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Occupy Wall Street – a first hand assessment

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  • Fri, Oct 07, 2011 - 12:31pm

    #71
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    Doug wrote:Wow, Chris is going to Wall Street

[quote=Doug]

Wow, Chris is going to Wall St.  His feedback should be very illuminating.

Doug

[/quote]

Do you have a link to that bit of info?

  • Fri, Oct 07, 2011 - 01:07pm

    #72
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    Wall St

[quote=xraymike79]

[quote=Doug]

Wow, Chris is going to Wall St.  His feedback should be very illuminating.

Doug

[/quote]

Do you have a link to that bit of info?

[/quote]

Today’s Insider article.  I guess its alright to divulge that bit of info.  I assumed the paragraph or so that appears when I open the site was public.  I guess I’m wrong

Doug

  • Fri, Oct 07, 2011 - 01:17pm

    #73
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    video of OWS protester

This vid suggests that not all the protesters are left wing hippies:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFz1VVXsWRU&feature=player_embedded#!

Doug

  • Fri, Oct 07, 2011 - 01:25pm

    #74
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    Progressive / Libertarian alliance?

[quote=xraymike79]

Don’t we have enough common ground for an alliance:

"Look at the latitude," Nader says, referring to the potential for cooperation between libertarians and the left. "Military budget, foreign wars, empire, Patriot Act, corporate welfare—for starters. When you add those all up, that’s a foundational convergence. Progressives should do so good."

"Libertarians like Ron Paul are on our side on civil liberties. They’re on our side against the military-industrial complex. They’re on our side against Wall Street. They’re on our side for investor rights. That’s a foundational convergence," he exhorts. "It’s not just itty-bitty stuff."

 "Ron Paul has always been anti-corporate, anti-Federal Reserve, anti-big banks, anti-bailouts," Nader says. "I mean, they view him in the same way they view me on a lot of these issues. Did you see the latest poll? He’s like two points behind Obama."

http://reason.com/blog/2011/09/28/ralph-nader-hearts-ron-paul-ha

[/quote]

At one time I actually thought there might be enough but based upon the interactions we have had around here, I am not optimistic.  We seem to spend far more time concentrating on the issues where we differ than on those that we can find common ground.  Just read a few posts around here from those on each side of this divide.  Contempt seems to seep through these interactions in ways that can only be considered discouraging.

I hope that I am wrong but my guess is that the OWS will be captured by the left, much like the tea party has largely been captured by the right.  If that happens, there will be very little about OWS that would appeal to most libertarians, much less conservatives.

  • Fri, Oct 07, 2011 - 01:36pm

    #75
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    Will we ever grow up?

Realizing what’s in store for civilization over the next 100 years has a tendency to sober you up and look past ideological differences. I would vote for a Ron Paul/Nader ticket.

  • Fri, Oct 07, 2011 - 03:40pm

    #76
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    Live locally – not just for farming – path to smaller government

[quote=Doug]

This vid suggests that not all the protesters are left wing hippies:

[/quote]

Unfortunately I’m guessing that there are few people at the rallys that understand the role of the Fed in all this mess.  It was like that at the Tea parties as well (I attended several in DC and ABQ).  The one exception was the End the Fed rally in DC.

I look at it that we will have a smaller central government no matter what happens.  If we have more limited energy in the future (most of us here probably believe that), then we must have smaller government since large complex organizations need lots of energy.  We also know that we are broke and eventually that hen will come home to roost as well.  Once we can no longer effectively print money for things and have to start taxing that will also put pressure to reduce government and services dramatically.  If you believe this is correct then it’s much better for us to begin dismantling the large centralized government now while we can still manage it.  Start weening people from the government/Fed teat.   My worst fear is that we continue to try to maintain this large bureaucracy (evidence so far say yes – and even to grow it) then it becomes brutal (witness TSA, FDA raids, war on drugs, …) to try and maintain control.

I also have a hard time understand why when you suggest things like eliminate DOE (department of energy, department of education – take your pick) and people freak out.  Yet those same people talk about living locally.  How come living locally works well for farming, but not for education?

