Occupy Wall Street – a first hand assessment

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  • Sat, Oct 29, 2011 - 12:51pm

    #231
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    In response to..

This may be in response to a bit of controversy I saw reported recently. I recall that the bank that was holding the 300K OWS has gained from donations is now under investigation. They may be reacting to the media picking up on the story.

  • Sat, Oct 29, 2011 - 01:46pm

    #232
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    Forum Post: Goldman Sachs

Forum Post: Goldman Sachs threatens OWS credit union bank.

I haven’t heard about the Credit Union being under investigation but seems like GS is panic mode.

Goldman Sachs has threatened to to transfer credit union funds, worth about 1 billion dollars, if credit union does not shut down OWS bank account. I think we need to devise another banking system for OWS. A system that cannot be threatened by the likes of Goldman Sachs. The ironic part is that Goldman is a shadow bank that took billions of public funds; thanks to our socialism for the rich program in this country, yet they are threatening we the people after we bail them out…..This is the ultimate form of blackmail. An affront to the American people. Even terrorists don’t despise us this badly.

 

Democracy Now! talks to investigative reporter Greg Palast about a controversy in the banking community around the Occupy Wall Street movement. Palast investigates the story behind Goldman Sachs’ recent decision to pull out of a fundraiser for the Lower East Side People’s Federal Credit Union in New York City after it learned the event was honoring the protesters at Occupy Wall Street. The investment bank withdrew its name from the fundraiser and also canceled a $5,000 pledge. Was the $5,000 a Goldman Sachs donation or actually American taxpayer bail-out money Goldman set aside for community banks?

 

  • Sat, Oct 29, 2011 - 03:27pm

    #233
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    The problem with Godverment…. (not a misspelling)

The OWS movement is going down a dangerous path in which mob rule and ruin will follow. Democracies are dangerous, it’s why we founded a Republic. The Casey report newsletter had a great article about it this week:

http://www.caseyresearch.com/cdd/problem-godvernment

  • Sat, Oct 29, 2011 - 03:40pm

    #234
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    rhare wrote:The OWS

[quote=rhare]

The OWS movement is going down a dangerous path in which mob rule and ruin will follow. Democracies are dangerous, it’s why we founded a Republic. The Casey report newsletter had a great article about it this week:

http://www.caseyresearch.com/cdd/problem-godvernment

[/quote]

 

Right.

But OWS didn’t appear out of nowhere.

Its cause and effect. If their becomes a mob rule it isn’t because of the OWS folks. Its because the government failed to represent the people. That is what leads to mob rule.

  • Sat, Oct 29, 2011 - 04:22pm

    #235
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    Johnny Oxygen wrote: rhare

[quote=Johnny Oxygen]

[quote=rhare]

The OWS movement is going down a dangerous path in which mob rule and ruin will follow. Democracies are dangerous, it’s why we founded a Republic. The Casey report newsletter had a great article about it this week:

http://www.caseyresearch.com/cdd/problem-godvernment

[/quote]

Right.

But OWS didn’t appear out of nowhere.

Its cause and effect. If their becomes a mob rule it isn’t because of the OWS folks. Its because the government failed to represent the people. That is what leads to mob rule.

[/quote]

 

 "Its because the government failed to represent the people." – a truth that cannot be refuted.

 

Another imploration for the ever-wishful and well-worn "free market fantasy" by casey research. Of course a free market would solve environmental degradation, climate change, ocean acidification, peak oil, overpopulation, mass species extinction, across-the-board resource depletion, etc…

There is no accounting for externalities or eco-damage in the free market that only measures profits.,. the very basis of ‘free market’ capitalism is exploitation for profit. In capitalism there is a natural process of concentration of business in fewer and fewer hands. The larger companies purchase the smaller companies to gain more competitive advantages due to "economy of scale". The final result is oligopolies which usurp all levers of government and mainstream news media.

