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Once Again, the Search for the Truth

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  • Wed, Nov 05, 2008 - 05:36pm

    #1

    krogoth

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    Once Again, the Search for the Truth

We are having discussions on Martenson’s website once again, or disagreements I should say, about basic fundamentals of our government, who owns what and who profits from what. It would be nice for Chris or someone on here to clarify these issues once and for all, or they will continue to be argument’s or disagreements.

 1) The Federal Reserve- A recent post discussed this, and linked to a website for an attorney punching holes in Aaron Russo’s From Freedom to Fascism. This is what I understand to be true about the Federal Reserve-

They are a quasi-government operated central bank system, that loans money to the government at interest, causing our deficit to rise and private bankers and wealthy individuals profit from. If Aaron Russo (who is dead already) lied about this process in his film, or anybody lies about this, is that not grounds for a lawsuit from the Federal Reserve or the Government? It has also been stated that this company was pushed through Congress illegally. True or not?

2) Taxes, or I should say Income Tax, did not go through the proper approval process, and some say is illegal taxing. True or not?

I once again make the same argument. If these are lies, false, slander, liable or whatever, why has not 1 person gone to jail or been sued by the US government? If you lie about the US government and profit from it with a movie like Freedom to Fascism, Zeitgeist or a multitude of other movies, books, lectures, websites or media, is that not a punishable offence? Is it not a crime to lie about the government in a fashion that influences a great deal of Americans as well as others outside of America?

I get really tired of this back and Forth bantering about these subjects, and everyone has a different opinion about this. Chris, I ask you to clear these subjects up, or at least explain them in greater detail. Nobody on this or other websites has stated for fact about these topics.

 

 

 

 

 

  • Wed, Nov 05, 2008 - 07:48pm

    #2
    john50

    john50

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    Stand up on your own two feet – become a student

Edward Griffin answers both those questions in great detail in his book, The Creature From Jekyl Island. Study it and form your own conclusions. I find Griffin to be an exceptional researcher and his books to be fundamental to understanding our banking system. You can watch his video from my Blog:  http://vault.bz/2008/11/ed-griffin-2nd-look-at-federal-reserve/

I find it odd you want Chris to do your thinking and are looking to follow a middle person’s review of a another person’s study. I respect Chris, my comment is aimed at being a student – not a follower. Chris is not our Daddy that comes in and settles arguments.

Taxes illegal? Yes, but it was not corrected early enough, and now is beyond argument. Tax protesters get jailed for making some of the half-truth arguments. Compliant offshore tax planning is used by the wealthy to protect their income and assets.

Can you pass on the link where the lawyer argues against Russo, so I can consider what he is saying? 

  • Wed, Nov 05, 2008 - 08:34pm

    #4
    FNKRoue

    FNKRoue

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    Re: Stand up on your own two feet – become a student

[quote=john50]

I find it odd you want Chris to do your thinking and are looking to follow a middle person’s review of a another person’s study. I respect Chris, my comment is aimed at being a student – not a follower. Chris is not our Daddy that comes in and settles arguments.

….

[/quote]

 

But I thought that’s what my subscriber fee was for… Tongue out

 

In all seriousness so as not to detract from a good thread, perhaps the point of the thread should be asking if Chris would like to weigh in on these subjects.   I ponder, argue, debate and discuss them with friend’s and family quite often and would be interested in his opinion.   However I’m sure, unless Chris is secretly some inside operative for the fed or some member of a super secret bank who’s been appointed to form a charade of manipulative misleading information….  well that being most likely false, I doubt he has any more insider truth on the subjects that us.

I find it far more productive to spend discussions with people these days on the banks in broad daylight robbing everyone of their tax money than the more shadowy and difficult subjects like the fed’s true ownership and the cloudiness of tax obligation.

  • Wed, Nov 05, 2008 - 08:38pm

    #3

    caroline_culbert

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    Re: Stand up on your own two feet – become a student

[quote=john50]

Edward Griffin answers both those questions in great detail in his book, The Creature From Jekyl Island. Study it and form your own conclusions. I find Griffin to be an exceptional researcher and his books to be fundamental to understanding our banking system. You can watch his video from my Blog:  http://vault.bz/2008/11/ed-griffin-2nd-look-at-federal-reserve/

I find it odd you want Chris to do your thinking and are looking to follow a middle person’s review of a another person’s study. I respect Chris, my comment is aimed at being a student – not a follower. Chris is not our Daddy that comes in and settles arguments.

Taxes illegal? Yes, but it was not corrected early enough, and now is beyond argument. Tax protesters get jailed for making some of the half-truth arguments. Compliant offshore tax planning is used by the wealthy to protect their income and assets.

