President Trump Tests Positive For SARS-Cov-2
I find your response to Sand_Puppy to be very aggressive and inappropriate. When there are good people trying to help in a system that is corrupt we should embrace them and support them…. Some of us depend on this community and members for truth! You’re attacking on the wrong side of fence!
Over 7,000 Scientists, Doctors Call For COVID Herd Immunity, End To Lockdowns
“Those who are not vulnerable should immediately be allowed to resume life as normal,” it notes, adding “Keeping these [lockdown] measures in place until a vaccine is available will cause irreparable damage, with the underprivileged disproportionately harmed.”
“Current lockdown policies are producing devastating effects on short and long-term public health,” the declaration also declares.
“Keeping students out of school is a grave injustice,” the declaration adds.
“Those who are not vulnerable should immediately be allowed to resume life as normal, it concludes, explaining that “Simple hygiene measures, such as hand washing and staying home when sick should be practiced by everyone to reduce the herd immunity threshold.”
“Schools and universities should be open for in-person teaching. Extracurricular activities, such as sports, should be resumed. Young low-risk adults should work normally, rather than from home,” it emphasises.
Just a few of the snippets from the ZH article. Bolding was in the article. It is understandable that we erred on the side of caution when the virus started its rampage. We didn’t know how bad it could get. At first, the concern was overwhelming the ICUs in the hospitals. When that was no longer an issue, the goal posts got moved and the goal was to reduce infections down to zero.
I get tired of hearing the main stream media report all the new cases discovered on a daily basis without putting the results in context. Were the cases new infections … or were they old infections that were just discovered because of more testing? The MSM falls flat on this nuance. Is it just to place blame on our president? Lots of intelligent, sincere folks are buying it because it reinforces their biases.
We can all wear masks to reduce the R naught, but it won’t reduce the long term result. Unless we can eliminate this virus completely, it will just delay the inevitable. Wouldn’t it be better to focus on methods to keep Covid-19 from being such a nasty disease? If it can be stopped in its early stages of development when the viral load is miniscule, a person’s immune system can be activated while reducing the chance of infecting others.
We pretend to be science based. If scientists were allowed to study whatever interested them and publish peer reviewed papers without worrying about future funding, we’d get great science. The science we get today is the best that money can buy. Those with the money and an agenda shop around for scientists likely to support the agenda. It doesn’t happen all the time, but enough to color the outcome.
If it weren’t this way, we’d have scientists jumping at the chance to do an RCT with HCQ/Zith/zinc or other prophylaxes. Why aren’t these randomized trials being conducted? Where’s the money to fund them? That’s why I say we pretend to be science based. In reality, we’re more emotionally based than we care to admit.
I agree with some of the points you made, Dave, eg. the influence of big Pharma to corrupt some of the info provided both to Trump and the public via Fauci and others, including, IMO, over-relying on a vaccine as the ultimate solution. I don’t like the the notion that we should necessarily count on dumping zillions of tax dollars into Big Pharma’s coffers and say they have zero liability for whatever pops out the other end of their truncated vaccine safety testing process, while avoiding testing, publicizing and advocating Vitamin D, HCQ, or other much cheaper, apparently very effective treatment and protection protocols.
‘Contact tracing works when you have a small case load. It doesn’t work when you have millions of infected people. It’s just a waste of effort.’
I agree with that, too, of course – though once upon a time, when Trump was informed in January that the disease was lethal and decided to lie to the American public, we did have a tiny case load. That advantage was squandered, and as I said, I do hold Trump responsible for that, though not solely responsible, for reasons you suggest. In particular, apart from being in charge of what we agree is a bungled US response, I hold him responsible for consistently upholding a lethal false narrative this is literally or figuratively ‘a hoax’ in his tweets and by his own actions – even now, continuing to this day the lie to millions of Americans by telling them they don’t have to worry much at all, it really is no big deal. He was properly afraid for his own life a week ago – no one knows with certainty a COVID infection’s outcome at his age – but he puts out this crap for political purposes based on his multi-thousand dollar rapid treatment process, something that you or I would never get.
I’d have much more sympathy for Trump’s approach if he would have told us from the beginning, “Look, we think a good approach is to go for herd immunity, but people really need to take care until we’re sure about how this spreads, especially middle aged and older people. Look at me, at 74, I’m careful about not putting myself at risk, as all older people should be, and I certainly wouldn’t want to put the older people and supporters I meet with every day as President at risk, either by not wearing a mask or by not keeping social distance, etc.”
