“Our Land: Collateral for the National Debt”

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  • Fri, Apr 16, 2010 - 04:22am

    #11
    Peak Prosperity Admin

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    Re: “Our Land: Collateral for the National Debt”

Byron Dale wrote:

Sounds like Larry has been reading to much of the misinformation advanced by Norman Kurland’s The Just Third Way and not looking for the real facts.

Hello Byron,

I’ve not read anything by Norman Kurland but it sounds like the Hegelian dialectic.  I was referencing Henry C K Liu and I might be missing something, but, he seems to agree with your book, Modern Money Secrets.  His terminology is different but the message is similar regarding “debt” and “wealth” money.  For example:

Debt Money( Modern Money Secrets) = Sovereign Debt (Henry C K Liu)

Wealth Money (Modern Money Secrets) = Sovereign Credit (Henry C K Liu) 

He doesn’t get into the mechanics near as much as you do but he seems to agree with the fundamental importance of the “wealth/debt” relationship.  Please correct me if I am wrong.

Byron Dale wrote:

Black’s Law Dictionary Fifth Edition states

“Credit.  The ability of a business or person to borrow money, or obtain goods on time, in consequence of the favorable opinion held by the particular lender as to solvency and reliability”  

“Credit” means the right granted by a creditor to a debtor to defer payment or to incur debt and defer its payment. 

I don’t disagree with this but I don’t think it applies to sovereign nations.  A sovereign nation has it’s own credit and doesn’t need a “creditor.”  It may choose to borrow from private banks but does not need to.            

Byron Dale wrote:

It is not only your land that is collateral for the national debt, the Congressional record states that Federal Reserve Notes are backed by a mortgage on all the homes and all the property of the people of America.

Do you have a source or a link for this info?  I’ve read this before but can’t remember seeing the congressional language referenced.  Does this include commercial real estate?  More details would be appreciated.

Thanks taking the time to comment!

Larry

  • Fri, Apr 16, 2010 - 12:56pm

    #12
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    Re: “Our Land: Collateral for the National Debt”

Aside from the actual source of our money supply:       FRN’s  from the Bureau Of Engraving & Printing,    Coins from the US Mint and  Bank credit from banks  via fractional reserve banking.

Only the banking system is the creator of money today.  FRN’s and Coins to not increase nor decrease the money supply.

I  get the money to pay off my  Bank Loan,   and Taxes  from my time and labor spent earning a living,  over many years out.

And how is that money put into circulation for you to capture it?

My balance sheet shows that I have more debt (loans)   than assets today.    Where would I get the money to pay off my loans?   See (a) above.

It seems to me that you’re under the belief that there is just “money out there”.  It’s all borrowed, and the bulk of it at interest. 

Can you see how this idiotic system will fail because the only way you can pay the ‘interest’ on your debts is to have someone else in the economy borrow that too, leaving them in an even tighter postion?

  • Fri, Apr 16, 2010 - 02:54pm

    #13
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    Re: “Our Land: Collateral for the National Debt”

Byron,

I thought about your Post #8 and I think you bring up an interesting point that I want to pursue.  I had said that banks do not extend credit, they issue debt and I think this is in accord with what I have learned from you. 

In Modern Money Secrets, page 182 (discussing bonds), you wrote: “Two magical and deceptive things have happened.  First, a promise to pay has become the actual payment.”  I take this literally and I think you intended it this way.  If this is true, then is a bank really giving you any money?  I’m not sure how Black’s Law defines money but how can a promise to pay be final payment?

