Odds of US attacking Iran within the next 24 months?

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  • Sun, Oct 31, 2010 - 03:06am

    #112
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    Re: Odds of US attacking Iran within the next 24 months?

V,

I think capesurvivor is referring to the forced human wave suicide attacks launched by Iran against Iraq.

  • Sun, Oct 31, 2010 - 04:19am

    #113
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    Re: The Hubris Of Empire

[quote=V]

[quote=agitating prop]

[quote=Johnny Oxygen]

Iran Says It Has Begun Loading Fuel at Nuclear Reactor

 

 

TEHRAN — Iran said on Tuesday that it had begun loading the first of 163 fuel rods into the core of its first nuclear reactor, set to go into operation early next year, and vowed to pursue nuclear activities “in other areas.”

Iran’s nuclear program has spread deep concerns in the West because governments, including the United States, believe Tehran has ambitions to build a nuclear weapon and do not accept its denials.

[/quote]

 

God help the U.S. and other Nato countries, and Israel if a large country in the Middle East is able to defend itself against wars of aggression. If we can’t pound them back to the stone age, what bargaining chips do we have left at our disposal?

[/quote]

AP could not have said it better myself. I would add fOr the benefit of   warmongering right wing republicans, Iran is one of the oldest civilizations on the planet. They have as much right as anyone, including the only country on the planet to have used nuclear weapons on a civilian population, and has threatened other countries as recently as the last administration (which happened to be republican) to have a nuclear weapons program. This is a red herring which less enlightened MSM hypnotized automatons nit only believe but propagate.

I guess some out there are sad to see Rahm go. I guess Israel has it’s sghts on Chicago.

V

ps If I were a country with the oil reserves of Iran I would have had a nuclear deterrent a long time ago.

[/quote]

Who cares how long they’ve been around?  Does that make them right about wiping Israel off the map?  And, you cannot equivocate the rantings and ravings of a lunatic in a members-only jacket (if it was only the straight-jacket model I’d be thrilled) whose hold on power is at the barrel of a gun (well, and the ordainment of a lunatic mullah or two) with the the desires and wishes of the citizens of Iran.  If they were an established democratic regime, I would agree with letting them have the bomb but they are not.  Democracies do not go to war with each other.  Lunatics not only do so, but they depend on it in order t keep a “bigger monkey” on their subjects backs.  As for the US being the only country to have used nuclear weapons, what’s your point?  It was in self defense, or did you forget the Japanese attacked the US first?  Did you also forget that estimates for invading Japan surmounted 1,000,000 US troops and who knows who many Japanese?  Quite frankly, we probably did them a favor as much as we did ourselves one.

  • Sun, Oct 31, 2010 - 04:25am

    #114
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    Re: Odds of US attacking Iran within the next 24 months?

Much ado about nothing.

This is marketing, big boy style. At stake is the largest arms sale ever attempted on the planet, $60 bn to Saudi Arabia. This is US interests talking the book drumming up some extra motivation to close the deal of the century.

Next, in a year or two the same US arms dealers will approach Israel with the pitch to upgrade their diminishing firepower, to counter the Saudi’s newfound mobilization. No doubt this will include technology heretofore withheld as too sensitive, as US defense contractors will have already backfilled the upgrade path with more sophisticated features for US use only, to be withheld until next time.

And after a few more years to let the amnesia set in once again, Iran will once again be a “friend and ally” in the region, and of course, be propositioned to an even larger arms sale to counter the Israelis and Saudi’s recent upgrades.

The message- you can have all the firepower you want, as long as you buy it from us, when we say you can, and when you fit into the regions’ procurement cycle.

 

 

The Obama administration formally notified Congress yesterday that it is to sell $60bn of weapons to Saudi Arabia, a move designed to boost the US arms industry and help counter growing Iranian power.

The deal, the biggest arms sale in US history, was disclosed last month but the administration, as required by law, has first to seek Congressional approval. Congress has 30 days to block the deal.

“This proposed sale has tremendous significance from a strategic regional perspective,” said Andrew Shapiro, the assistant secretary of state for political and military affairs who announced the deal.

“It will send a strong message to countries in the region that we are committed to support the security of our key partners and allies in the Arabian Gulf and broader Middle East. And it will enhance Saudi Arabia’s ability to deter and defend against threats to its borders and to its oil infrastructure, which is critical to our economic interests.”

The US claims Iran is building a nuclear weapons capability, which Tehran denies. Even without a nuclear weapon, Iran has benefited from the changes in regime in Iraq and Afghanistan, allowing it to expand its influence.

The US is hoping to contain Iran by building up the defences of Saudi Arabia and the neighbouring Gulf states.

  • Sun, Oct 31, 2010 - 04:33am

    #115
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    Re: Odds of US attacking Iran within the next 24 months?