It’s not the "government" that matters, but those who control it. Over the past 30 years (regardless of party) you will find more and more direct involvement of corporations and financial institutions in the creation — as opposed to the support or opposition — of legislation. Bush’s energy policy is a high-profile example: the committee that drafted that legislative policy was made up almost entirely of oil company officials — not legislators, not citizens, not academics or independent experts, but people directly and actively working within the oil industry. The same was true for pharmaceutical legislation during that administration and during the current administration. So to say it is the government that sets up the rules for business is inaccurate. It is big business that sets up the rules for government.

 

  • Sat, Oct 29, 2011 - 11:25pm

    #236
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    rhare wrote:The OWS

[quote=rhare]

The OWS movement is going down a dangerous path in which mob rule and ruin will follow. Democracies are dangerous, it’s why we founded a Republic. The Casey report newsletter had a great article about it this week:

http://www.caseyresearch.com/cdd/problem-godvernment%5B/quote%5D

Can you be more specific? Have you participated in an Occupy event? In what way is "The OWS movement going down a dangerous path?" What specific demands is OWS making?

From the article.

So, here’s a proposal: let’s give the OWS people everything they want – let them rewrite the Constitution!

What specifically does OWS as a group want, not Casey’s opinion?

For example, the OWS, among many others, want the government to put its god-like fingers around the throats of the greedy bankers and choke the stuffing out of them. Sentencing Raj Rajaratnam, a man with advanced diabetes and failing kidneys, to death (the inevitable result of his 11-year sentence) for insider trading has nothing to do with justice but everything to do with mollifying the mob.

Sounds like a fantasy to me. I have attended and participated in many Occupy events in 2 cities in Florida and had very similar experiences as Karl Denninger writes about, here: But The News Said They’re All Marxists?, here: Well, We Know Who The Felons Are – They Wear Badges, here: The Tea Party Goes To OWS, Part 1 – 4 and Occupy Pensacola: Alleged "Conservatives" Better Wake Up. I didn’t hear anyone asking government to have a vote that would let it "put its god-like fingers around the throats" of any one. There are NO demands.

The linked article is an opinion about and called "The Problem with Godvernment" where the author equates "mob rule" with democracy and then makes a feeble attempt to associate OWS with Iceland because he was not happy with Iceland’s democracy. I admit, OWS is quilty of believing in a democracy that many of us learned in school.

  • Sat, Oct 29, 2011 - 11:55pm

    #237
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    Mythical benevolent government

[quote=frobn]

Can you be more specific? Have you participated in an Occupy event? In what way is "The OWS movement going down a dangerous path?" What specific demands is OWS making?

[/quote]

No I have not participated, because what I have seen, read, and witnessed from coverage from both sides leads me to believe that the OWS protest is in general advocating more government involvement in our lives.  This can also be observed in their list of demands:

  • Demand one: Restoration of the living wage.
  • Demand two: Institute a universal single payer healthcare system.
  • Demand three: Guaranteed living wage income regardless of employment.
  • Demand four: Free college education.
  • Demand five: Begin a fast track process to bring the fossil fuel economy to an end while at the same bringing the alternative energy economy up to energy demand.
  • Demand six: One trillion dollars in infrastructure (Water, Sewer, Rail, Roads and Bridges and Electrical Grid) spending now.
  • Demand seven: One trillion dollars in ecological restoration planting forests, reestablishing wetlands and the natural flow of river systems and decommissioning of all of America’s nuclear power plants.
  • Demand eight: Racial and gender equal rights amendment.
  • Demand nine: Open borders migration. anyone can travel anywhere to work and live.
  • Demand ten: Bring American elections up to international standards of a paper ballot precinct counted and recounted in front of an independent and party observers system.
  • Demand eleven: Immediate across the board debt forgiveness for all.
  • Demand twelve: Outlaw all credit reporting agencies.
  • Demand thirteen: Allow all workers to sign a ballot at any time during a union organizing campaign or at any time that represents their yeah or nay to having a union represent them in collective bargaining or to form a union.