But that’s just not who Trump is. Trump revels in simplistic absolutes in the world of complicated truths we live in. He prefers simple lies to intelligent, complex discussions. He revels in making enemies and antagonizing people who are intellectual or complex thinkers. He would hardly ever say the kind of thing that you said: ‘…intelligent people can differ on outlook. It is awesome we can have a civilized conversation, while we both feel passionately about the subject at hand, and yet still have respect for one another when we are done.’ I really agree with that.
His is a tribal, outmoded, intentionally antagonistic and ineffective way for a leader of a diverse democracy to try to deal with a world full of very tough, complicated problems, most of which are getting worse. We need to try to help each other in this time, be open, be flexible. So much division and antagonism and untruth is not just counter productive, it’s hurtful and dangerous. Yes, I agree that Trump isn’t the only source of division by any means, and I’ve powerfully criticized some liberal types, including friends who seem not to understand how fed up millions of us (including me) are with the establishment Dem party and why Trump got elected in the first place. But Trump is not the right person for this country in this difficult time.
I’m hopeful that we’ll be able find a way to move on to more collaboration, even though there are passionate views and big differences across the US. I’ve had some pretty conservative friends I met online and have posted with for years now, mostly on financial stuff, but also on religious and political issues. Of course, many things we don’t agree about, but I’m surprised at how many things we actually do agree about, and at this point we’re truly friends, and joke around a lot. Better to work with agreement where we can and build on it. I agree with Ralph Nader that, especially regarding Wall St. and economics, there are big opportunities for collaboration between the non-establishment ‘left’ and non-establishment ‘right’ to deal with corruption and our elitest-run system. Good to find common ground where we can and talk out the rest, vote, etc. rather than be enemies. I don’t always succeed at it, but I do, like you, try to be civil. And I’ve found that a little patience, listening and discussing rather than shouting can sometimes pay off in surprising ways.
If you don’t mind my asking, what do you hope to learn from this line of questioning?
I ordered HCQ the day my government (Canada) announced they had approved Remdesivir as the one and only antiviral approved for treating Covid. There was a brief stir in the news soon after about an Ontario doctor getting shit for tweeting about HCQ and asking why she wasnt supposed to even look at it. The media here was playing on the America’s Frontline Doctors story which had just happened (the subtext being that MAGA hat buffoonery had infected some of the professionals we thought we could trust).
I realized then that “we are on our own” and acted accordingly. I don’t like it anymore than you seem to, but there it is. I remember an “Ask Us Anything” video that Chris and Adam did during the lockdowns where Chris showed off his stash of some Russian antiviral he had acquired through the mail and thought, “OK, thats going too far for my taste.”
But I appreciate that PP is a “big boy pants” site for people ready to take action as best they can. It sucks that those of us born in the west were raised to be utterly dependent on systems now failing us and the transition back towards individual responsibility is gonna be painful. It’s an unfortunate fact that some people are gonna go down drinking bleach during these times but it is what it is.
I don’t even consider the HCQ thing to be that tough a decision on a personal level because assuming you can read a dosing label, its almost impossible to hurt yourself with this stuff or do anything that hurts your fellow humans.
People ordering Chemo drugs from India because they can’t afford American drug prices I feel sorry for. People being pushed into unnecessary surgeries for the profit of the surgeon (See Mish’s prostate cancer story) or denied testing for one thing or another by their insurance company I feel sorry for. And those things were happening long before covid came along.
I don’t think there is anything fundamentally new going on here to be honest. What you think of as things turning in a dark new direction is really just your own process of realizing they have been sketchy for a while now. I go through this process all the time.
I didn’t think you were attacking sand_puppy btw, but I respect him because he demonstrates an ability to reason about things, not because “hes a doctor!”
His is a tribal, outmoded, intentionally antagonistic and ineffective way for a leader of a diverse democracy to try to deal with a world full of very tough, complicated problems, most of which are getting worse.
A world of tough, complicated problems? Yes. And what has Trump’s approach produced? No war with Syria. No war with N. Korea. Functional end of ISIS. Troop withdrawals from the middle east. Historic peace deals in the middle east. These are not things that are getting worse, these are all things getting better.
You folks who are full of mass media lies and BS are just tough customers… go ahead and vote for a resumption of the war mongering neocon party, because that is what you are rooting for Kelvinator.