[quote=darbikrash]

Much ado about nothing.

This is marketing, big boy style. At stake is the largest arms sale ever attempted on the planet, $60 bn to Saudi Arabia. This is US interests talking the book drumming up some extra motivation to close the deal of the century.

Next, in a year or two the same US arms dealers will approach Israel with the pitch to upgrade their diminishing firepower, to counter the Saudi’s newfound mobilization. No doubt this will include technology heretofore withheld as too sensitive, as US defense contractors will have already backfilled the upgrade path with more sophisticated features for US use only, to be withheld until next time.

And after a few more years to let the amnesia set in once again, Iran will once again be a “friend and ally” in the region, and of course, be propositioned to an even larger arms sale to counter the Israelis and Saudi’s recent upgrades.

The message- you can have all the firepower you want, as long as you buy it from us, when we say you can, and when you fit into the regions’ procurement cycle.

 

 

The Obama administration formally notified Congress yesterday that it is to sell $60bn of weapons to Saudi Arabia, a move designed to boost the US arms industry and help counter growing Iranian power.

The deal, the biggest arms sale in US history, was disclosed last month but the administration, as required by law, has first to seek Congressional approval. Congress has 30 days to block the deal.

“This proposed sale has tremendous significance from a strategic regional perspective,” said Andrew Shapiro, the assistant secretary of state for political and military affairs who announced the deal.

“It will send a strong message to countries in the region that we are committed to support the security of our key partners and allies in the Arabian Gulf and broader Middle East. And it will enhance Saudi Arabia’s ability to deter and defend against threats to its borders and to its oil infrastructure, which is critical to our economic interests.”

The US claims Iran is building a nuclear weapons capability, which Tehran denies. Even without a nuclear weapon, Iran has benefited from the changes in regime in Iraq and Afghanistan, allowing it to expand its influence.

The US is hoping to contain Iran by building up the defences of Saudi Arabia and the neighbouring Gulf states.

[/quote]

 

Thanks so much for that assessment. Of course this is how it works.  Those who fail  to see what is going on here, are being operated like puppets; their nationalism, sense of “outrage”, brute ignorance pulled like strings.

  • Sun, Oct 31, 2010 - 04:34am

    #116
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    Re: Odds of US attacking Iran within the next 24 months?

V, I forgot to ask:  Did you also also also forget that Japan could have cut their nuclear casualties roughly in half by surrendering after this first bomb, rather than stubbornly awaiting the second?  Could it have been that they were ruled not by democracy, but by the whims of a mad man?  That time, the people of the mad-man’s country paid for their ruler’s folly.  In Iran’s case, it may unfortunately be the Israeli people who pay, but I doubt it and hope they will not allow it to come to that.

  • Sun, Oct 31, 2010 - 06:52am

    #117
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    Re: The Hubris Of Empire

[quote=Farmer Brown]

[quote=V]

[quote=agitating prop]

[quote=Johnny Oxygen]

Iran Says It Has Begun Loading Fuel at Nuclear Reactor

 

 

TEHRAN — Iran said on Tuesday that it had begun loading the first of 163 fuel rods into the core of its first nuclear reactor, set to go into operation early next year, and vowed to pursue nuclear activities “in other areas.”

Iran’s nuclear program has spread deep concerns in the West because governments, including the United States, believe Tehran has ambitions to build a nuclear weapon and do not accept its denials.

[/quote]

 

God help the U.S. and other Nato countries, and Israel if a large country in the Middle East is able to defend itself against wars of aggression. If we can’t pound them back to the stone age, what bargaining chips do we have left at our disposal?

[/quote]

AP could not have said it better myself. I would add fOr the benefit of   warmongering right wing republicans, Iran is one of the oldest civilizations on the planet. They have as much right as anyone, including the only country on the planet to have used nuclear weapons on a civilian population, and has threatened other countries as recently as the last administration (which happened to be republican) to have a nuclear weapons program. This is a red herring which less enlightened MSM hypnotized automatons nit only believe but propagate.

I guess some out there are sad to see Rahm go. I guess Israel has it’s sghts on Chicago.

V

ps If I were a country with the oil reserves of Iran I would have had a nuclear deterrent a long time ago.

[/quote]

Who cares how long they’ve been around?  Does that make them right about wiping Israel off the map?  And, you cannot equivocate the rantings and ravings of a lunatic in a members-only jacket (if it was only the straight-jacket model I’d be thrilled) whose hold on power is at the barrel of a gun (well, and the ordainment of a lunatic mullah or two) with the the desires and wishes of the citizens of Iran.  If they were an established democratic regime, I would agree with letting them have the bomb but they are not.  Democracies do not go to war with each other.  Lunatics not only do so, but they depend on it in order t keep a “bigger monkey” on their subjects backs.  As for the US being the only country to have used nuclear weapons, what’s your point?  It was in self defense, or did you forget the Japanese attacked the US first?  Did you also forget that estimates for invading Japan surmounted 1,000,000 US troops and who knows who many Japanese?  Quite frankly, we probably did them a favor as much as we did ourselves one.