That list of demands certainly seems to advocate much more government involvement in our lives which I believe is the root cause of the mess we are in.  So NO, I won’t partake in the OWS movement because I believe the outcome many are seeking will be even worse than what we have today.  Yes, it is mob rule, and to meet the demands above require that individuals give up more rights to be properly herded by some mythical benevolent government.

 

  • Sun, Oct 30, 2011 - 01:20am

    #238
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    rhare,Please note that your

rhare,

Please note that your "list of demands" comes with this disclaimer: (from your link)

"Admin note: This is not an official list of demands. This is a forum post submitted by a single user and hyped by irresponsible news/commentary agencies like Fox News and Mises.org. This content was not published by the OccupyWallSt.org collective, nor was it ever proposed or agreed to on a consensus basis with the NYC General Assembly. There is NO official list of demands".


  • Sun, Oct 30, 2011 - 01:48am

    #239
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    MarkM wrote:rhare,Please

[quote=MarkM]

rhare,

Please note that your "list of demands" comes with this disclaimer: (from your link)

"Admin note: This is not an official list of demands. This is a forum post submitted by a single user and hyped by irresponsible news/commentary agencies like Fox News and Mises.org. This content was not published by the OccupyWallSt.org collective, nor was it ever proposed or agreed to on a consensus basis with the NYC General Assembly. There is NO official list of demands".


[/quote]You beat me to it.[quote=rhare]No I have not participated, because what I have seen, read, and witnessed from coverage from both sides leads me to believe that the OWS protest is in general advocating more government involvement in our lives.  [/quote]What specifically have you seen or witnessed for yourself? You seem to miss or purposely ignore OWS, itself, first hand accounts and new outlets that accurately report what OWS says, namely "there is no official list of demands."

 

 

  • Mon, Oct 31, 2011 - 06:22am

    #240
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    frobn wrote:MarkM

[quote=frobn]

[quote=MarkM]

rhare,

Please note that your "list of demands" comes with this disclaimer: (from your link)

"Admin note: This is not an official list of demands. This is a forum post submitted by a single user and hyped by irresponsible news/commentary agencies like Fox News and Mises.org. This content was not published by the OccupyWallSt.org collective, nor was it ever proposed or agreed to on a consensus basis with the NYC General Assembly. There is NO official list of demands".

 

[quote=rhare]No I have not participated, because what I have seen, read, and witnessed from coverage from both sides leads me to believe that the OWS protest is in general advocating more government involvement in our lives.  [/quote]What specifically have you seen or witnessed for yourself? You seem to miss or purposely ignore OWS, itself, first hand accounts and new outlets that accurately report what OWS says, namely "there is no official list of demands."  [/quote]

Please don’t try to tell rhare anything. Have mercy. He has already (quoted above) said he doesn’t know what he is talking about. but he has all the proof he needs since some ideologue he agrees with has spoken. You will not succeed in changing his opinion. I’m from the most red meat red state in the USofA and deal with those who think like him daily. They believe what they believe and aren’t open to evidence. Not a knock on conservatives. I’m conservative on many issues and know others, quite like me , who are more than open to ‘the times they are a changin’. It was in the CM forums (maybe this one, maybe not) an explanation of the ‘authoritarian personality’ was given. Not what you think if you haven’t been educated, but it refers to those who blindly accept and believe in who they consider the authority figures in their lives.

This thread has too many people, who don’t even pay enough attention to read the name of the thread (Occupy Wall Street – a first hand assessment) Why are their opinions considered on this topic? They are irrelevant to the stated purpose of this conversation. Now, I have to admit my experience is second hand. I am living vicariously through my extremely intelligent, publically educated children. My heavy reader ex and I disciplined them oursleves and made sure they knew their 3R’s. With our input and public education they came out smarter than many of the people who post on CM forums. A major reason I don’t post. But, I can’t leave my 88 year old mother alone long enough to spend more than ultra-minimum time with the OccupyOKC movement, i.e. I only went once and only long enough to look around, but I liked what I saw.

 

P.S.  rhare if your name is Randy and you are from MWC then I know you. Call me mofo, you know I respect you. You know I won’t give in any easier than you will.

 

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