Out Of The Box

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  • Thu, Apr 23, 2009 - 03:24am

    #1

    joe bender

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    Out Of The Box

i have been here a long time and i have read a lot of threads and posts…………..if i had a nickel? and one thing jumps out at me more than anything…………..a lack of vision. there is little discussion other than a few community threads and perma culture about what a truly new society we can create. lots of talk about what to do to protect the assets of the old paradigm but nothing about what would happen in a shtf scenario. given either a collapse or a long slow descent where would we like to be in 20 , 30  40 or more years.

the brain power on this site is amazing…………..we have almost 16000 views of the firearms thread over 800 posts. folks we fought a revolution with firearms over 200 years ago have we come so far to not get anywhere(this is not a slam on firearms so dont go off on me i am all in favor of a well armed populace it was just an example)

it would be cool for the ol prof to stretch out a little and just share a few dreams of what it would look like in his perfect world.

how far out of the box could we go ? how far down the rabbit hole?

are we just trying to maintain a failed paradigm or about creating a new paradigm. one that not only wmpowers the individual but the communtiy as well? we have had communism , fascism, some think capitalism, feudalism what is the next ism? 

maybe knowism

maybe in 20 years this thread will have 16000 views

  • Thu, Apr 23, 2009 - 05:40am

    #2
    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Peak Prosperity Admin

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    Re: Out Of The Box

Joe,

Come up north for a lovely weekend this fall to take in the fall foliage and drive through the highways and back roads of New England. When you look at the main streets of the small towns, think about how they "used" to be. Look deeply at the buildings, sharpen your eye and think about how the community unfolded. Make sure you look at ones that were located along a rail line and not one that sprung up from the highway being built.

Each town had a town "center" an area of commerce. A barber, a bank, church(s) and a few stores. It may be really hard to see depending on how the town grew, but you can tell where the blacksmith was located. And even, see where the farms came close to the "town". Each town has a "common" a large field right smack dab in the middle of the "main street" where I hear that there were farmer’s markets, festivals and entertainment. Most likely, there was a mill building that was a factory that produced goods for local consumption and transport to other communities.

My vision is a hub and spoke type of set up connected by rail or commuter bus lines. More local food growing and services. Look up "Berkshares" as a local money. Read about how it ties local community to itself. There will be locally produced goods using "alternative" energy. It really kills me that we consider any type of energy thats isn’t oil based to be "alternative". My gosh, it was OIL that was the alternative energy back when these towns were built.

I hate to say it, but look at a Disney layout. Everything is within walking distance and then there is "public" transportation to take you around to an area that may be too far to walk when you are tired. Now the only caveat about Disney is that there is a city beneath the city. The infrastructure is all underground.

I am tired and can’t think of any more right now.

C.

  • Thu, Apr 23, 2009 - 03:00pm

    #3
    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Peak Prosperity Admin

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    Re: Out Of The Box

[quote=joe2baba]

maybe in 20 years this thread will have 16000 views

[/quote]

I can hit refresh 16000 times today if you think that will help.

Seriously, I wish I had some sort of intelligent answer for this. I don’t. I think there are so many people in so many countries, states, towns, and none will agree on how to proceed. As you mention, there are the "haves" that are trying to preserve or defend what they have acquired, as is human nature. The have-nots or prepared-nots will require help – more than the folks who have prepared can give in my mind. I for one think this is what is going to dominate the social landscape, and I do not know what the ism would be for that.

I do hope that long term, a new equilibrium is reached, and we can collectively learn from the mistakes of our past. Perhaps this is knowism. Seems to me that the Iroquois, Navajo, and many other native American tribes did a good job of living within their means in a very sustainable way. It was a mental state that most capitalists and other ists don’t have room for in their brain. For example, the Navajo did not own the land, the land owned the Navajo. That thought process is so far from our programming that it really takes time to think about it and let it sink in. As they describe it, the white man has a hole in his soul that can never be filled.

Until we patch that hole in our soul and learn to live within our means, live and let live as they did, were in for more of the socialism, capitalism, whatever-ism that creates the imbalance in the first place.

Rog

  • Thu, Apr 23, 2009 - 06:04pm

    #4
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    Re: Out Of The Box


  • Thu, Apr 23, 2009 - 07:13pm

    #5
    Peak Prosperity Admin

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    Re: Out Of The Box

Tom,

That is priceless! 

 

joe2baba,

…one thing jumps out at me more than anything…………..a lack of vision.

Perhaps it is because most of us have come here looking for answers – not with the intent of telling people what they should do.

I see this community as one where those who have become aware, or are becoming aware, of a scary future can find people of like mind. Too many of us find ourselves surrounded by family and friends who have their heads stuck in the sand like the proverbial ostrich.

As an example, I am making some plans to weather the coming storm, but continue to read these threads to gain knowledge of what other people are doing as I cannot think of everything.

I think the new paradigm that you are looking for has already been expressed by other posters any number of times. A world in which we shrink back to local community, local economies.

It would be nice to know what the future holds so that we can prepare ourselves adequately. Unfortunately, we are sailing into uncharted waters. So, batten down the hatches, joe, and hang on!

  • Thu, Apr 23, 2009 - 10:34pm

    #6
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    Re: Out Of The Box

("Box, I hereby STEP OUT OF THEE!!")

Well Joe2, this is the 64 trillion dollar question, ain’t it?