Can you pass on the link where the lawyer argues against Russo, so I can consider what he is saying? 

[/quote]

john50,

Krogoth didn’t  ask Chris to "do [his] thinking".  Chris can become a leader, of sorts, to iron out issues and at the very least offer his opinions.  He’s asking Chris to comment and make an opinion regardless of whether or not we decide to agree with Chris.  Chris is an expert, of sorts, and to ask experts their opinion does not boil down to blindly following those experts.  What you’ve done, again, is belittle and assume Krogoth’s request for assistance.  For adults and children alike we often need a "daddy", or let’s just say a mediator (expert/unbiased entity) to hopefully settle arguments.  I don’t see arguments as necessarily bad either.  The point of arguing should be to resolve problems rather than jeering by way of spouting ad hominems.

"Becoming a student" or a better phrase, "becoming a wise student" is listening to those who are wiser and more intelligent.  It is often good to criticize or question something, as a student, if one does not agree with the theory at large.  A wise student is one that will often "fall" from his mistakes to better understand the nature of his mistake, he is one that listens, he asks questions, he questions, he offers wisdom to the wise, and he also learns how to resolve conflicts through attacking the argument as opposed to attacking the person.  Most importantly, students should follow his master as well as he aspires to lead.  I don’t believe you can be a good leader unless you understand how to be a good follower.  That’s the difference between intelligence and wisdom… and I believe a student should aspire to be both.

  • Wed, Nov 05, 2008 - 08:55pm

    #5
    john50

    john50

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    Re: Once Again, the Search for the Truth

[quote]

I find it far
more productive to spend discussions with people these days on the
banks in broad daylight robbing everyone of their tax money than the
more shadowy and difficult subjects like the fed’s true ownership and
the cloudiness of tax obligation.

[/quote]

FNKR – totally agree. The global public/savers are being fleeced by Paulson right now. The case against the Fed is like an old murder trial or JFK conspiracy. Time is better spent with family or preparing for the recession, for many.

  • Thu, Nov 06, 2008 - 03:30am

    #6

    krogoth

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    Post about the Fed and Taxes

[quote=drbarbour][quote=James705ca]

There is also the interesting video by Aaron Russo showing that Federal income taxes are voluntary.  The risk of not paying is that you are subject to the whim of the IRS and the whether the jurors at your potential trial know, or discern for themselves, that you are in fact not guilty for not having paid. 

James

[/quote]

 

Granting credibility to Aaron Russo’s fringe ideas does a disservice to Chris M. and to  the majority of the reader’s of this site.  Before anyone seriously considers following Mr. Russo’s advice I would recommend that they first visit

http://docs.law.gwu.edu/facweb/jsiegel/Personal/taxes/F2F.htm

 

Daniel

[/quote]

 

Here is the other post

  • Fri, Nov 07, 2008 - 04:39pm

    #7

    krogoth

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    OK Ron Paul basically outlines some truth on the record

OK I have highlighted IN BOLD an offical talking points about private parties making profit off the Federal Reserve and other factors leading to the truth-

Ron Paul Introduces H.R. 2755: To Abolish the Federal Reserve

in

 

Thanks to Chris for the following: Ron Paul has sponsored H.R. 2755: To abolish the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System and the Federal reserve banks, to repeal the Federal Reserve Act, and for other purposes. Click the link for more details.

What is wrong with the Federal Reserve, you ask?

Let’s see what Dr. Paul had to say about it back in September, 2002 when he introduced similar legislation:

Congressman Ron Paul
U.S. House of Representatives
September 10, 2002

ABOLISH THE FEDERAL RESERVE

Mr. Speaker, I rise to introduce legislation to restore financial stability to America’s economy by abolishing the Federal Reserve. I also ask unanimous consent to insert the attached article by Lew Rockwell, president of the Ludwig Von Mises Institute, which explains the benefits of abolishing the Fed and restoring the gold standard, into the record. (see below)

Since the creation of the Federal Reserve, middle and working-class Americans have been victimized by a boom-and-bust monetary policy. In addition, most Americans have suffered a steadily eroding purchasing power because of the Federal Reserve’s inflationary policies. This represents a real, if hidden, tax imposed on the American people.

From the Great Depression, to the stagflation of the seventies, to the burst of the dotcom bubble last year, every economic downturn suffered by the country over the last 80 years can be traced to Federal Reserve policy. The Fed has followed a consistent policy of flooding the economy with easy money, leading to a misallocation of resources and an artificial "boom" followed by a recession or depression when the Fed-created bubble bursts.