[/quote]

This does not deserve any of my time. Come back when you have some real info to share.

V

PS I for one would love to see Israel wiped off the map. But if you are referring to Ahmedinajad’s comment He never said it. 

  • Sun, Oct 31, 2010 - 07:20am

    #118
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    Re: Odds of US attacking Iran within the next 24 months?

[quote=darbikrash]

Much ado about nothing.

This is marketing, big boy style. At stake is the largest arms sale ever attempted on the planet, $60 bn to Saudi Arabia. This is US interests talking the book drumming up some extra motivation to close the deal of the century.

Next, in a year or two the same US arms dealers will approach Israel with the pitch to upgrade their diminishing firepower, to counter the Saudi’s newfound mobilization. No doubt this will include technology heretofore withheld as too sensitive, as US defense contractors will have already backfilled the upgrade path with more sophisticated features for US use only, to be withheld until next time.

And after a few more years to let the amnesia set in once again, Iran will once again be a “friend and ally” in the region, and of course, be propositioned to an even larger arms sale to counter the Israelis and Saudi’s recent upgrades.

The message- you can have all the firepower you want, as long as you buy it from us, when we say you can, and when you fit into the regions’ procurement cycle.

 

 

The Obama administration formally notified Congress yesterday that it is to sell $60bn of weapons to Saudi Arabia, a move designed to boost the US arms industry and help counter growing Iranian power.

The deal, the biggest arms sale in US history, was disclosed last month but the administration, as required by law, has first to seek Congressional approval. Congress has 30 days to block the deal.

“This proposed sale has tremendous significance from a strategic regional perspective,” said Andrew Shapiro, the assistant secretary of state for political and military affairs who announced the deal.

“It will send a strong message to countries in the region that we are committed to support the security of our key partners and allies in the Arabian Gulf and broader Middle East. And it will enhance Saudi Arabia’s ability to deter and defend against threats to its borders and to its oil infrastructure, which is critical to our economic interests.”

The US claims Iran is building a nuclear weapons capability, which Tehran denies. Even without a nuclear weapon, Iran has benefited from the changes in regime in Iraq and Afghanistan, allowing it to expand its influence.

The US is hoping to contain Iran by building up the defences of Saudi Arabia and the neighbouring Gulf states.

[/quote]

As cynical as this sounds, it’s really how things work in our Permanent War Economy.

…The US economy is war based and has always been so. Expansions following contractions have been due to wars. Its not as if the US will not enter another war but more so where. The possible theatres are the Korean Peninsula, Iran or Pakistan. A war will be the catalyst that will flush the economic pipeline towards a business expansion, high profits, full employment of 4-5% and a GDP growth of 4-6% over 3-5 years. Every major expansion cycle has followed a war. The 1991-2001 trough to peak expansion followed the Gulf War and the 2002-2008 trough to peak expansion followed the Afghanistan and Iraq wars . The average peak to trough recession and trough to peak expansion cycles have been historically 10 months and 57 months, respectively. The US has barely nudged out of a recession over the past 10 months. If the historical business cycles in the US are any indicators, the US will likely enter another war between 2011 and 2012 to commence the business cycle of trough to peak expansion.

It should be borne in mind that China is the biggest creditor nation of the US. As reported in The Washington Times of 2 March 2010, according to Simon Johnson, Professor of Economics at MIT, it is estimated that China holds $ 1 trillion in US Treasury securities which is approximately 42-45% of the total Treasury debt held by “foreign ownership”. By no means is China the banker for the US; the world is. In the same Washington Times news, Major General Luo Yuan of Peoples Liberation Army and member of Chinese People’s Political Consultative Conference (CPPCC), said that China could sanction the US by economic means such as dumping US government bonds. China is now the second largest economy outstripping Japan but the US is far more advanced in economic and monetary management. By no means can China threaten economic sanctions on the US nor is its military and political strength equal to that of the US which is mainly due to the North Atlantic alliance. China stands out as a finger in strength whereas the alliance is like five fingers than make up a fist.

China and Russia have both supported the Iran sanctions and that they do not intend to be left out of a business expansion due to the forthcoming war, most likely in Iran. China and Russia have been past beneficiaries of Afghanistan and Iraq wars also. There is no bigger corporate profits, higher government taxes and consumer spending than in wars. But the costs in human lives and sufferings cannot be condoned.

