and all. Even if that truth is profoundly shocking I still want to know it. I’ll work through the psychological aspects first, go through the stages of acceptance, then roll up my sleeves and think about what actions, no matter how insignificant, I can engage in to stop whatever is going on, if it indeed requires intervention. Do you know what I mean and why I consider your bolded comment to be dangerous? 

I have found that nearly 100% of summary rejections of conspiratorial hypothesis’ and theories, are ultimately rejected because the rejector preferred to think that something else was a more "rational" and thus comfortable description of the circumstances, observations, and evidence. 

[/quote] 

 

Ahh, excellent point sir. Let me expand a bit on what I meant.

First
off feel free to argue or pick a bone with me anytime, I’m a big boy
and can be in a disscusion without thinking the other person is trying
to be a troll or similar. 🙂

As an atheist who used to be a
fundamentalist I agree 100% with what you said, in fact my becoming an
atheist was in a large part due to having similar feelings.I’m guilty
of using a conversational phrase rather than being 100% literal
semantically speaking.  To clarify "I have seen no evidence of a NWO or
anything similar that couldn’t be explained using occam’s razor, if
someone gives me proof, evidence that I can’t refute. THEN will I
seriously think that there is such a conspiracy. 

I.e. I will require the same standards of proof for it that I would require any other conspiracy, 

[quote=Pete In Florida]

The danger in this is the closing of the mind, and ultimately self-deception leading to delusion. Delusion defined as adherence to a belief regardless of whatever conflicting evidence presented. It’s a dogmatic adherence to a perception. And once in that state, it’s damn near impossible to snap out of. 

[/quote]

Once again I agree with the above, and apply it equally both to the NWO conspiracy and various world religions I have studied. 

Having an open mind is the cornerstone of atheism, rationality and skepticism. But there comes a point when you are so open minded that your brains can fall out.

A passage from the late great douglas adams comes to mind.

"The Electric Monk was a labour-saving device, like a dishwasher or a video recorder. Dishwashers washed tedious dishes for you, thus saving you the bother of washing them yourself, video recorders watched tedious television for you, thus saving you the bother of looking at it yourself; Electric Monks believed things for you, thus saving you what was becoming an increasingly onerous task, that of believing all the things the world expected you to believe.

Unfortunately this Electric Monk had developed a fault, and had started to believe all kinds of things, more or less at random. It was even beginning to believe things they’d have difficulty believing in Salt Lake City. It had never heard of Salt Lake City, of course. Nor had it ever heard of a quingigillion, which was roughly the number of miles between this valley and the Great Salt Lake of Utah. " – Douglas Adams 

  • Fri, Apr 17, 2009 - 11:53am

    #13
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    Re: Reshuffling ?

Zombie.

I do have a bone to pick with you now. Tongue out

 

You predicated your response on the concept of "believe". 

My worldview is based on entertaining probabilities. 

Allow me to quote. 

Perhaps this greek dude sums it up best. 

 

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. ~Aristotle. 

  • Fri, Apr 17, 2009 - 04:20pm

    #14
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    Re: Reshuffling ?

Lol, I think we are getting hung up on semantics here. 😀

  • Fri, Apr 17, 2009 - 11:26pm

    #15
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    Re: Reshuffling ?

Pete In Florida

Thanks for your quote – it is one of my favourites.  I am going to put it on my profile signature.

  • Sat, Apr 18, 2009 - 02:34pm

    #16
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    Re: Reshuffling ?

[quote=Pete In Florida] It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. ~Aristotle.  [/quote]

Thanks for that one, Pete.  The development of this skill was a revolutionary step for me.  It does require more mental effort than the old black-or-white model, but it yields results that are a much better guide for decision-making.  Unlike the pigeon-holing true/false evaluating technique that I used in my youth, I now hold information in a much more complex mental filing system.  Let me explain a bit . . .

First, I now rarely dismiss new information that makes my mind go, "huh?" . .."what?"  If a phenomenon does not "fit" or behave in a way that makes sense, I put it in the "there’s something fishy about this" file, and wait for more information to round out the picture.  Well known examples of this are the Kennedy assassination and let’s-borrow-to-solve-the-problem-caused-by-too-much-debt phenomenon.

I am prepared to discard any previously held notion that does not agree with reality, and whose assumptions lead to inaccurate predictions of the future.  Theories regarding the true world power structures are filed (in my mind) in a hierarchy of likelihood, in order of which model best explains the myriad phenomena that we observe.  None is held as "absolutely true" until I have direct observation to rely on* , and precious few are held as "disproven".

I always look for "who benefits?" when the official explanation doesn’t pass the sniff test.  9/11 and the current economic crisis fit nicely into this category.

I am always willing to hold a theory in my mind as an "evaluation in progress" phenomenon, and to mentally test its ability to explain phenomena and to predict the future. 