With a stable currency, American exporters will no longer be held hostage to an erratic monetary policy. Stabilizing the currency will also give Americans new incentives to save as they will no longer have to fear inflation eroding their savings. Those members concerned about increasing America’s exports or the low rate of savings should be enthusiastic supporters of this legislation.

Though the Federal Reserve policy harms the average American, it benefits those in a position to take advantage of the cycles in monetary policy. The main beneficiaries are those who receive access to artificially inflated money and/or credit before the inflationary effects of the policy impact the entire economy. Federal Reserve policies also benefit big spending politicians who use the inflated currency created by the Fed to hide the true costs of the welfare-warfare state. It is time for Congress to put the interests of the American people ahead of the special interests and their own appetite for big government.

Abolishing the Federal Reserve will allow Congress to reassert its constitutional authority over monetary policy. The United States Constitution grants to Congress the authority to coin money and regulate the value of the currency. The Constitution does not give Congress the authority to delegate control over monetary policy to a central bank. Furthermore, the Constitution certainly does not empower the federal government to erode the American standard of living via an inflationary monetary policy.

In fact, Congress’ constitutional mandate regarding monetary policy should only permit currency backed by stable commodities such as silver and gold to be used as legal tender. Therefore, abolishing the Federal Reserve and returning to a constitutional system will enable America to return to the type of monetary system envisioned by our nation’s founders: one where the value of money is consistent because it is tied to a commodity such as gold. Such a monetary system is the basis of a true free-market economy.

In conclusion, Mr. Speaker, I urge my colleagues to stand up for working Americans by putting an end to the manipulation of the money supply which erodes Americans’ standard of living, enlarges big government, and enriches well-connected elites, by cosponsoring my legislation to abolish the Federal Reserve.

 

 

Krogoth- Since nobody wants to take a stand with factual evidence about the Federal Reserve and possible Illegal Taxes, I guess the words of an elected offical on record trying to abolish the Federal Reserve will need to do as the truth.

 

 

  • Fri, Nov 07, 2008 - 04:48pm

    #8

    krogoth

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    I want the truth on record

This is the hardest thing to get, the truth, on record. I am starting to believe the truth is what I can see 10 feet in front of my face. So many people have different opinions, but I want statements on the record showing deception, lies, mishandling, improper Congressional illegal acts, Illegal Government acts thought history, etc.

Otherwise, the arguments on here have no merit. And don’t give me an author or movie, just the hard, on record facts FROM AN OFFICAL who is elected or in judical or has a legal case on record, so we can all get to the truth. Just post that here on this thread please, with references to the official records, meetings or testimony.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  • Fri, Nov 07, 2008 - 05:42pm

    #9
    Cloudfire

    Cloudfire

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    Re: The problem with officials

 

I appreciate your insistence on cold, hard evidence, but the problem is that elected or judicial officials will filter information as directed by those who put them into power.  Consequently, the truth is more effectively perceived by making one’s own observations, and being willing to see the unvarnished truth. 

It has been my experience that people, who are willing to see the truth in themselves and the world around them, are able to ferret out the truth.  While there are some details that will always remain secret, the patterns are large and obvious enough that one can get the general gestalt of a phenomena, whether it is political, social, economic, or spiritual. 

Put simply, to those who love the truth, the truth is obvious.  The reverse is also true.  That’s why many people will never see the truth, no matter how much "evidence" is put in their faces.  They wait, instead, for an "official" to paint a picture of reality for them. 

There simply is no substitute for doing one’s own thinking.  People who are not willing to do so make excellent propaganda targets, and deservedly so.  Without critical thinking, even the "cold, hard facts" can be distorted to any end.

  • Fri, Nov 07, 2008 - 06:02pm

    #10

    krogoth

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    I realize we live with distorted evidence

I realize we live with distorted evidence, but at least if it’s on record, with an official stating it, it is the closest thing we can get for now. I just am tired of nobody taking a stand and stating this is the way it is, this is the truth and its solid. It gets really frustrating. The we have movies, books, media and everyone else reporting what this is, how this started, this is illegal whatever. I wonder if it’s people just capitalizing on the sensationalism of it, or if they are really telling the truth.

 It’s hard enough dealing with a general system that makes it EXTREMELY hard to understand the big picture, and even educated professionals and individuals can’t seem to agree on anything. Few are taking a stand with the real truth, and some may be taking a stand and labeled nutcases or conspiracy theorists.

Transparent government? Not as long as we have terms like National Security and unidentified powers I never knew about, such as people refusing subpoenas or closed door sessions off the record, like George and Dick did. It bad enough most people don’t know or care about what is going on, and it’s worse that the people who do can’t get to the truth of anything basically.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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