Native American Wisdom

Login or register to post comments Last Post 3950 reads   81 posts
Viewing 10 posts - 21 through 30 (of 81 total)
  • Sat, Jul 31, 2010 - 03:12pm

    #21
    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Oct 31 2017

    Posts: 1616

    count placeholder

    Re: Native American Wisdom?

[quote=ao]

V,

I enjoyed the videos and have long respected for Native American reference for the land and the earth that gives them life.  On the other hand, much of the contemporary “worship” of Native American ways is a bit overdone and suggestive of overcompensatory political correctness.  Just like every other group of people on the earth, Native Americans have committed their shares of wrongs.  Using the logic of the one Native American speaking on the video of how the white man is about to be “punished” for his wrongs, if Native Americans were so right in what they were doing, why were they “punished” by being decimated the influx of Europeans and the diseases they brought with them?

Native Americans were known to run buffaloes over bluffs and certainly, not all the meat, skin, bones, sinew, etc. were used in those instances.  Much was wasted.  So they were not always the most conservation minded. 

In the tally of whites killed vs. Indians killed in the centuries long Indian war(s) in North America, the Indians actually came out ahead in the body count.  At one point in the 1600s, they wiped out 10% of the entire white settler population in Connecticut.

In looking at events that culminated in the battle at Little Bighorn, most individuals are unaware of what precipitated Custer’s attack at the Battle of Washita and what transpired.  When Native Americans come and kill off the males, rape or enslave the women, and bash babies’ heads against trees, one tends to get a little testy.

One Native American chief had a nasty habit of declaring war on the whites every springtime and then flip-flopping and signing a truce every fall.  After all, food is tight in the winter and you can’t be wasting your and your ponies’ time and energy running around raiding when your belly is growling.  It took the U.S. government several years to figure this out though (they weren’t too swift back then either) before they finially put his shenanigans to a halt.  So much for honesty and integrity.  It wasn’t just white men that broke treaties. 

At Little Bighorn, the Lakota Sioux and Cheyenne weren’t defending their land against the U.S. cavalry.   They were defending land they had usurped from the Crow.  That is the reason why Crow scouts were fighting on Custer’s side.

It’s interesting to read the history of such conflicts as the French and Indian War in books such as White Devil.  The degree of savagery and brutality demonstrated by the Native Americans was horrendous.  There was even a northeastern U.S. tribe that regularly practiced cannabilism.  And before the white man came, the Native Americans regularly wreaked this savagery upon one another.  All was not a Pocahontas Disney type idyllic life of gathering round the campfire, singing kumbaya, and being one with nature.  

Similarly, when white men were captured in various campaigns of the Indian wars, they were often tortured for days on end with the most brutal methods imaginable, not only by the Native American warriors that captured them by also by Native American wives, mothers, daughters, and children.  That is, the whole tribe had a torture-fest, hooting and yelling at each cry of anguish of the tortured victims the way that contemporary Americans cheer at sporting events.  This is not to say that white men didn’t scalp Indians … they did … regularly.  But the tortures used by the Native Americans went far beyond what was done to them by the white man.

I could go on and on but the point is, we can learn from Native American ways but we also need to be realistic about things.  The Native Americans and their philosophy are far from perfect and the white man wasn’t the sole cause of their problems. 

[/quote]

ao

Thank you for the revisionist view of history

V

  • Sat, Jul 31, 2010 - 05:59pm

    #22
    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Oct 31 2017

    Posts: 1616

    count placeholder

    Re: Native American Wisdom?

[quote=V]

Thank you for the revisionist view of history

V

[/quote]

C’mon V, you can do better than that.

 Actually the politically correct views being presented now are the revisionist views. 

I was out at Little Bighorn 2 summers ago and shocked by what I saw and heard.  The memorial to the Native Americans there is bigger than the memorial to the troopers of the 7th Cavalry.  The displays talk about the character, virtue, honesty, integrity, etc. of the Sioux people and of Sitting Bull but say bupkis about Custer, his relatives who died there with him, or the 7th Cavalry.  I’m not saying Custer was a saint.  He had many faults and was certainly rash, impulsive, and an egomaniac but he was not evil.  However, I think the soldiers who died under him should be recognized with the same respect accorded to the Native Americans who fought and died there.  They were not.