The next war will economically benefit the UN-5—US, UK, France, Russia and China—as well as their allies. The UN-5 need to sell and test their military hardware by replenishing their existing inventory in a war and sell the outdated ones to the Arabs, share the spoils of war and begin production of the next generation of deadly weapons for the next after next war. Even the existing generation of conventional weapons and WMDs can wipe off this civilization to a great extent. If all goes as per Iran plan, Pakistan may be next. My good friend NH reminded me the other day of Arundhati Roy’s words “superpowers don’t need friends; they only need agents”. The only three remaining non-agents of USA or better yet UN-5 are Iran, Syria and N. Korea, jointly the axis of evil.

 

 

  • Sun, Oct 31, 2010 - 08:35am

    #119
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    Re: The Hubris Of Empire

[quote=Farmer Brown]

Who cares how long they’ve been around? Does that make them right about wiping Israel off the map? And, you cannot equivocate the rantings and ravings of a lunatic in a members-only jacket (if it was only the straight-jacket model I’d be thrilled) whose hold on power is at the barrel of a gun (well, and the ordainment of a lunatic mullah or two) with the the desires and wishes of the citizens of Iran.  If they were an established democratic regime, I would agree with letting them have the bomb but they are not.  Democracies do not go to war with each other.  Lunatics not only do so, but they depend on it in order t keep a “bigger monkey” on their subjects backs.  As for the US being the only country to have used nuclear weapons, what’s your point?  It was in self defense, or did you forget the Japanese attacked the US first?  Did you also forget that estimates for invading Japan surmounted 1,000,000 US troops and who knows who many Japanese?  Quite frankly, we probably did them a favor as much as we did ourselves one.

[/quote]

Patrick,

No offence, but the line that I’ve darkened above is a phrase that has been force fed into the minds of the people of the United States since it was misquoted and run with over four years ago now. It was formed by the usual multi-media culprits. Whenever I see this misquote, I do my best to educate how it came about. This video below is correct in every way : –

Hunt down this book by Noam Chomsky called What We Say Goes, and read the sections on Iran. From the original democracy that brought Mosaddegh to power in 1951, through to his subsequent fall by intervention of the CIA with a coup de etat, what is evolving politically today has its roots firmly established in the past. What happens next in Iran is a continuing series of blow-backs, as a cause and effect that was begun by the United Kingdom, and the United States.

I leave you with the words of the then Prime Minister, Mohammed Mosaddegh, on the 21st of June 1951, and ask whether there is more to compare the past with the present than that which is promoted to our nation’s today, who’s people today, and without thought and study of their own, have more belief in the facts that are filtered daily into their homes by the box in their living-rooms; as proof by the lack of viable and relevant reading material on their empty book-shelves.

[quote=Prime Minister Mohammed Mosaddegh]

“Our long years of negotiations with foreign countries… have yielded no results this far. With the oil revenues we could meet our entire budget and combat poverty, disease, and backwardness among our people. Another important consideration is that by the elimination of the power of the British company, we would also eliminate corruption and intrigue, by means of which the internal affairs of our country have been influenced. Once this tutelage has ceased, Iran will have achieved its economic and political independence.
The Iranian state prefers to take over the production of petroleum itself. The company should do nothing else but return its property to the rightful owners. The nationalization law provide that 25% of the net profits on oil be set aside to meet all the legitimate claims of the company for compensation…
It has been asserted abroad that Iran intends to expel the foreign oil experts from the country and then shut down oil installations. Not only is this allegation absurd; it is utter invention…

[/quote]

~ VF ~

  • Sun, Oct 31, 2010 - 12:36pm

    #120
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    Re: The Hubris Of Empire

 

[quote=V]

V

PS I for one would love to see Israel wiped off the map. 

[/quote]

Wow.  You really might want to think about retracting that comment.  But thanks for letting us all know exactly where you stand.

  • Sun, Oct 31, 2010 - 12:45pm

    #121
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    Re: The Hubris Of Empire

[quote=VanityFox]

Patrick,

No offence, but the line that I’ve darkened above is a phrase that has been force fed into the minds of the people of the United States since it was misquoted and run with over four years ago now. It was formed by the usual multi-media culprits. Whenever I see this misquote, I do my best to educate how it came about. This video below is correct in every way : –

[/quote]

You have got to be kidding.  That wasn’t much of a misquote if at all.  What he said after the famous line may make it sound as if all he wants is democracy, but that’s pretty hard to believe given all his other rants, and his denial of the holocaust.  Or is that a misquote too?  Look, I have no illusions about the US’s past motives for war or its policy in the middle east, but as bad as any of that may have been, it would pale in comparison to what the Ahmadinijads of the world would do with it if they held it in their hands.

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