Native American Wisdom

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  • Thu, Jul 29, 2010 - 04:12pm

    #11
    Peak Prosperity Admin

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    Re: Native American Wisdom

[quote=ffshack165]

V, perhaps I was not clear in my remarks….I did end up viewing the videos.  Not sure how many members that have posted a reply have actually viewed it though.   I appreciated the fact that you posted the info.  I did not flag it.  I simply asked a question because I have seen others trampled here at CM for posting something dealing with their “spirituality” and how it relates to their thoughts on the three E’s.  I find it rather humorous that some believe that American Indians did not or do not practice a religion.  Instead they are just “Spiritual”.  I’m not posting to argue with anyone over what they do and do not think deserves the title of “religion”.  The definition is fairly simple but for some a bias gets in the way. 

As much as I enjoy this site and the forums, it is still bothersome to see the hardcore bias that exists against some members posts because of their spiritual beliefs. It is the same as what you might see on a major media outlets forums, but without all of the cursing. 

While I can abide by the forum rules as they are, I would suggest that they go against the whole idea of community that is encouraged here on the CM website.  To so many folks that are spiritual their faith has a great deal to do with their perspective of this world we all share.  To shut out their thoughts because some may not agree with Religion, Belief, or Faith is narrow minded and doesn’t do much in the way of strengthening a Community.

Anyway V, no harm was meant towards you.  Had no problem viewing your post and will not have any problems with reading and viewing your future contributions.  Unless of course I’m run out of CM town by all the “open minded” citizens.

Smile

[/quote]

fshack i65

Thanks for taking the time to clarify.

Here is the REALLY stupid, ignorant, disjointed, hypocritical and damaging part of this. In the Essential Books part of this site ( which most people never look at and most never read the material) there is a book by Thom Hartmann called The Last Hours of Ancient Sunlight. It is a rather depressing tome until the last third when he gets into the idea that the thing which will see us through what is happening is a return to tribal society and modeling of our behavior on indigenous people. Now wouldn’t that be a fertile subject for a thread? Not here even when the book comes recommended by the owner of the site. Orwell was quite correct up is down , night is day , war is peace etc. etc. etc.

One of the things mentioned in the video is thinking about 7 generations before we do anything. I would settle for 2. The Native Americans populated the western hemisphere for 25, 000 years and when Columbus got here he could drink the water from every river and lake. Try that now.

Unfortunately the wisdom of indigenous people the world over will soon have to be rediscovered from scratch the hard way. 

This site is rapidly becoming a silly waste of my time.

The people of the book can have it

V

  • Thu, Jul 29, 2010 - 06:38pm

    #12
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    Re: Native American Wisdom

  I say  keep searching  and be very aware of those that  claim they have all the answers .     Many are being led astray  with false hope and promises ….  listening to those that tell them what they want to hear.  They will have an awakening too late and will grasp at anything that seems right .

     Those that truly seek unselfishly will find the way .

  • Thu, Jul 29, 2010 - 11:01pm

    #13
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    Re: Native American Wisdom

[quote=Full Moon]

  I say  keep searching  and be very aware of those that  claim they have all the answers .     Many are being led astray  with false hope and promises ….  listening to those that tell them what they want to hear.  They will have an awakening too late and will grasp at anything that seems right .

     Those that truly seek unselfishly will find the way .

[/quote]

Would you care to elaborate? Like how this applies to this thread?

V

  • Fri, Jul 30, 2010 - 02:08am

    #14
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    Re: Native American Wisdom

V,

The videos were what I expected they would be and I enjoyed them. The native Americans had flaws, but they had a reverence for the earth and how each thing  had it’s purpose in the whole.  Our sustenance comes from the earth and the sun and we have lost all sight of that.

7 generations? Our American culture today, in general, doesn’t seem to be aware of 7 months down the road.

 

  • Fri, Jul 30, 2010 - 03:41am

    #15
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    Re: Native American Wisdom

  As  I  see  the it Native American People in our Area  were  made promises , deceived ,and  trapped into a life of very little hope .   Look at where they are now  …. they are no more free ….   Sitting on reservations  with their spirit found in the bottom of a Bottle . I could be wrong about them in other states but here they are all hooked into running a casino … very far from the earth they  thought would keep them .

