Population: how to control it

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  • Tue, Mar 24, 2009 - 04:16am

    #161
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    Re: Population: how to control it

We will have to disagree. We are not talking of overpopulation of a state, country or even region. We are talking about it at the planet level. I reiterate that immigration is a red herring as the movement of people from place to place has no significant impact on the global population and any minimal influence it may have is just as likely to be positive as negative.

No doubt you will continue to advance your agenda irrespective.

Don

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  • Tue, Mar 24, 2009 - 05:55am

    #162
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    Re: Population: how to control it

Bob,

Your comment:

"Again, I do think that liberal immigration policies should be considered when talking about overpopulation."  

may address localized population variations (such as in California) or even national swings in population levels but the bottom line is that 70,000,000 or so new persons inhabit the planet each year. Food, shelter and transportation in some form are needed by them. That requires consumable resources and the bottom line is that there is a fixed quantity available. It is only a math problem, not a political one.

Dons’ post above  I think is accurate. Until there is a concensus that we in fact have a problem with it we certainly won’t be able to control it.

Coop

  • Tue, Mar 24, 2009 - 02:10pm

    #163
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    Re: Population: how to control it

[quote=ckessel]Until there is a concensus that we in fact have a problem with it we certainly won’t be able to control it.[/quote] Absolutely. Controlling population humanely must become a moral imperative if we’re to have any chance whatsoever of taking on the big problems and achieving sustainability. The sad thruth is that the issue has been something of a taboo subject for the past 25 years or so. THIS NEEDS TO CHANGE. 

 

  • Tue, Mar 24, 2009 - 04:43pm

    #165
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    Re: Population: how to control it

[quote=Alex Szczech]

[quote=ckessel]Until there is a concensus that we in fact have a problem with it we certainly won’t be able to control it.[/quote] Absolutely. Controlling population humanely must become a moral imperative if we’re to have any chance whatsoever of taking on the big problems and achieving sustainability. The sad thruth is that the issue has been something of a taboo subject for the past 25 years or so. THIS NEEDS TO CHANGE. 

[/quote]

Seems the real trick is managing population levels WITHOUT getting into the Big Brother mindset and without severely punishing those who had no choice in the matter (i.e. the children).  A way to preserve freedom of choice regarding reproduction, yet with a strong incentive in place to keep families to 1 or 2 children.  The best kind of incentive would probably be one that mirrors the effect of increasing population to dwindling resources, only in a more immediately noticeable way than how we and other animals experience it in nature (where by the time it’s really noticeable it’s already too late).  If a couple really wants more than 1 or 2 children then they can do so, but said incentive system would perhaps have them make do with less resources than before, but in a way that doesn’t consign the children into poverty or create a new underclass. 

But I honestly have never seen a system or proposal that can manage that.  At least not yet.  And so I think it is unfortunately likely we’ll see in some places throughout the world either draconian population control measures, population reduction by war and/or famine, or a combination of both.  I know we will eventually learn to live within our means, but the notion that it will happen sooner rather than later probably won’t be the case.  But if a good plan that fits all the criteria above comes to light, I would support it.

– Nickbert 

  • Tue, Mar 24, 2009 - 06:16pm

    #166
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    Re: Population: how to control it

Just wait for the pandemic to solve the problem. 

Indiscriminate and apolitical.

And perfect.

  • Tue, Mar 24, 2009 - 06:20pm

    #167
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    Re: Population: how to control it

[quote=nickbert]But I honestly have never seen a system or proposal that can manage that.  At least not yet.  And so I think it is unfortunately likely we’ll see in some places throughout the world either draconian population control measures, population reduction by war and/or famine, or a combination of both.  I know we will eventually learn to live within our means, but the notion that it will happen sooner rather than later probably won’t be the case.  But if a good plan that fits all the criteria above comes to light, I would support it.[/quote]Me too. In lieu of a plan though, at the very least, I’d like to see mainstream environmental groups quit pussyfooting around the issue and forcefully connect human overpopulation to environmental sustainability. At
least make an earnest effort to appeal to folks’ common sense and moral
reasoning.

 

  • Tue, Mar 24, 2009 - 06:37pm

    #168
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    Re: Population: how to control it

At 7+ billion people, and growing, we are asking for famine, disease, or war– globally.  Don’t people GET it?  AND if/when we do reduce our number it shouldn’t give the green light to pollute at levels whereby we make up for the lessening population!

  • Tue, Mar 24, 2009 - 06:52pm

    #169
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    Re: Population: how to control it

[quote=Dogs_In_A_Pile]

Just wait for the pandemic to solve the problem. 

Indiscriminate and apolitical.

And perfect.

[/quote]

Yes, nature’s solutions tend to be very simple, thorough, and effective.  Areas of high population growth often mean high population density, which translates to easier transmission of disease.  So if we fail to solve the population problem for ourselves, mother nature will certainly solve it for us in some of the most cruel ways (to our own perspective) as possible.

I suppose though it wouldn’t be entirely apolitical or indiscriminate though…. the wealthy (both nations and individuals) will at the least have better odds of surviving a pandemic than the poor, if for no other reason that the conditions they live in… (usually) lower population density, better medical treatment and quarantine, etc… will be less favorable for spreading diseases.  But the wealthy won’t be immune, and they’ll likely be just as afraid of the pandemic as the poor.  Maybe even moreso, because they’ll feel they have more to lose…

– Nickbert

  • Tue, Mar 24, 2009 - 07:24pm

    #170
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    Re: Population: how to control it

Nickbert –  

I’d have to pull out my History of Western Civilization but I’m pretty sure the "Black Death" outbreak in the early 14th century made no distinction between the proletariat, the bourgeoisie and the ruling class as it migrated from China to Europe.  Or in any of the outbreaks in Europe up through the late 1700s.

Hold on, a flea just bit my leg…………………………..Laughing

  • Tue, Mar 24, 2009 - 08:58pm

    #171
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    Re: Population: how to control it

Now this is what I’m talking about: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article5950442.ece

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