Tom Custer, George’s brother, who is one of only 14 individuals to ever have won TWO Medals of Honor was not recognized for his bravery.  Myles Keogh, who was probably the person acknowledged by the Indians as the bravest person they ever saw in how he handled himself on the battlefield was similarly ignored.  I brought the situation to the attention of a ranger who chuckled, acknowledged the accuracy of my observations, and diplomatically stated that the views change with the political climate of the times.  I also found out that Little Bighorn Battlefield National Monument was being managed by a woman of Native American descent and the tone of the exhibit shows her bias in an unmistakeable manner.  I actually waged an e-mail letter campaign at various levels of the Federal government for months to get her to change her description of what occurred there to a less offensive one.  She eventually relented as was only right.

Your labelling what I wrote as “revisionist”  is disappointing and inaccurate. 

  • Sat, Jul 31, 2010 - 06:02pm

    #23
    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Oct 31 2017

    Posts: 1616

    count placeholder

    Re: Native American Wisdom

  • Sat, Jul 31, 2010 - 06:42pm

    #24
    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Oct 31 2017

    Posts: 1616

    count placeholder

    Re: Native American Wisdom

V,

Touche.  I LOLed.

  • Sat, Jul 31, 2010 - 11:16pm

    #25
    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Oct 31 2017

    Posts: 1616

    count placeholder

    Re: Native American Wisdom

 I wonder if people would stop to think that all of creation is a gift , not something they earned or something they deserve , would they treat it differently ? Would they cherish it more ?

  • Sun, Aug 01, 2010 - 04:24pm

    #26
    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Oct 31 2017

    Posts: 1616

    count placeholder

    Re: Native American Wisdom

[quote=Full Moon]

 I wonder if people would stop to think that all of creation is a gift , not something they earned or something they deserve , would they treat it differently ? Would they cherish it more ?

[/quote]

FM

Some of us do. It apparently is not enough of us though. That is why a thread like this has the potential to explore the root causes of our predicament.  The major cause appears to me is that we as a culture do not realize the gift we have been given and fail to hold it sacred. Indigenous cultures have this built in.

V

  • Sun, Aug 01, 2010 - 05:44pm

    #27
    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Oct 31 2017

    Posts: 1616

    count placeholder

    Re: Native American Wisdom

 

These showed up in my email right after the post I made up above. They seem apropos here.

V

from John Kenneth Galbraith:
Conventional wisdom
We associate truth with convenience, with what most closely accords with self-interest and personal well-being or promises best to avoid awkward effort or unwelcome dislocation of life. We also find highly acceptable what contributes most to self-esteem.
(Economic and social behavior) are complex, and to comprehend their character is mentally tiring. Therefore we adhere, as though to a raft, to those ideas which represent our understanding.

This is a nicely balanced comment by Max Lucado:
God loves you right where you are but he doesn’t want to leave you there.

a portion of a commencement address given by David Foster Wallace:
“Worship power, you will end up feeling weak and afraid, and you will need even more power over others to numb you to your own fear. Worship your intellect, being seen as smart, you will end up feeling stupid, a fraud, always on the verge of being found out. But the insidious thing about these forms of worship is not that they’re evil or sinful, it’s that they are unconscious. They are default settings.”
“They’re the kind of worship you just gradually slip into, day after day, getting more and more selective about what you see and how you measure value without ever being fully aware that that’s what you’re doing.
“And the so-called real world will not discourage you from operating on your default settings, because the so-called real world of men and money and power hums merrily along in a pool of fear and anger and frustration and craving and worship of self. Our own present culture has harnessed these forces in ways that have yielded extraordinary wealth and comfort and personal freedom. The freedom all to be lords of our tiny skull-sized kingdoms, alone at the center of all creation. This kind of freedom has much to recommend it. But of course there are all different kinds of freedom, and the kind that is most precious you will not hear much talk about in the great outside world of wanting and achieving. ….The really important kind of freedom involves attention and awareness and discipline, and being able truly to care about other people and to sacrifice for them over and over in myriad petty, unsexy ways every day.
“That is real freedom. That is being educated, and understanding how to think. The alternative is unconsciousness, the default setting, the rat race, the constant gnawing sense of having had, and lost, some infinite thing.”

