North Korea renounces 1953 truce

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  • Mon, Jun 01, 2009 - 07:18am

    #151
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    In Memory Of James Frederick Ferrier …

Sam,

Epistomology

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epistemology

" Belief is a subjective personal basis for individual behavior, while truth is an objective state independent of the individual. On occasion, knowledge and belief can conflict producing "cognitive dissonance". "

The Aristotelian definition of truth states:

"To say of something which is that it is not, or to say of something which is not that it is, is false. However, to say of something which is that it is, or of something which is not that it is not, is true."

… Therein lies the rub …

Best,

Paul

  • Tue, Jun 02, 2009 - 12:43am

    #152
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    Re: North Korea renounces 1953 truce

[quote=agitating prop]

[quote=SamLinder]

[quote=agitating prop]

Banished to the Gulag. I bet I can log onto other threads and help make them just as controversial, and do it quite easily and honestly, without using the words, hu-manatee, turgid or effete.

[/quote]

You are not funny. You, and a couple of other agitators, have hijacked this thread and destroyed it. Now you think it would be fun to see if you can do the same to other threads. If you try to do so, you may well find yourself with a one-way exit ticket off this site. I, for one, would not be disappointed.

[/quote]

…and you would say, "See you later, Agitator" after I denied the Allegations and the Alligator. 

It’s amusing that I would be accused of destroying a thread that received over 1000 views in 2 days and over 100 responses, largely through my ability to get people communicating. I think I did rather well navigating through some of the condescending remarks and unprovoked barbs. On the other hand, being stuck in the bottom bunk of a cell in Siberia with you offers some intriguing possibilites. Perhaps I can exchange some of my gruel for some freedom of speech?

[/quote]

My last post was partly in jest, but it was also a gentle reminder to some in the future to not distract too much from the topic of the thread and to be more considerate and less incendiary.  Freedom of speech is not at question; one just needs to remember that most threads here are not a free-for-all, there are rules involved in posting (in a sense we are guests in someone else’s "house"), and the tone or how one says something is often as important as what is said.  And you’re giving yourself credit for making the thread "controversial" and for the number or quantity of responses and views, but that is not the point.  The point here is the quality of information, and to share that information and insights with each other to gain knowledge.  For every read or response your posts may have attracted, you may have driven off another reader/poster (that could have gained or contributed knowledge) by playing the blame-game on things that had little or nothing to do with the topic of the thread.  I was getting a little weary following the thread myself (and I was the one who started it), and if I intended this to be in the Controversial Threads area I would have started it there.  I’m not singling you out by any means, it’s just from your last comments that it seemed you missed the point and focus of most of these forums.  Again, these forums are a little more structured than most, and may take some time reading through them to acclimate.

– Nickbert

  • Tue, Jun 02, 2009 - 03:08am

    #154
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    Re: North Korea renounces 1953 truce

You just don’t get it ‘agitating prop’. I tried to be subtle with my initial post to you when I said, "It’s not what you say, it’s how you say it."

Information can be provided politely or insultingly. You have primarily chosen the latter. Although you have been advised by others on this thread (including the moderator) to "cool your jets", you apparently still feel the need to barge into our living room and act like a jerk and then wonder, wide-eyed, why everyone is so upset with you.

Instead of constantly defending your right to be a jerk in our house, how about you step back, realize how you have behaved, apologize and promise to be a better guest. Then, maybe we can all start over and exchange information and concerns in a polite fashion.

The onus is on you.

  • Tue, Jun 02, 2009 - 04:28am

    #155
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    Re: North Korea renounces 1953 truce

[quote=SamLinder]

Instead of constantly defending your right to be a jerk in our house, how about you step back, realize how you have behaved, apologize and promise to be a better guest. Then, maybe we can all start over and exchange information and concerns in a polite fashion.

The onus is on you.

[/quote]

I have apologized to the moderator, for teasing some sensitive souls a bit and accept my part of the blame for having the thread placed here.  If you continue to harass and insult me, as you have just done, I’ll have no other choice than to flag your post. Enough is enough.

  • Tue, Jun 02, 2009 - 02:04pm

    #156
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    Re: North Korea renounces 1953 truce

Ok lets simmer down on this a little, even though it’s in the controversial topics section.

Prop, yes, you’re agitating, and yes, you appear to have an irritating tone in writing, it could be that there is an assumed overtone to your comments that others (and I) am picking up that is not intended or even might be intended but I can’t say since I don’t know you personally and have never spoken with you to find out, So to use Sam’s analogy and with all due respect I’ll treat you like the cousin that comes to family get togethers, that’s a little touchy, but still part of the family. You have different qualities that make you of benefit so I’ve no specific opinion positively or not about you. The same can’t be said of certain others involved in this thread, who have been here longer and should know better. Anyway at the end of the day it’s not my party, I’m just a guest too.

Sam, you’re great, and I know you value polite discourse, but drawing attention to your observations isn’t helping, and perhaps is making Prop more defensive than is warranted, creating a self fulfilling prophecy, let’s just put this thread to rest, overall it’s been interesting but I think it’s run its course.

OK I’m back off to calmer waters.