‘No war with Syria. No war with N. Korea. Functional end of ISIS. Troop withdrawals from the middle east. Historic peace deals in the middle east. ‘
‘You folks who are full of mass media lies and BS are just tough customers’
Sorry I upset you, Jim H, but you clearly have no idea what I actually think about neocons, (I don’t like them) and are just putting your blanket notion of what you imagine ‘we folks’ who don’t like Trump believe simply because I genuinely don’t think your guy has done a good job. You feel differently & I get that.
I find the idea that the Dem party, which I often criticize, is ‘THE Neocon party’ pretty laughable. Bush and the GOP, on false pretenses, killed hundreds of thousands to make the military industrial complex a few trillion corrupt bucks and created a disaster for US policy across the Middle East, spawning ISIS, as far as I’m concerned. I’m glad Trump has tried to avoid war, but find your notion that Trump has done much differently in some of those areas than Biden would likely have done in the current climate not accurate. Every politician with half a brain now realizes how deeply fed up with US war adventurism Americans of both parties are. Do you really think he’s about to send troops into Syria or start a war with N. Korea, for example? Was any President, in the cold light of day, ever going to war with North Korea with millions of South Korean going to be obliterated within a few minutes? No, they weren’t going to do that. It would be insane stupidity. Did Trump threaten it at some points to try and get leverage against them? Yes, he did. Did Dems do the same at various times? Yes, they did. And I didn’t like it in either case. Did Trump really accomplish anything with N Korea and get it to stop its nuclear program? No, he didn’t. Please look it up if you imagine he accomplished something with N Korea, other than fall in love with Dear Leader. Is Trump’s ‘Middle-East peace deal’ historic? No, it’s really not, in my view. Did he make the world more dangerous by undoing the Iranian Nuclear Deal and Paris Climate Accords, taking us near the brink of disastrous war with Iran? Yes, he absolutely did, IMO. Do I approve some of Trump’s stronger stance against China? Yes, I do. Do I think Trump could get us into a horrible war with China based on his rhetoric to date? Yes, I do. Could Biden? Possibly, though I expect he’d work to avoid it as would Trump. I’ve got my eye on them both, though.
No reason to delve much more into this, if you believe and say I’ve bought all the BS MSM cranks out and I go with the simplistic notion you’ve bought every single line the right wing propaganda machine is cranking out. Kind of silly and not a real conversation worth spending any time on, don’t you agree? I’ve been seriously anti-war for decades, and actively protested against and worked politically to defeat candidates from both parties that I saw as a threat to peace. You don’t know me at all on these issues, so please don’t make assumptions about what I believe and don’t believe. We just don’t agree on some facts and perspectives. It happens all the time. Turns out my views are sometimes pretty different than my brother’s, for example, who is also voting for Biden but who liked Hilary more than I did. We love each other and agree on most things, but had a couple of heated arguments about that. We still get along very well (though I still think he wasn’t wise at all in voting for her in the 2016 primary 😉 ). People have individual views, and the more individual, the more interesting.
The Deep State corruption goes far and wide, encompassing most of the Democratic party (I would argue not Tulsi Gabbard) and many Republicans. This election is not about Republican vs Democrat, it is about Deep State vs. Trump and those of us who want to maintain our Republic.
Hunter Biden took $3.5 million from the wife of a Russian Oligarch. Can you imagine if that were a Trump kid who did that? It really did happen.. the Treasury recorded the wire transfer and it was reported to congress;
There is a simple way to start understanding all of this; Building 7, 9/11
On 9/11 a third building fell, most of it’s descent at acceleration due to gravity, i.e. the speed a mass achieves when dropped from a high place. Many folks immediately after compared the collapse to that of an old hotel being demolished with charges. NIST lied and said it collapsed due to, “normal office fires”. After more than two years, this year the University of Alaska, Fairbanks made a final report on their efforts to recreate a computer model consisting of every nut, bolt, and girder used in the building, confirmed by looking at photos taken during the commissioning of the building, before the walls and ceilings were put in. The Alaska team determined that building 7 could not have collapsed due to fire (it was designed not to), and could only have collapsed through the simultaneous removal of all support, i.e. purposeful demolition.
Who was involved in this? Well for one, I would like to point to Michael Chertoff, who helped to write the Patriot Act. Aside from all of his other connections to the event, I think the single most telling piece of evidence is at around 2:50 in this clip, where Chertoff likens 9/11 conspiracy theory, wherein people believe that there was internal US gov’t involvement in the event, to Holocaust Denial. Let that sink in.. Chertoff is so intent on making the 9/11 false flag concept untouchable that he goes full Holocaust;
And, BTW, he is still in the game, working against Trump (from today);
Almost the entirety of the mass media is against Trump. Biden is nothing but a puppet of the Deep State Globalist Neocon War Mongering Party. If you understand 9/11, then you know there is a Deep State. If you don’t, then you are still asleep. Best regards, Jim
Yes we’re being hosed by Pharma/NIAID/NIH. Don’t blame SP for that. And don’t forget it either. Blame Fauci and his friends in Pharma cartel, who want to keep you from drugs that might keep you safe.