A concrete example of this thinking:  Prior to Sept 2008, I held a substantial number of shares of Berkshire Hathaway, investing guru Warren Buffet’s vehicle.  I had followed Buffet closely for many years, and like many other investors, I usually read his annual reports very carefully.  I was aware of, and had mentally filed the Berkshire stockholders’ oft-quoted maxim that one should sell anything else but "never sell your Berkshire", because of the historically phenomenal returns.

Then the market started to tank.  Having read Harry S. Dent’s work (but heretofore unaware of Peak Oil), and recently having become aware of the NWO theory of explaining global phenomena, I had a high index of suspicion that this was going to be the Big Crash, and quickly exited all of my stock positions . . . . but I hesitated a few days before cashing in the BRK.  The stock had actually spiked up quite nicely, as it’s only close competitor in the reinsurance business was AIG, and it appeared that it was going to be able to pick those bones quite handily.

But then, I saw Buffet on the MSM, encouraging folks to buy stocks.  The dubious wisdom of that advice (surely Warren Buffet would know better, if I did), combined with the fact that Buffet had recently divested the vast majority of his personal wealth to the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, an institution with dubious motives, convinced me that Mr. Buffet and his stock could no longer be trusted, and I bailed . .. . quite near the top, as it turns out.  BRK subsequently took a steep dive to about 50% of the high, last I checked.

My point is not to crow about my great investing decision, but rather to give an example of how "entertaining ideas" without clinging to their veracity can be useful in fleshing out a picture, and making better decisions.  I think I have seen this mental strategy referred to, in literary circles, as "subtlety of mind".  In my younger years, I would slide over that phrase in literature, never quite knowing what it meant.  Now, I think I do.

 

* Gratefully, and much to my surprise, I have been able to observe, at close range, some of the power figures in Washington today.  By virtue of location (near Chicago), combined with a series of fortuitous coincidences, and the fact that arrogant people always underestimate the intelligence of those around them, I was able to know that Obama would be president, four years before he was elected, and that he definitely would not represent change.

** Another even more nebulous piece of information that went into my thinking was my understanding of how BRK makes its money.  As an insurer/reinsurer, BRK collects premiums and pays out claims.  The period between the collection of the premiums and the payout of claims is called "float".  That money is invested (largely by buying entire companies).  Though never explicitly stated, this strategy of using the "float" clearly implies that delaying payment of claims through stalling and litigation is profitable.  Being a nurse, I am aware that this practice can have devastating, and even lethal consequences.  I am sure that Mr. Buffet, being a brilliantly intelligent man, must realize this, and if he doesn’t, that certainly says something about his moral development.  So I’ve always had this gut-level discomfort with Buffet’s character, despite the fact that he presents himself as a sort of "regular guy" who just happens to be good at investing.  In short, I was willing to entertain the possibility that he could possibly be willing to mislead the public, for whatever motive.  I was no longer willing to trust my nestegg to Buffet’s character in this environment.

  • Wed, Apr 22, 2009 - 12:40am

    #17
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    Re: Reshuffling ?

Pete in Florida, Thank you for defining the situation I now find myself in. For as long as I can remember I have been uneasy about what goes on in the world around us. After 9/11 I began to think things were not as they seemed and decided to find out more. My initial research started to bring up more question than answers. alot of things pointed toward government involvment for purposes of going to war. Initially this was positioned simply as a way for a governemnt to be re-elected for a second term. over time I had falling back in to day to day life and not ventured more deeper than that. Since the Financial crisis I have redeveloped this questioning and then found myself here at CM

Over the last year I have researched more and more and devote most of my spare time to understand the truths behind what we are told through the media.

I now realise the depths this conspiracy goes. Many people laugh off conspiracies as it is easier to go along with the head in the sand than to question. So many people are happy to hand over all responsibility of there lives to someone else e.g the Government. there is a very good reason why. TV. It has been proven that TV puts people into a state of hypnosis, so while we sit there in an hypnotised state, whatever is delviered to us is taken for granted and imbedded into our sub-concious. I decided to throw my TV out. SInce then my eyes have been opened to the amount of sublimnal messages that are delivered through the TV. The word Governemtn itself translates in Latin as "Control Mind"

Whats is even more unnerving is the amount of people that dismiss the theory of an elite group controlling all of this. I am convinced and firmly believe this to be true. If you really look at what goes on behind, and for that matter, right in front of us, you can find huge amounts of evidence to minipulations by the elite to control the people for their own benefit. The truth comes out in C1oudfire’s statement of "Who Benefits" this is such a profound but huge concept that will awaken so many people to realisations if only they looked a little deeper. All of the World Wars, Financial cashes etc. all benefitted the same people.

I want to thank you guys for starting a true open and honest disscussion, and hope that if anyone decides to post here to debunk anything, that they come with evidence to prove rather than just a simple head in the sand remark.

I can’t put here all the links of what I have seen and read but some things to look into are:
The Obama Deception, The Zeitgeist Movement (3 Movies), Flouride in drinking water, Illuminati (including symbology, use in Hollywood), cloud trails, Bilderburg Group, The Trilateral Council on Foreign Relations, American Farmers being sued,

Who Benefitted from the World Wars. Arms supply to both sides, financing.