 Sorry  , V,    if I am misunderstanding the point here. I do march to a little different drum .  But I say we might  be  only a short step away from the same bondage.

 Full Moon

  • Fri, Jul 30, 2010 - 11:38pm

    #16
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    Re: Native American Wisdom

MarkM said:

7 generations? Our American culture today, in general, doesn’t seem to be aware of 7 months down the road.

I disagree…. they have paved the way for taxation for the next 7 generations. What are we at now….75-100 trillion in debt ? Sealed

  • Sat, Jul 31, 2010 - 01:32am

    #17
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    Re: Native American Wisdom

[quote=Full Moon]

  As  I  see  the it Native American People in our Area  were  made promises , deceived ,and  trapped into a life of very little hope .   Look at where they are now  …. they are no more free ….   Sitting on reservations  with their spirit found in the bottom of a Bottle . I could be wrong about them in other states but here they are all hooked into running a casino … very far from the earth they  thought would keep them .

 Sorry  , V,    if I am misunderstanding the point here. I do march to a little different drum .  But I say we might  be  only a short step away from the same bondage.

 Full Moon

[/quote]

The Native American people as you say were made promises at the point of a gun. They were made an offer they could not refuse. 400 years from now when our succeeding generations are reduced to a level much like those of the Native Americans today what will their existence look like. The Native Americans (and I am also speaking of indigenous people everywhere) are a shadow of what they once were. To get an idea of what the greatest holocaust in the history of the planet was like I suggest Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee by Dee Brown. Imagine everything you hold dear ripped from you in the space of one generation. The Cherokee dressed like the white man, had newspapers, businesses. churches, and for all intents and purposes were white men/women. Thanks to Andrew Jackson they were forced to leave everything and walk to Oklahoma. To this day it is hard to find a Cherokee that will carry a twenty dollar bill.

There are still incredible NA’S carrying on the traditional way of life. People like Leonard Crow Dog, Mary Thunder, Dennis Means etc. They still carry 25 millenia of wisdom in their DNA. It is that wisdom which we will need as we power down. It is that wisdom which is on display in the video on view in this basement. Why is it here because data trumps wisdom here on CM.

And why do I waste my time because I get  PM’s telling me to keep on and if I can affect even one person it will be worth the effort.

V

  • Sat, Jul 31, 2010 - 01:53pm

    #18
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    Re: Native American Wisdom

   I believe someone nabbed you because it is so near the same message of the Bible .  The very message that  has been distorted  , confused  and man has used for their own gain .

       It is a spiritual battle for the mind .     Eventually there are those that hear and those that are given over to a reprobate mind .  

 

  There will be a cleansing and it will be by fire  .  

  • Sat, Jul 31, 2010 - 02:36pm

    #19
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    Native American Wisdom?

V,

I enjoyed the videos and have long respected for Native American reference for the land and the earth that gives them life.  On the other hand, much of the contemporary “worship” of Native American ways is a bit overdone and suggestive of overcompensatory political correctness.  Just like every other group of people on the earth, Native Americans have committed their shares of wrongs.  Using the logic of the one Native American speaking on the video of how the white man is about to be “punished” for his wrongs, if Native Americans were so right in what they were doing, why were they “punished” by being decimated the influx of Europeans and the diseases they brought with them?

Native Americans were known to run buffaloes over bluffs and certainly, not all the meat, skin, bones, sinew, etc. were used in those instances.  Much was wasted.  So they were not always the most conservation minded. 

In the tally of whites killed vs. Indians killed in the centuries long Indian war(s) in North America, the Indians actually came out ahead in the body count.  At one point in the 1600s, they wiped out 10% of the entire white settler population in Connecticut.

In looking at events that culminated in the battle at Little Bighorn, most individuals are unaware of what precipitated Custer’s attack at the Battle of Washita and what transpired.  When Native Americans come and kill off the males, rape or enslave the women, and bash babies’ heads against trees, one tends to get a little testy.