My hoped-for future?

My powers of prognostification are far too meager to paint the future w/any exactitude, but it seems to me likely whatever our social organizations are, they’ll be smaller, more cooperative, and life will be a heck of a lot slower.  Not less busy, mind you, but the crazy-running-monkey hectic-ness of things will I believe (and hope) be a bad memory.  We’ll live more locally, closer to the earth (and each other) and move in more synchrony with the rhythms of the earth.  Life will be more tenuous but richer.  We’ll write and sing our own songs, both literally and figuratively.  We’ll know each other better, and ourselves too.  We’ll be valued by what we can offer others as opposed to what we can wring from the system of the world.  My wife and I host annual gatherings at our house of the members of our community for a giveaway — find something valuable that you don’t value/use/need, and bring it.  We put everything on a big blanket and then people take things.  (Last time I gave away a nice high-end [but pre-digital] SLR camera w/extra lenses & stuff…)  Similar to the Native American tradition of potlach.  The most-respected members of a community will be those that enrich the other members (in the ways that’ll matter in the future — food, health, light/heat, sturdy clothing/shoes, shelter, smiles).

Just a quick gloss.  No doubt hundred-page essays could be written on this subject…

VIVA — Sager

 

  • Fri, Apr 24, 2009 - 12:11am

    #7
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    Re: Out Of The Box

Joe,

It’s a great question, and I don’t pretend to know the answer, but I’ll offer a few of my thoughts:

First, while I think it is possible, I don’t think it is probable that the U.S. and the world will suddenly plunge into the abyss of unlawfulness, disregard for social mores, violence, and the like. Rather than falling from a precipice, I suspect we will gradually, in fits and starts, tumble down the hill, scrape our collective knees, get up and brush ourselves, only to trip again. I believe this scenario to be likely for two related reasons: one, because unless there comes a "perfect storm" of calamities (our current economic crisis alone won’t do it), there is simply not enough leverage to force us down the hill in one, swift, tumultuous event; and, two, there exists far too great inertia in our current system (old boys network, financial oligarchy, whatever) for such an event.

Second, whether suddenly or not, we will find ourselves at some future time in a very much different place from where we are. The current economic crisis will stabilize somewhat, but then will likely begin to crumble again. The effects of peak energy and our planet’s limited resources will begin to take hold, forcing a more local, integrated, and sustainable way of life.

Third, I think it highly likely that we will see a significant reduction in our world population in the next generation or two. We will see anarchy and violence, and although I suspect that will be somewhat limited in scope and extent in the U.S., it will be a greater problem in other areas of the world. That alone, though, in the absence of the release of biological agents or nuclear attacks by a rogue state, will have a relatively minor effect. Instead, starvation and disease will be the more important threats, as they have always been. As I have stated elsewhere, I would not be at all surprised by a global pandemic of serious import at some point in my lifetime.

Fourth, and the answer here will likely also come in fits and starts, will be our ultimate social and/or political structure. Here, the final outcome will vary from place to place, depending upon the social constructs and traditions that exist locally. In the U.S., we have a strong affinity for the idea of representational government, and I suspect that will endure. My hope, however, is that it will function much differently than it currently does, and more in line with the thoughts of Jefferson over 200 years ago. I am hopeful that local governments (city, county and state) will become much more empowered, and responsive to the interests of their citizens, and that a federal government, if one exists at all, will become much less powerful, intrusive, and prone to manipulation. In other areas of the world, social and political conventions may be very different, so their ideal solutions may be different.

Finally, I do not foresee an end to capitalism. None of us know for sure, of course, but I cannot imagine that some enterprising Neandethal living 100,000 years ago didn’t sell, or barter, the stone adzes he made. However, without the work-saving and exploitative money-making effects of fossil fuels, capitalism will become, like our social structures, more local, integrated, and sustainable.

  • Fri, Apr 24, 2009 - 02:10am

    #8
    Peak Prosperity Admin

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    Re: Out Of The Box

Tom Loftus – Love the art work!  You are making Joe a cult hero.  We need a Joe art exhibit wing for this blog.

Larry

  • Fri, Apr 24, 2009 - 03:01pm

    #9
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    Re: Out Of The Box

you are too kind tom you’re a genius

well this thread will disappear down the drain of the forum threads of yore.

i have a sign on the inside of my front door which reads "do your dream". i see it when i step out into the world everyday.

this thread for the most part has been a rehash of what people have done in the past that seemed to work.

my intent was to see if anyone could look into the future with the undrstanding that we have the power to create a world of our own making. something entirely new something outside the matrix. it would take the ability to step out of our normal asleep consciousness. to see the world with brand new eyes. it would take forgetting everything you think you know, believe or have an opinion about.

i did not want to lead this into any one direction but one question is on the issue of work. is one hour of a lawyers time really worth ten times the worth of a carpenter. is  a doctors’ time worth  ten times the worth of the nurse who stands by him/her at the operating table…………..in a future you would create how would something like that look?

i have no answers just wanted to open a dialog. as i said the brainpower here is incredible. and i feel in my gut that a future is being planned for us at this moment.

a fellow seeker

 

  • Fri, Apr 24, 2009 - 03:04pm

    #10
    Peak Prosperity Admin

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    Re: Out Of The Box

tom the check is in the mail…………………….i love you and i will respect you in the morning an i wont…………….

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