I also have a hard time believing this will turn out well, because it is clearly aimed at class warfare and not at correcting the underlying problems.  From the occupy Albuquerque site:

a local resistance protesting the 1% that own 50% of everything.
We will not be intimidated and silent anymore with our civil resistance and street protests. We will no longer tolerate the greed and corruption of the 1%. We represent people of many colors, genders and political persuasions. We have lost our jobs, houses, future, everything…while the fat cats on Wall Street get richer and drink their champagne.  

No mention of the Fed, no mention of government involvement.  Nope just anger about others who have more.  Lot’s of hypocrisy about greed.  Most have no clue that even if you got rid of the few  "fat cats on Wall Street" it would make no difference.  If you haven’t watch the "Eat the Rich" video, it’s puts this into perspective. All will have to have a lower standard of living due to our past excess. 

Soon I’m sure we will see burning of businesses, riots, police and swat teams, etc.  All this leads to even more involvement by government to protect us…….  I wonder which group will become the scapegoat that gives rise to a dictator – Muslims, Jews, rich, banker, business owners, ????  Right now they are coming for the rich, who will be next when eliminating the rich doesn’t solve the problem?

 

 

  • Fri, Oct 07, 2011 - 03:57pm

    #77
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    Doug wrote: This vid

[quote=Doug]

This vid suggests that not all the protesters are left wing hippies:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?=tFz1VVXsWRU&feature=player_embedded#!

Doug 

[/quote]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFz1VVXsWRU

Thanks for sharing Doug, I really enjoyed it.

  • Fri, Oct 07, 2011 - 04:36pm

    #79
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    Powerful interview

 

 

http://www.cbc.ca/video/#/News/Business/1239849460/ID=2149202610

  • Fri, Oct 07, 2011 - 04:37pm

    #78
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    And who has really been waging and winning the ‘Class Warfare’?

[quote=rhare]

I also have a hard time believing this will turn out well, because it is clearly aimed at class warfare and not at correcting the underlying problems.  From the occupy Albuquerque site:

a local resistance protesting the 1% that own 50% of everything.
We will not be intimidated and silent anymore with our civil resistance and street protests. We will no longer tolerate the greed and corruption of the 1%. We represent people of many colors, genders and political persuasions. We have lost our jobs, houses, future, everything…while the fat cats on Wall Street get richer and drink their champagne.  

No mention of the Fed, no mention of government involvement.  Nope just anger about others who have more.  Lot’s of hypocrisy about greed.  Most have no clue that even if you got rid of the few  "fat cats on Wall Street" it would make no difference.  If you haven’t watch the "Eat the Rich" video, it’s puts this into perspective. All will have to have a lower standard of living due to our past excess. 

Soon I’m sure we will see burning of businesses, riots, police and swat teams, etc.  All this leads to even more involvement by government to protect us…….  I wonder which group will become the scapegoat that gives rise to a dictator – Muslims, Jews, rich, banker, business owners, ????  Right now they are coming for the rich, who will be next when eliminating the rich doesn’t solve the problem?

[/quote]

I buy bits of your argument, but then you lose me when you go off on this poor vs. rich mantra. It’s not about "anger about others who have more." Rather, it’s about anger at how these people at the top amassed their wealth(‘crony’ capitalism) and how they continue to reap the windfalls of being able to buy the elections and control legislation, as was explained in Doug’s video. So you need to understand that point to improve your argument.

Get the money out of politics. Decreasing the size of government without dealing with the concentrated corporate power over the political system is only solving half the problem.

  • Fri, Oct 07, 2011 - 05:09pm

    #80
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    xraymike wrote:Rather, it’s

xraymike wrote:

Rather, it’s about anger at how these people at the top amassed their wealth(‘crony’ capitalism) and how they continue to reap the windfalls of being able to buy the elections and control legislation, as was explained in Doug’s video.

This is exactly what OWS is about.

I really enjoed that excellant video from a OWS protestor that clearly know whats going on and what to do about it. If only all the protestors would speak so clearly.

Rich

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