One Native American chief had a nasty habit of declaring war on the whites every springtime and then flip-flopping and signing a truce every fall.  After all, food is tight in the winter and you can’t be wasting your and your ponies’ time and energy running around raiding when your belly is growling.  It took the U.S. government several years to figure this out though (they weren’t too swift back then either) before they finially put his shenanigans to a halt.  So much for honesty and integrity.  It wasn’t just white men that broke treaties. 

At Little Bighorn, the Lakota Sioux and Cheyenne weren’t defending their land against the U.S. cavalry.   They were defending land they had usurped from the Crow.  That is the reason why Crow scouts were fighting on Custer’s side.

It’s interesting to read the history of such conflicts as the French and Indian War in books such as White Devil.  The degree of savagery and brutality demonstrated by the Native Americans was horrendous.  There was even a northeastern U.S. tribe that regularly practiced cannabilism.  And before the white man came, the Native Americans regularly wreaked this savagery upon one another.  All was not a Pocahontas Disney type idyllic life of gathering round the campfire, singing kumbaya, and being one with nature.  

Similarly, when white men were captured in various campaigns of the Indian wars, they were often tortured for days on end with the most brutal methods imaginable, not only by the Native American warriors that captured them by also by Native American wives, mothers, daughters, and children.  That is, the whole tribe had a torture-fest, hooting and yelling at each cry of anguish of the tortured victims the way that contemporary Americans cheer at sporting events.  This is not to say that white men didn’t scalp Indians … they did … regularly.  But the tortures used by the Native Americans went far beyond what was done to them by the white man.

I could go on and on but the point is, we can learn from Native American ways but we also need to be realistic about things.  The Native Americans and their philosophy are far from perfect and the white man wasn’t the sole cause of their problems. 

  • Sat, Jul 31, 2010 - 03:04pm

    #20
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    Re: Native American Wisdom

[quote=ffshack165]

V, perhaps I was not clear in my remarks….I did end up viewing the videos.  Not sure how many members that have posted a reply have actually viewed it though.   I appreciated the fact that you posted the info.  I did not flag it.  I simply asked a question because I have seen others trampled here at CM for posting something dealing with their “spirituality” and how it relates to their thoughts on the three E’s.  I find it rather humorous that some believe that American Indians did not or do not practice a religion.  Instead they are just “Spiritual”.  I’m not posting to argue with anyone over what they do and do not think deserves the title of “religion”.  The definition is fairly simple but for some a bias gets in the way. 

As much as I enjoy this site and the forums, it is still bothersome to see the hardcore bias that exists against some members posts because of their spiritual beliefs. It is the same as what you might see on a major media outlets forums, but without all of the cursing. 

While I can abide by the forum rules as they are, I would suggest that they go against the whole idea of community that is encouraged here on the CM website.  To so many folks that are spiritual their faith has a great deal to do with their perspective of this world we all share.  To shut out their thoughts because some may not agree with Religion, Belief, or Faith is narrow minded and doesn’t do much in the way of strengthening a Community.

Anyway V, no harm was meant towards you.  Had no problem viewing your post and will not have any problems with reading and viewing your future contributions.  Unless of course I’m run out of CM town by all the “open minded” citizens.

Smile

[/quote]

ffshack165,

I hear ya.

Just to clue you in, in these times and this place, spiritual is acceptable but religious is not.  Less organized spirituality is better than more organized spirituality (because of the danger that organized spirituality will be recognized as religion and, ipso facto, less organized spirituality may come to be recognized as less organized religion).  Belief systems are wrong if they’re encased in orthodox religion but acceptable if they’re packaged in a loose spirituality.  Religions are bad, especially Christianity.  We can say that out loud because there is no longer any danger that the followers of  that religious persuasion will come after you en masse and take off your head.  Islam may be bad (at least the radical elements) but we certainly don’t want to say that out loud because there is still the very real danger that the followers of that religion will come after you and take off your head.  Buddhism’s probably OK … they tend not to bother you by knocking at your door with religious literature or by taking off your head.  Zoroastranianism’s fine because no one knows what the hell it’s about.  Agnosticism’s OK because if you can’t pin them down to anything, how can you tell if they’re right, wrong, or indifferent.  And atheism’s OK because no one realizes that the belief in nothing is still a belief in something. 

Just thought you’d appreciate these guidelines.

And for the uninformed …. <SARCASM ALERT!!!!!!!>   

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