Move To
  • Mon, Aug 02, 2010 - 08:58pm

    #28
    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Oct 31 2017

    Posts: 1616

    count placeholder

    Re: Native American Wisdom

[quote=ffshack165]

If you believe it was my intention to have V’s contribution removed you would be wrong.  I really didn’t even care if it was brought to your attention…never even crossed my mind…nor did flagging his post or getting it sent to the “Basement”.  I explained why I posted what I did to V above.  Hopefully this will remove any misunderstood pressure applied by me on you to spring into any further action against V’s post.

[/quote]

You wrote, under no obligation or pressure:

“Sorry but I just read the posting guidelines.  And after listening to the first linked video by V, I’m wondering how this is not considered “religious”?  Are the spiritual beliefs of the American Indian (or at least this one tribes beliefs) not considered religion or are they just exempt from the rule?  I would not bring this up except that I have seen many members treated badly for posting items relating to the prophecies that their religion refers to.  And usually a moderator makes a note on said post noting the “rules” or they just remove the post and/or comments all together.  

Double standard?…I hope not.”

You did more than ask a question; you declared a hope, with reference to the forum guidelines.  If only perception of the need for your too-late explanation had arrived before you clicked Post Comment the first time.

The lesson for each of us?  Stay on topic and aware of what one is doing.

  • Sat, Aug 07, 2010 - 07:20am

    #29
    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Oct 31 2017

    Posts: 1616

    count placeholder

    Re: Native American Wisdom

Deggleton,

“You wrote, under no obligation or pressure:” 

That would be correct and very observant of you.

“You did more than ask a question; you declared a hope, with reference to the forum guidelines.  If only perception of the need for your too-late explanation had arrived before you clicked Post Comment the first time.”

No apologies here…I said what I said and someone reacted.   No problem.  I explained my intentions to V and I believe he understands my intentions as do some of the other members posting on this thread.  To you or whoever reacted by flagging V’s post, I do think it would have been more constructive to have commented on my response first instead of setting into motion the actions of the Moderator.  But hey! That’s just me. 

My explanation to V and to the Moderator was in no way back tracking or craw fishing.  Explanations are frequently used in communications (conversations) to elaborate on one’s thoughts or to right a miscommunication.  Why?  Because we all don’t come from the same place and we all don’t think just alike.  And you are right…I did do more than ask a question.  I aired my thoughts on a negative that I see within the Forum Guidelines.   

“The lesson for each of us?  Stay on topic and aware of what one is doing.”

Maybe you have not read all of the responses to V’s post above…from the first one by Littleone all the way down here to V’s latest.  The thread has been successful at covering a few different topics.  I see no one else with this complaint and I believe all of us have been aware of what we have been doing.  Why do you feel the need to tell the rest of us what the “lesson for each of us” is?  Or maybe you’re just talking to me and that’s okay, but I have to tell you that it sounds a little pompous.

All that said I would just as soon enjoy going back to reading (and occasionally commenting on) the contributions made by the members of this site, hoping that maybe the guidelines will someday change to limit the bashing of members for their comments instead of limiting the comments of the members.  Did that make any sense? 

PEACE!

Shack

  • Mon, Aug 09, 2010 - 04:13pm

    #30
    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Oct 31 2017

    Posts: 1616

    count placeholder

    Re: Native American Wisdom

[quote=ffshack165]

Did that make any sense? 

[/quote]

Enough that I want to join you in moving on.

David

Viewing 10 posts - 21 through 30 (of 81 total)

Login or Register to post comments