If I were a doctor, in this situation where Fauci and his Pharma gang are doing everything to make sure I remain at risk, I’d for sure obtain HCQ as prophylaxis. I wouldn’t even hesitate. Are you kidding me? Especially if I were older, and was planning to work emergency? Good heavens. Do you know any HCWs? Have you heard the stories? I sure have. Lots and lots of stories. Turns out, people who are sick during a pandemic come into the Emergency Department. Who knew?
All your enthusiasm is focused on the wrong person. SP is letting us know his assessment of the prophylaxis regimen. I think this is really useful leadership – he’s leading by example. And prophylaxis doesn’t mean immunity. It means a better chance. Will he still wear PPE? Duh. Of course.
Unfortunately, you see this information as just a big tease. You could try that telemedicine thing. Sure seems like a good option to me. Several others have mentioned this option over time, in other forums. Ask people, or look yourself. The information is here. If you really want HCQ, you can get it.
Anyhow, that’s my two cents.
I have lost weight and am still “elderly,” but no longer obese nor hypertensive. My vitamin D levels are awesome and the exercise induced extracellular SOD (antioxidant) is great. The terrain is about as good as I can get it.
And it is time for me to return to work in the emergency department–which is SC2 exposure central!! I will be working in air ladened with viral aerosols and touching contaminated surfaces many times throughout the day.
I’ll use the continuous HCQ/Zn prophylaxis the Indian healthcare workers used with very good results. [Loading dose with 3 days of HCQ 200 mg twice daily, and 400 mg HCQ / week long term. Supplement Zn, selenium, multiple anti-oxidants. Get enough sleep. Exercise daily, spiritual practices. Ivermectin on hand for an actual illness or a very high dose exposure.]
Awesome. Personally I’d do 200mg HCQ once a day not twice due to long half-life. And I’d add chlorine dioxide to the mix, as some people have reported that even ivermectin didn’t work for them yet CDS did (although it’s highly likely they had vitamin D deficiency). And obviously avoid heavy metals injections.
I’ve been doing this since April, but I’m younger and don’t work in an emergency department.
We don’t know they have herd immunity for a fact at all, even though they may. We don’t know for certain that lasting herd immunity can be formed for this virus at all, just as it cannot be formed for its coronavirus cousin, the common cold.
That would be because it’s not necessary as it’s far less pathogenic. The very idea of looking at T cell-mediated immunity is a red herring IMHO, as it seems that all you simply need is vitamin D and a lack of toxic burden from diet, environment, and especially immunotoxic toxins like heavy metals from liability-free quality-control-free long-term-studies-free vaccines. Antibody tests miss the major point, or fail to ask the question: Do the antibodies hang around forever? No, it’s more the idea of cellular memory that can easily produce more if required. It’s irrelevant if you have Vitamin D deficiency anyway.
Okay, so looking just at deaths from COVID so far from the above table, what can we conclude about locking down vs not locking down to date? 1) The range of outcomes from locking down is huge, from fantastic to horrible, with the differences probably (IMO) depending on complicated factors of how it was done, timing, education, belief in science, unity of culture, level of individual observance/precaution, dumb luck, etc. 2) We don’t have enough non-lockdown data points other than Sweden to draw a good conclusion about not locking down’s effectiveness, but we can say that Sweden’s death rate was among the worst in the world, along with the US, but also that it did surprisingly well compared to the worst of the locked down countries like Italy, Spain and the US, given that the medical establishment seemed to think a lockdown was absolutely necessary.
All of that is quite useless IMO, as you’re ignoring the biggest factors, such as vitamin D levels, cultural social behaviors, how soon or late NPIs were implemented, etc.
It takes real work for me to keep a normal BMI in this world we live in. And mostly it works because I’m reasonably successful – I can eat organic, cook my own food, exercise, and it all works out. But I’m swimming upstream the whole time.
Well said as usual sir. Regarding the above-quoted part though, check this out: Why BMI Is a Big Fat Scam.