Larry

  • Fri, Apr 16, 2010 - 06:49pm

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    Re: “Our Land: Collateral for the National Debt”

Thomas,

How is the money put into circulation?                   http://www.newyorkfed.org/aboutthefed/fedpoint/fed01.html

Banks extend loans,      say $9 for every $1 of “reserve”    to other customers.     They are in effect, collecting interest payments on money that didn’t exist before.  That is the lucrative racket that is fractional reserve banking, and the effective way to stop it is to allow over extended banks to fail.      Its customers will put it out of business.    But like I said, the Federal Reserve Systems main reason for existing is to bail out their creators, the large banks.   All other responsibilities are secondary, like throwing congress a bone by monetizing their bonds so they have spending money without having to tax.    The government will not abolish the Federal Reserve system,  not willingly anyway.

Where  and how will I get the money to pay off my bank loans?       With my time and labor spent earning a living over many years into the future


 

  • Sat, Apr 17, 2010 - 12:54am

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    Re: “Our Land: Collateral for the National Debt”

“A promise to pay has become the actual payment.”

Beautiful! This sentence is beautifully simple and cuts right to the chase of the matter.

I learned that people like to interpret our money, aka book money, as being hard cash that one can deposit under its pillow or burry in a treasure chest as he or she likes. As it is known, it’s a detrimental misconception. (That’s why I was carping on CC Ch7.) In reality no one has the chance to withhold book money from the banking system anytime. A loan being book money being a promise to pay is a bank deposit being registered as an asset in the very same system straightaway instantaneously.

On the contrary, bank’s business is not to manage or pile up assets/collaterals/our Land. Aren’t they born lousy real economy asset managers anyways? They do just extract a considerable share/interest. Essentially collaterals is a means to make sure the created money can be recollected since any principal needs to be wiped out sometime or other. And, they simply cannot fail unless we can accept that banks are allowed to issue non-returnable money, i.e. that banks are allowed to issue counterfeit money.

  • Sat, Apr 17, 2010 - 02:45am

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    Re: “Our Land: Collateral for the National Debt”

It is The Congressional Record, March 9, 1933 on H.R. 1491 pg. 83.  This is found on page 223 of my book Modern Money Secret.

  • Sat, Apr 17, 2010 - 02:57am

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    Re: “Our Land: Collateral for the National Debt”

Carl

Please be kind enough to explain to me your time and labor creates any money. 

   
Byron Dale   
  • Sat, Apr 17, 2010 - 03:14am

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    Re: “Our Land: Collateral for the National Debt”

Larry

You wrote 

Debt Money( Modern Money Secrets) = Sovereign Debt (Henry C K Liu)

Wealth Money (Modern Money Secrets) = Sovereign Credit (Henry C K Liu) 

I don’t see how got debt money = Sovereign Debt or that Wealth Money = Sovereign Credit out of anything I ever wrote or said.

Weath money can only be money spent into circulation based on the production of the people.  I know that I wrote that the Fed. Bank of Minn.  said in court that the government and the Fed. Banks promisse to pay become payment when the government made Federal Reserve Notes legal tender.  But that only works for the banks.  I don’t think that it even works for the federal government.  If it did they would no longer have a debt.

  • Sat, Apr 17, 2010 - 03:14am

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    Re: “Our Land: Collateral for the National Debt”

Larry

You wrote 

Debt Money( Modern Money Secrets) = Sovereign Debt (Henry C K Liu)

Wealth Money (Modern Money Secrets) = Sovereign Credit (Henry C K Liu) 

I don’t see how got debt money = Sovereign Debt or that Wealth Money = Sovereign Credit out of anything I ever wrote or said.

Weath money can only be money spent into circulation based on the production of the people.  I know that I wrote that the Fed. Bank of Minn.  said in court that the government and the Fed. Banks promisse to pay become payment when the government made Federal Reserve Notes legal tender.  But that only works for the banks.  I don’t think that it even works for the federal government.  If it did they would no longer have a debt.

  • Sat, Apr 17, 2010 - 05:48am

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    Re: “Our Land: Collateral for the National Debt”

 

 

I can’t speak for anyone else’s loan,   but  I  will get  (I do not have to create it)  the money  to pay the interest from my future earnings, from my job, where I exchange my time and labor to earn  it.        

 

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