I look forward to hearing more of what others think, and I am more than happy to be proven wrong or have my post picked to pieces

Foote2777

  • Wed, Apr 22, 2009 - 10:07am

    #18
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    Re: Reshuffling ?

 

Thanks everyone for your kind compliments.

Cloud.

If no one here ascribed at some time or another to Aristotle’s view of man then the Crash Course would have never gotten off the ground, this forum would not exist, and the same folks that resort to belittlement and mockery would not be here. But what I find puzzling is that they are able to entertain the concept of the 3 E’s, yet snidely dismiss other concepts. I happen to think, and this is my opininion based on observation, that the peak-resources crisis might be a lesser psychological threat in some manner.

Now some might say that Chris’ 3 E’s concept is not a conspiracy and therefore not worthy of derision. True, the paradigm in itself is not.

But we’re all here. Therefore we believe it to be true. And we believe it to pose a grave threat to mankind.

So riddle me this. If the 3 E concept, or paradigm is legitimate, and we all have concluded that it is, then why isn’t it the NUMBER ONE topic of discussion in print, on television, in theatre, on Capital Hill, and in academia?

Either we’re wrong, or a CONSPIRACY of silence on a grande scale is in effect.

 

Chew on that.

  • Wed, Apr 22, 2009 - 10:18am

    #19
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    Re: Reshuffling ?

One more thing to chew on. If the media is ignoring these issues (the 3 E’s) then what else are they misrepresenting ?

We know the economy is one.

We know peak oil, food supply issues, and other peak resources like copper are on the "no discussion" list.

We know they never speak of prosecutions for fraud on Wall Street.

The April 15th tax revolts were small isolated protests by disgruntled anarchists, right-wing extremists, and selfish people that don’t want to pony up for the betterment of society. We know because that mantra was the drumbeat of the mainstream media.

What else are they lying to us about via ommision? What other realities are they trying to beat into our heads? What "realities" do we still cling to, that are not truth, yet we cannot differentiate what we believe from what is truth? 

By the way. Where’s Osama? 

I should have picked the name "Morpheus" instead of Pete In Florida.

  • Wed, Apr 22, 2009 - 12:34pm

    #20
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    Re: Reshuffling ?

[quote=Pete In Florida]

 

Thanks everyone for your kind compliments.

Cloud.

If no one here ascribed at some time or another to Aristotle’s view of man then the Crash Course would have never gotten off the ground, this forum would not exist, and the same folks that resort to belittlement and mockery would not be here. But what I find puzzling is that they are able to entertain the concept of the 3 E’s, yet snidely dismiss other concepts. I happen to think, and this is my opininion based on observation, that the peak-resources crisis might be a lesser psychological threat in some manner.

Now some might say that Chris’ 3 E’s concept is not a conspiracy and therefore not worthy of derision. True, the paradigm in itself is not.*

But we’re all here. Therefore we believe it to be true. And we believe it to pose a grave threat to mankind.

So riddle me this. If the 3 E concept, or paradigm is legitimate, and we all have concluded that it is, then why isn’t it the NUMBER ONE topic of discussion in print, on television, in theatre, on Capital Hill, and in academia?

Either we’re wrong, or a CONSPIRACY of silence on a grande scale is in effect.

 

Chew on that.

[/quote]

Well said, and self-evident, to those who care to see it.  I agree with you that some truths are more easily confronted than others.  For me, realization of the pickle we’re in was inextricable from my own personal examination of human nature, including, and most painfully, my own.  Once I had come to terms with the rather sobering human condition, all of the other pieces fell into place, and the world made a whole lot more sense.  There was a period of time, when I’d frequently recall certain events and phenomena, that had previously made me think, "huh?". . . ."what?", such as the Kennedy assassination, and think, ooohhhhh, now I see . . . . Indeed, it was as though my entire world had shifted on its axis. . . . 

While, indeed, many "conspiratcy theories" are unprovable, in the conventional sense of the word, in many cases, they simply are the best model I have for explaining, and more importantly, predicting events. One cannot take a single observation, in isolation, and prove much of anything.  But if one looks at the whole gestalt, and is willing to hold the individual observations in a state of "I don’t understand this . . . yet", then, like solving a riddle, the program kind of runs in the background, and one often has an "aha!" moment, when the dots seems to connect themselves.

And so, in a backhanded way, all of the recent in-your-face scandal has been a blessing for those of us who are willing to receive it, in that it provides us with an undeniable metaphor for the human conditon.  Predictably, there will be those who perceive that as a gift, and utilize it as a spiritual guide, and those who will not. 

 

 

*  With regard to this statement:

[quote=Pete In Florida]Now some might say that Chris’ 3 E’s concept is not a conspiracy and therefore not worthy of derision. True, the paradigm in itself is not.[/quote]

. . . .It is a testament to Chris’ communications skills that the 3 E’s are not framed as a conspiracy in the CC.  As you aptly pointed out, they certainly can be viewed that way, with no distortion of the facts.

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