-Body mass index (BMI), a formula that divides your weight by the square of your height, is one of the most commonly used measures of overweight, obesity, and overall health
-Initially, BMI was primarily a tool used by insurance companies to set premiums (people with BMIs in the “obese” category may pay 22 percent more for their insurance compared to those in the “normal” category
-BMI is a flawed measurement tool, in part because it uses weight as a measure of risk, when it is actually a high percentage of body fat that increases your disease risk
-BMI also tells you nothing about where fat is located in your body, and the location of the fat, particularly if it’s around your stomach (visceral fat), is more important than the absolute amount of fat when it comes to measuring certain health risks
-Your waist-to-hip ratio is a more reliable indicator of your future disease risk because a higher ratio suggests you have more visceral fat
I appreciate your belief in this drug and in sharing your (the Indian healthcare system’s) dosages and practices. I’m stuck with Quercitin for now because my HCQ is lost in India, but I am supplementing the best I can over the counter at present.
While it is not illegal in the US for an MD to self-prescribe, the AMA frowns upon it and I believe forbids you (or FDA/CDC – whomever does) from prescribing HCQ to your customers. I use the word customer because I believe doctor/patient relationships are now defunct and should be described as merely healthcare-industry/insurance/customer relationships now.
Stick with me, because I hope not to insult you, but this next question may sting at first…
Are you now simply a doctor/employee servicing patients/customers inadequately (your hands are tied, I understand this) all the while self-prescribing a banned medication?
Assuming the above answer is yes, how are we supposed to have any faith in the medical industry after you tell us this?
You are also saying we can get over this by putting our kids in school and just letting it happen, the infection over the masses, all the while sitting in your HCQ bubble that you shouldn’t legally be able to be in, and we have to order our drugs from Canada or India to self-prescribe without an MD behind our name.
So instead of trying to fix the system you operate in, you find an illegal way to circumvent it and continue your life as usual while the rest of us can’t even look at your way as an option unless we know how to acquire pills from Asia.
I’m adding a bit of “malice” in my wording above, for your perspective it would be self-preservation not intentional criminality I suppose.
That’s CRAZY. You’re in Stockhold Syndrome Mode. You’re confusing the criminals with the abused (ALL of us). If you obey immoral laws, you’re the one who is immoral. As @thesecuritygirl said, “You’re attacking on the wrong side of the fence!”
Can the system get any more fucked up than this?
Also, for all of you elders telling me to just put my kids in school, it will be OK- we need them to get to herd immunity, can all these kids live in your houses while they contract the virus and slowly spread it since you all seem to have the HCQ+ shield going for you?
Because my HCQ and Azithro are stuck in customs in India for the last couple months still and the reorders that also don’t arrive are killing my wallet.
Get chlorine dioxide, ivermectin, and vitamin D. Those should be plenty enough. They all actually work even better than HCQ anyway, and even moreso in combination.
I’m glad Trump has tried to avoid war, but find your notion that Trump has done much differently in some of those areas than Biden would likely have done in the current climate not accurate.
Really? As I explained in this post in the ‘Help understand US politics’ thread:
The key concept to understand is that the MSM is a weapon used against humanity, not just Trump. They are the #1 most powerful weapon as it allows them to control the most valuable resource on the planet: The Narrative. Watch for yourself how it’s all centrally controlled:
As you can see, the MSM are A SINGLE SOURCE, not many different sources.
And that’s why 99% of what NPCs (MSM believers) believe about Trump is completely false. The MSM corporate legacy disinformation machine would never ever show you the following video:
While at the same time they cover up Biden’s dementia…
… and even child molesting proclivities:
If this doesn’t ENRAGE you, what would?
Now you’ve seen, in just a few minutes, what the MSM has been hiding from you. Your thoughts?
No reason to delve much more into this, if you believe and say I’ve bought all the BS MSM cranks out and I go with the simplistic notion you’ve bought every single line the right wing propaganda machine is cranking out. […] You don’t know me at all on these issues, so please don’t make assumptions about what I believe and don’t believe. We just don’t agree on some facts and perspectives.
Rhetoric is one thing, seeing the lies with your own eyes by simply watching the short videos above, is an entirely different thing. What do you think about Biden and the MSM now?
Anyone knows if POTUS was actually asymptomatic?
He gets frequent testing so it’s likely so he just tested positive, but never had any actual symptoms.
So it’s possible that him taking Hydroxichloroquine prophylactically, while it didn’t prevent him from getting infected, it could have made the difference that it can make infections so mild that are actually asymptomatic?
I wonder why there’s no mention of HCQ this time?