  • Tue, Jun 02, 2009 - 05:43pm

    #157
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    Re: North Korea renounces 1953 truce

My house, your house?  I’ve been following this thread on the sidelines for a while and I just think the territorial attitude toward this site is getting a little over done.  When someone signs up as a member and starts posting, they become a resident of THE house.  IMO, just because you’ve been here longer doesn’t give that person the right to say what can/should/will be appropriate at any time.  The house is owned by CM.  I’m a renter at $300 per year.  Some are not paying rent but are still allowed to live in certain parts of the house.  Just because he/she just moved in doesn’t mean that the person that has lived there longer can make the rules.  The owner makes the rules and has decided that his "hall monitors" can make the rules as well.  No one else.  If a residents tone makes you uncomfortable, move to another room or say what you don’t like.  Don’t try to pull rank though, because the only persons that have rank are CM and his "hall monitors".  This is not directed at anyone in particular but the "come into my house" are rediculous IMO.

Cheers!

  • Tue, Jun 02, 2009 - 07:02pm

    #159
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    Re: North Korea renounces 1953 truce

Back to business….an interesting article in Asia Times Online;

It’s not the bomb, it’s the funeral

Among Roh’s most vocal electoral

supporters were those who proclaimed themselves "anti-American" and claimed that the US-South Korean alliance propped up an elite establishment that institutionalized inequality and suppressed moves to unify Korea. Roh rejected those views, arguing that while the alliance may need modernization, it was a bedrock of South Korean foreign policy

and trade with the US was key to the country’s economic future. He sent South Korean troops to Iraq and Afghanistan and personally initiated the US-South Korea free-trade agreement which, if ratified, will open many of the country’s closed industries to American competition.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Korea/KF03Dg01.html

  • Tue, Jun 02, 2009 - 07:08pm

    #158
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    Re: North Korea renounces 1953 truce

LogansRun,

I agree that the "house" analogy is being overused. That said, there are a lot of standards that have been set simply by the conduct of the characters here. I don’t mind at all if someone wants to show up and upset the status quo regarding perspectives on opinions. But I am territorial about people who show up, insult others and create trouble because it’s part of their online persona.

Now, that said, I know I have no weight around here, and I present my opinions and thoughts as myself, speaking for myself.
I think of it more like a community rather than a house. I can stay in my house and offer nothing, if that’s what the preveiling mood is, and that’s what I’ve been doing since this conversation deteriorated and a heavy portion of the blame came down on me.

I’ve been a member of several forums over the years, and I’ve seen a lot of trolls come around and stir the pot just because it’s more fun than opening their mind to other opinions. That said, there are some opinions that are downright proposterous – the idea that small, despotic nations should have, or need nukes happens to be one of them.
Hell, I’d argue that no one needs nukes. If it were up to me, everything from the handgrenade to the nuke would be dismantled.

So it strikes me as sensible to challenge opinions like this that are waaaaay out on the fringes. 
Insofar as being a paying member; that’s nice, but not all of us are in a position where we can be paying members. The best I can do is spread the word about the crash course, share it with fellows, and hope that they "see the light". Perhaps one day we’ll develope into paying members. Until then, I’ll have to stand on the merits of my posts.

I subscribe and always will subscribe to the notion that if you do not have first hand experience on the subject, don’t talk about it. Listen. There are people here who DO have first hand experience on the subject, DO face deployment in the event that the DMZ goes hot  and WILL get caught away from a comfy living room with all the amenities.

Therefore, I find it insulting that someone would urge North Korea to take steps that could advertantly cause a conflict.

I’ll retire back to my corner for a bit, I’ve worked out my issues with A.P., and will hold my tongue until I have something intelligent to say.

Peace!

Aaron

  • Tue, Jun 02, 2009 - 07:26pm

    #160
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    Re: North Korea renounces 1953 truce

Another interesting article, reflecting a more British point of view:

 

From THE TIMES online

"Any such transition will be highly uncertain and will require powerful supporters. In the absence of the Dear Leader, the only power that will count may be that of raw military force.

It is easy to overlook another, and more obvious factor — public opinion. North Koreans are probably the most oppressed people on Earth, but they are not completely brainwashed.

Plenty of them will take a genuine, and uncynical pride, that their small country has matched in technology the superpowers of the world.

Finally there is the most obvious motivation if all — the military one. North Korea has been on a war footing all of Kim Jong Il’s life. Comparatively recently, President Bush pronounced his Government to be part of the Axis of Evil — shortly before invading Iraq. Whatever you think of Mr Kim, it is entirely understandable that he should want to protect himself as effectively as possible — and history suggests that nuclear weapons are a potent guarantee of being left alone."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article6374870.

  • Tue, Jun 02, 2009 - 07:28pm

    #153
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    Re: North Korea renounces 1953 truce

Nickbert, It is very important, as a guest in someone’s home, not to insult your host.  It is equally important not to insult new guests. The quality of the info I posted was pretty high. I spent about an hour, for example, wading through a lot of material, trying to find a site about the North Korean tunneling technology that I remembered from a few years back. I will accept some responsibility for landing us here, but there is no way I will accept that my contributions were anything but superior, as far as info regarding North Korea is concerned.

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