Native American Wisdom
[quote=David]Enough that I want to join you in moving on.[/quote]
I’m with ya.
After reading many of your post I find that we may be more alike in topics covered on CM than I thought (with the exception of the whole religion/spirituality subject). I will also admit that you are a heck of a lot further along and advanced in this preparation process than I. So I will try to be less of a ROCKHEAD and more of a sponge in the future.
Nice to meet you.
~ VF ~
P.S. … catch you soon V …
For as long as the grass will grow, for as long as the wind will blow for as long as the sky is blue………………….
That is why a thread like this has the potential to explore the root causes of our predicament. The major cause appears to me is that we as a culture do not realize the gift we have been given and fail to hold it sacred. Indigenous cultures have this built in.
Here are a few examples of such cultural wisdom:
~from Wikipedia under Iroquois
Women in society
When Americans and Canadians of European descent began to study Iroquois customs in the 18th and 19th centuries, they observed that women assumed a position in Iroquois society roughly equal in power to that of the men. Individual women could hold property including dwellings, horses and farmed land, and their property before marriage stayed in their possession without being mixed with that of their husband’s. The work of a woman’s hands was hers to do with as she saw fit. A husband lived in the longhouse of his wife’s family. A woman choosing to divorce a shiftless or otherwise unsatisfactory husband was able to ask him to leave the dwelling, taking any of his possessions with him. Women had responsibility for the children of the marriage, and children were educated by members of the mother’s family. The clans were matrilineal, that is, clan ties were traced through the mother’s line. If a couple separated, the woman kept the children. Violence against women by men was virtually unknown.
The chief of a clan could be removed at any time by a council of the mothers of that clan, and the chief’s sister was responsible for nominating his successor.
~from Wikipedia under Iroquois
The Iroquois culture was based on seventh generation sustainability.
I would love to discuss the implications of child custody alone.
The way child custody is determined in the U.S. …is through the courts. Each parent essentially tries to prove their individual competence while attacking the other parent’s competence. Even if the parents do not want to play this game…the court will determine who will pay for the child’s needs. This perpetuates greed and ideas about mental illness and the need for control and violence.
A mother is devastated when her child is stripped from her care. We need to honor the mother.
I do not deny that men may have a very different opinion about child custody rights…but remember we are contemplating into the seventh generation and the health of the entire culture.
I also came across this …Property in land: a passage-at-arms between Duke of Argyll and Henry George …this dialogue is so juicy, poignant, and engaging…..I hope you will check out this thought-provoking and passionate exchange centered around politics, law, land ownership, and individual rights.
Short quote from part II. The “Reduction to Inquiry.” p52:
The first universal perception of mankind is declared by the American Indian Chief, Black Hawk: “The Great Spirit has told me that land is not to be made property like other property. The earth is our mother!” ~Henry George Property in land: a passage-at-arms between Duke of Argyll and Henry George
The earth is our mother.
When an individual’s labor is taxed…and there are no jobs…and there are complete land monopolies…then what????
Well…1 in 8 Americans are on welfare.
We again appear to not be honoring mother earth. How can we teach our children about love for humanity, when the very industrial system we serve perpetuates poverty and leaves the impoverished with no other choice but to be humiliated and burdened with “help” that will further remove them from the land?
It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society. ~Jiddu Krishnamurti
Great post. It is nice to interact with adults here in the basement. There is debate about how much the Iroquois influenced the founders but there is no doubt they were very aware of them.
On the subject of becoming adult Joseph Campbell has a very good take on it. We have lost all of our initiations into the adult world. This is something every indigenous culture practiced.
Enjoy the clips
VF and V,
Excellent videos and clips!
I am chilled by how our current culture’s right of passage is war, drugs, or sex/parenthood. These mostly enslave awareness through the ego. The initiations practiced by indigenous cultures clearly illuminate and expand or transcend the ego. Individual will has overcome authority…fear can no longer hinder responsibility…power is a sacred gift.
Here is a wonderful excerpt on will and how this power emerges:
“In order to disobey, one must have the courage to be alone, to err and to sin. But courage is not enough. The capacity for courage depends on a person’s state of development. Only if a person has emerged from mother’s lap and father’s commands, only if he has emerged as a fully developed individual and has thus acquired the capacity to think and feel for himself, only then can he have the courage to say “no” to power, to disobey.” – Erich Fromm (‘On Disobedience and Other Essays’)
By [email protected]“>Frederick Mann
Â© Copyright 2002 Terra Libra Holdings ALL RIGHTS RESERVED
excerpt note: under Introduction, quoted from text following the heading See also Obedience, Punishment, and Power.
The will required for Seven generation sustainability is summed up in this quote:
“In every deliberation, we must consider the impact on the seventh generation… even if it requires having skin as thick as the bark of a pine.”
– Great Law of the Iroquois
Or as CM says…we must be “careful stewards”.
This is part of some research I was involved in almost 20 years ago. I tried to post it in the Valedictorian thread but could not get in. It fits here of course. This is a comparison of how Tech People (us) as opposed to Primitive people (them) handle various aspects of life such as politics, money etc. This one relates to art and education.
Separation of art from the rest of life. Artists are seen as special or talented people who create art for art’s sake.
Art integrated with all aspects of daily life. Everyone is seen as special and talented with something important to share or give.
Art is viewed as something to be collected and displayed more often than for daily use.
Art is embedded into fabric of daily existence.
Educational emphasis is on abstract knowledge and thinking
Educational emphasis is on gaining intimate knowledge of place and how to live harmoniously in it
Education is passed on by teachers and professors with one teacher instructing many children.
Education is passed on by elders usually one-to-one
Children are separated by age group
Children of all ages are taught together
Emphasis is on rote memorization and repetition
Emphasis is on learning how to learn.
Acquired knowledge is used for furthering personal position.
Acquired knowledge is used for community enhancement.
Wonderful research and post. This is why I don’t see wisdom or a future in tech.
Also, most tech was developed for war games.
Joseph Campbell is one of my favorite authors. Thanks for referencing his work. He was and is a gifted teacher.
Part 3 of Indigenous Native American Prophecy… talks about business and the global market for resources.
“There is a Natural Law of regeneration…if we honor the law.”
The Hopi elder talks to a CEO who is obligated to make profits for stockholders.
The Hopi elder asks the CEO, “When do you cease to be a CEO and become a Grandfather?”
The CEO falls silent…because that was a moral question.
“If you do not have a moral question in your governing process you don’t have a process that is going to survive…that’s the governing law.”